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Post by lukedalton on Nov 17, 2019 16:18:50 GMT
reddawnwwiii.fandom.com/wiki/European_Union (different from 2011 is the fact that all the associated nations, except Morocco, had become full member in the last year expansion formalizated by the second Treaty of Rome and the UK had become a formal associated member) The 1 december 2019 at midnight a wall of light surround the european continent and part of North Africa, the phenomenon lasted just 10 second and once finished all seemed normal; at least for the first minutes but soon something of very strange happened...all comunication with the nations of the European Union have ceased, any attempt to contact the various embassy and Nato bases has been fruitless. Only later in the morning, official contact happened between a multinational diplomatic contingent formed by diplomatic personeel stationated in Switzerland and their counterpart; in an emergency session of the UN it was revelead that the nation forming the European Union plus Moldova, Morocco, Iceland and Norway has been substitued with another version of them; this 'new' nations claim to form a supranational organization also named European Union with a single currency...but a somewhat different one. This new EU it's not only a littel larger but she also seem to have an expanded role in foreign and defence policy, basically becoming a mix of OTL EU and OTL NATO. Differently by OTL, euroskeptism is more a fringe position but there are a lot of political protest regarding immigration from the Middle East due to the recent wars there. Tech is more or less on par with OTL but with some subtle difference (ex Blu-ray never happened and the current standard is SD-DVD aka an enchanced version of HD-DVD) Military the EU spent more or less 2% of any member for defence purpose, to make the process more efficient a common procurament system has been created. Politically, well it's more or less like our OTL EU but less military shy, more assertive and currently not with good relations with the USA (think OTL USA with OTL China). All the military and civilian personell not beloging to the EU has been transported back in their country of origin and all the EU extraeuropean territories has come with them. What will happen and what will be our world reaction
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James G
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Post by James G on Nov 17, 2019 16:56:16 GMT
That is a very different EU indeed. It's WW3 history mentioned in the wiki piece follows Matt Wiser's Red Dawn universe, yes?
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Post by lukedalton on Nov 17, 2019 17:08:21 GMT
That is a very different EU indeed. It's WW3 history mentioned in the wiki piece follows Matt Wiser's Red Dawn universe, yes? Yes, it's more or less the same; the difference is that in my version things between the USA and Europe are not warm, sure it's not at cold war level but there are problem between them, much due to general feeling of betrayal from the war and a 'with us or against us' attitude of the USA |
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Post by lukedalton on Dec 8, 2019 10:53:21 GMT
Just some more details about this EU: Space assets: ESA operate a space station www.astronautix.com/e/esamtff-derdspacestation.html (more or less an upragded mod.A), a couple of spaceplane (Hermes and Columbus) www.astronautix.com/h/hermes.html kept udpdated, main heavy launch vehicle is Ariane 5ME en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ariane_5#Ariane_5_ME, Galileo Navsat constellation (not capable of working with the american GPS system due to political and strategic reason and because the USA kept Selective Avaibility). Military assets: slightly more armed of OTL EU, she maintain common procurament (except usually France and UK that for many things go alone) and for this reason the Leopard 2 is basically the continental MBT (but coexist with Leclerc and Challenger 2), the F-35 project never happened or at least it never had european cooperation (there was an attempt but quickly devolved in shouting about the cost and the problems) so Italy, UK and Spain financed a much more cheaper upgraded and rebuild version of the Harrier, the EU operate 9 aircraft carriers (2 French CTOL of the Charles De Gaulle class, 3 UK VTOL of the Queen Elizabeth class, 2 Italian VTOL of the Cavour class and 2 Spanish VTOL of the Juan Carlos I class). Nuclear weapons are at level of OTL cold war, with system like the French Hades being in service and an european equivalent of the NATO sharing program in existence Energy politics: rely heavily in nuclear (first third generation nuclear power plant had been opened a couple of years ago in France) and renewable assets due to the experience during WWIII. odds and bits: things like Blu ray don't exist but Advanced HDVD had taken their place; the final chapter of the original Star Wars trilogy is called 'Revenge of the Jedi' and there are no Ewock but Wookie, Red Dawn is a tv miniseries on the vein of Band of Brothers but for WWIII and Amerika is a controversial miniseries that depict an alternate history earth where the Soviet had won the war. Political: internal problem to the EU are apparentely similar to our, there is an immigration crisis in the mediterrean area due to the various conflict, some tension with the american due to commercial but also strategic reason, tension with a great power due to interference on the political election in various member state and financial support to antiEU parties (slightly more fringe ITTL)...again the USA. There was a great recession that had caused some tension in the EU and even if the economic situation is now resolved, some scar still exist (expecially in Greece and in a minor mode Italy) |
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James G
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Post by James G on Dec 8, 2019 19:42:53 GMT
Would the EU have an anti-missile shield in this scenario? Nuclear attacks have taken place against cities in this scenario's past. I think that would have gotten many people past the fear over ABM defences now that the effects of a nuclear strike on an urban area has been shown for all the horrors that it will bring.
I ask because I wonder how the OTL America and Russia will react to such a thing: it would make the EU a real superpower in their eyes because, looking from the outside, the alliance could be seen as weak, but the ability to stop missile attacks would change that perception.
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Post by lukedalton on Dec 9, 2019 0:06:02 GMT
Would the EU have an anti-missile shield in this scenario? Nuclear attacks have taken place against cities in this scenario's past. I think that would have gotten many people past the fear over ABM defences now that the effects of a nuclear strike on an urban area has been shown for all the horrors that it will bring. I ask because I wonder how the OTL America and Russia will react to such a thing: it would make the EU a real superpower in their eyes because, looking from the outside, the alliance could be seen as weak, but the ability to stop missile attacks would change that perception.
The EU (UK included) like OTL had developed the Aster missile family, ITTL they have already initiated the deployment of a version capable of ABM capacity and a 3000km range and the MEADS aka Robin the european knock...ehm version of the Patriot, that's basically a missile (and surrounding system) veeery similar to the Patriot with slightly upgraded perfomance and built only with European component; yes there was a little diplomatic ruckus about that but the USA needed the loan from Europe and a lot of tech reached the other part of the ocean (plus many technicians had gone in Europe due the more calm political climate and better job possibility). While ABM system are much more accepted and developed, the geographical position of the EU mean that it's more at risk of attack by SLBM and IRBM than ICBM (in all honestly everyone think that there is a massive exchange, no serious defense is possible and the only option left is bring with them as much enemies as possible, for this reason the Anglo-French nuclear submarines force had the USA cities as target)
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Post by lukedalton on Feb 1, 2020 19:56:09 GMT
What will be Putin reaction? Now at his border there is a conglomerate of nations that are really not friendly with a strongman lead and aggressive Russia, after all the sheninghan of WW3 and later the end of the Siberian communist holdout; it's very probable that Ukraine had a new best friend now
Plus there is the economic consequences, from one side the EU had lost (at least temporary) his chain of supply but on the bright side she have at least 3/4 months of strategic material supply (more if rationated) and frankly is more energy independent than OTL EU relying heavyly on the nuclear power due to the oil shortage of WW3. On the other side, many nations had lost one of their most important commercial patner adn due to what happened to China and the general lack of globalization in her original TL, a lot of the manufactoring capacity had not been exported outside the EU
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James G
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Post by James G on Feb 1, 2020 20:25:06 GMT
What will be Putin reaction? Now at his border there is a conglomerate of nations that are really not friendly with a strongman lead and aggressive Russia, after all the sheninghan of WW3 and later the end of the Siberian communist holdout; it's very probable that Ukraine had a new best friend now Plus there is the economic consequences, from one side the EU had lost (at least temporary) his chain of supply but on the bright side she have at least 3/4 months of strategic material supply (more if rationated) and frankly is more energy independent than OTL EU relying heavyly on the nuclear power due to the oil shortage of WW3. On the other side, many nations had lost one of their most important commercial patner adn due to what happened to China and the general lack of globalization in her original TL, a lot of the manufactoring capacity had not been exported outside the EU Putin will want to make friends. That will not be easy, very hard in fact, but there will have to be an effort to try. A power like this on its border is too much for Russia to ignore. Attempts at friendship are a smarter move than quickly seeking antagonism. If the former fails, Putin can fall back on the latter but it costs little to try to establish some sort of relations - even cold, distant & wary ones are better than pointing guns at each other as an opening more. |
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Post by lukedalton on Feb 1, 2020 20:54:06 GMT
What will be Putin reaction? Now at his border there is a conglomerate of nations that are really not friendly with a strongman lead and aggressive Russia, after all the sheninghan of WW3 and later the end of the Siberian communist holdout; it's very probable that Ukraine had a new best friend now Plus there is the economic consequences, from one side the EU had lost (at least temporary) his chain of supply but on the bright side she have at least 3/4 months of strategic material supply (more if rationated) and frankly is more energy independent than OTL EU relying heavyly on the nuclear power due to the oil shortage of WW3. On the other side, many nations had lost one of their most important commercial patner adn due to what happened to China and the general lack of globalization in her original TL, a lot of the manufactoring capacity had not been exported outside the EU Putin will want to make friends. That will not be easy, very hard in fact, but there will have to be an effort to try. A power like this on its border is too much for Russia to ignore. Attempts at friendship are a smarter move than quickly seeking antagonism. If the former fails, Putin can fall back on the latter but it costs little to try to establish some sort of relations - even cold, distant & wary ones are better than pointing guns at each other as an opening more. Sure, it's that his background and his actions will make the effort an uphill battle, but at least the EU is not the ITTL USA (that are on a ìfire nuke first and forget the question' MO when they deal with aggressive Russia) and while very wary they will not attack first or dismiss any overture but the real roadblock will be Ukraine, i doubt that this EU will want a situation that can explode in a major conflict in any minute at his border (or near it) so a mutual beneficial agreement will be searched (even demanded in exchange of trade agreement and non aggression pact). The other nation that will have problem it's probably Israel, ITTL (as OTL) it's considered one of America staunchest allies and frankly relations are poor between her and the EU (even if there are a lot of trade as OTL) due to the conflict with arab that more or less are on the european area of influence
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