lordroel
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Post by lordroel on Mar 6, 2020 19:28:32 GMT
Well NATO is now at the Soviet border. So it seems. I wonder if this could trigger alarm in the Kremlin, enough to build up to an overreaction on the USSR's part? Alarm, it could be World War III, the Soviet Union now having NATO troops at its border, no contact with its forces in the Warsaw Pact, for them its nightmare scenario.
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Zyobot
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Post by Zyobot on Mar 6, 2020 21:06:15 GMT
So it seems. I wonder if this could trigger alarm in the Kremlin, enough to build up to an overreaction on the USSR's part? Alarm, it could be World War III, the Soviet Union now having NATO troops at its border, no contact with its forces in the Warsaw Pact, for them its nightmare scenario. So, mass-death scenario, then? Or, maybe more like James G’s Eagle Guardian TL (except with a more heavily armed, but less technologically advanced Russia as part of the equation)?
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Post by lordroel on Mar 6, 2020 21:08:57 GMT
Alarm, it could be World War III, the Soviet Union now having NATO troops at its border, no contact with its forces in the Warsaw Pact, for them its nightmare scenario. So, mass-death scenario, then? Or, maybe more like James G’s Eagle Guardian TL (except with a more heavily armed, but less technologically advanced Russia as part of the equation)? Well how do you think a 1980s Soviet Union will react to this new situation.
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Post by Zyobot on Mar 6, 2020 22:59:11 GMT
So, mass-death scenario, then? Or, maybe more like James G’s Eagle Guardian TL (except with a more heavily armed, but less technologically advanced Russia as part of the equation)? Well how do you think a 1980s Soviet Union will react to this new situation. Good point. If I didn’t know better, I’d assume that the Soviets would take a much more cautious approach than slam the nuke button within moments of their arrival, so to speak. But thus far, the consensus here, however anecdotal, seems to be otherwise.
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stevep
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Post by stevep on Mar 7, 2020 11:16:17 GMT
Well how do you think a 1980s Soviet Union will react to this new situation. Good point. If I didn’t know better, I’d assume that the Soviets would take a much more cautious approach than slam the nuke button within moments of their arrival, so to speak. But thus far, the consensus here, however anecdotal, seems to be otherwise.
Hopefully you would be right. They would be highly confused and concerned about the loss of all contact with E Europe and their large forces based there. Also NATO has lost the three Baltic states and the associated forces there. Furthermore the Central Asian and Caucasus states are now back in 1980. As such a lot of confusion is going to occur and mistakes could happen but hopefully caution would win out.
In one way its a very good position for a conventional war by the Soviets as NATO has run down its forces so much and while their lost their front line forces in the former WP states they still have massive reserves, albeit largely 2nd and 3rd line units while would take some time to deploy. On the other hand they probably won't realise this quickly, which gives NATO some time to respond and also they have a lot further to go to reach the Channel and while NATO forces are a lot smaller than in 1980 they are generally a lot more effective.
Another issue which might cause caution in Moscow would be China, which is a lot more powerful than the relatively backwards state in 1980, both militarily and economically. That's going to be a shock to them and very worrying.
Of course another factor if it happened to OTL now is the corona virus which would further complicate matters. Moscow might want to clamp down on any contact to avoid infection but are likely to have problems with older issues such as AIDS.
Steve
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Post by Zyobot on Mar 7, 2020 18:48:16 GMT
‘2020 Western Canada To 1960’. As in, the region depicted in this map from Wikimedia:
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lordroel
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Post by lordroel on Mar 7, 2020 18:56:16 GMT
‘2020 Western Canada To 1960’. As in, the region depicted in this map from Wikimedia: Well they might be two separate Canada's.
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Post by Zyobot on Mar 7, 2020 19:06:49 GMT
‘2020 Western Canada To 1960’. As in, the region depicted in this map from Wikimedia: Well they might be two separate Canada's. Yeah, I'll bet. Similar to how sections of 2020 and 1960 America would clash too often to reunite easily, I assume that 2020 western Canada would want out (with more than a few downtimer Canadians being receptive to that themselves). In addition to the various events that have taken place over the sixty years since 1960, news of Quebec's Quiet Revolution will also emerge, which I'm guessing that more religious elements of the country would want to stamp out--especially once they see how secular uptimer Canada has become.
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Post by Zyobot on Mar 8, 2020 21:44:01 GMT
'2012 US And China To 1952'.
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Post by Zyobot on Mar 9, 2020 23:38:59 GMT
'General Mattis SI To General Patton'.
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lordroel
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Post by lordroel on Mar 10, 2020 3:52:05 GMT
'General Mattis SI To General Patton'. I think it will be 1941 when Mattis goes into Patton body as 1945 would be to late i assume.
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Post by Zyobot on Mar 10, 2020 15:42:52 GMT
'General Mattis SI To General Patton'. I think it will be 1941 when Mattis goes into Patton body as 1945 would be to late i assume. Yeah, a time like 1941 would probably be best. Considering that Mattis is a) a retired general himself and b) more knowledgeable than most about military history, I think he'd do decently for himself. Even if he needs time to get accustomed to a an America without the permissive society, civil rights or digital technology (though, since he's turning seventy this year, he's old enough to remember that sort of world anyway). Due to his uptimer knowledge, I'm wondering if he could revolutionize tactics, strategy and maybe even military technology (i.e. accelerating the development and deployment of attack and troop-transport helicopters, even if they're not useable in time for World War Two)?
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lordroel
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Post by lordroel on Mar 10, 2020 15:52:20 GMT
I think it will be 1941 when Mattis goes into Patton body as 1945 would be to late i assume. Due to his uptimer knowledge, I'm wondering if he could revolutionize tactics, strategy and maybe even military technology (i.e. accelerating the development and deployment of attack and troop-transport helicopters, even if they're not useable in time for World War Two)? Well he knows the battle that will come, so that will be a advantage.
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Zyobot
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Post by Zyobot on Mar 10, 2020 17:06:00 GMT
Due to his uptimer knowledge, I'm wondering if he could revolutionize tactics, strategy and maybe even military technology (i.e. accelerating the development and deployment of attack and troop-transport helicopters, even if they're not useable in time for World War Two)? Well he knows the battle that will come, so that will be a advantage. Are you referring to Pearl Harbor specifically, or other significant battles that take place over the next few years? Or both? Because even with Mattis-Patton potentially requesting an audience with FDR to persuade him to stop the Axis, and the US performing better in initial engagements than it did IOTL, that hindsight will probably become less and less useful as the resulting butterflies take flight. Then the timeline that Mattis has been sent to will have changed appropriately, though maybe grander-scale events like the Cold War could be better handled thanks to his foreknowledge, i.e. taking up a harder line against Soviet Russia as it tries to incorporate Eastern Europe into the communist bloc.
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lordroel
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Post by lordroel on Mar 10, 2020 17:18:09 GMT
Well he knows the battle that will come, so that will be a advantage. Are you referring to Pearl Harbor specifically, or other significant battles that take place over the next few years? Or both? Because even with Mattis-Patton potentially requesting an audience with FDR to persuade him to stop the Axis, and the US performing better in initial engagements than it did IOTL, that hindsight will probably become less and less useful as the resulting butterflies take flight. Then the timeline that Mattis has been sent to will have changed appropriately, though maybe grander-scale events like the Cold War could be better handled thanks to his foreknowledge, i.e. taking up a harder line against Soviet Russia as it tries to incorporate Eastern Europe into the communist bloc. Well it depends, if he woke up in 1940 then he could use his information as long as it last (due to butterflies of course) to prevent ore change things.
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