oscssw
Senior chief petty officer
Posts: 955
Likes: 1,557
|
Post by oscssw on Apr 24, 2023 12:45:06 GMT
Day 9 of the United States Civil War, April 20th 1861LouisianaThe steamship STAR OF THE WEST, which had been seized by Confederate authorities at Indianola, Texas on April 17th sailed into New Orleans. Governor of Louisiana, Thomas Overton Moore changed its name to CSS ST PHILP. MarylandThe training ship USS CONSTITUTION moored in the Severn River off Annapolis, was towed by the steamer USS MARYLAND into the Chesapeake Bay with troops of the 8th Massachusetts Infantry regiment aboard. This action prevented the Confederates from seizing the historic warship, usually known as “Old Ironsides”. Massachusetts Militia, Brigadier-General Benjamin Franklin Butler brought the 4th Massachusetts Militia Regiment (United States) into Annapolis, ready for transportation to Fort Monroe. A pro-Confederate mob began a week of burning bridges of the Pennsylvania Northern & Philadelphia Railroad near Baltimore at the instigation of the Mayor, to impede the movement of Union forces across the state. MissouriAn armed secessionist mob seized the United States Arsenal in Liberty, increasing United States concerns about the security of the state. New YorkSix hundred kegs of gunpowder bound for New Orleans, Louisiana, were seized by the US Marshal before they could be shipped. TexasThe United States coast survey schooner TWILIGHT was seized by Confederates at Aransas. VirginiaUnited States Army, Colonel Robert E. Lee learns of Virginia’s secession, and while friends and family gathered at the Arlington House to discuss the matter, Lee retired alone to the garden to consider what he would do. He later returned home and paced in his room for several hours. Early next morning, Lee wrote his letter of resignation to General-in-Chief Scott, after 32 years of service in the United States Army. It began: “Sir–I have the honour to tender the resignation of my Commission as Colonel of the 1st Regt of Cavalry.” Lee explained: “Since my interview with you on the 18th instant I have felt that I ought not longer retain my commission in the Army. I therefore tender my resignation, which I request you will recommend for acceptance. It would have been presented at once, but for the struggle it has cost me to separate myself from a service to which I have devoted all the best years of my life & all the ability I possessed…”In Guyandotte, a West Virginia meeting calls for the state to approve the actions of the Virginia legislature. The screw steamer USS ANACOSTIA under the command of United States Navy, Lieutenant Thomas S Fillebrown, with its crew augmented by 20 United States Marines from the Washington Navy Yard, was ordered to patrol off Kettle Bottom Shoals, to prevent the obstruction of the channel by Confederate forces. United States Navy, Captain Charles S McCauley gave orders to scuttle the ships in the Gosport Navy Yard and destroy its facilities. Receiving ship USS PENNSYLVANIA, sloop USS GERMANTOWN, 54 guns sailing frigate USS COLOMBIA and the brig USS DOLPHIN were burned to the water’s edge. The out of service 74-gun ship of the line USS DELAWARE, out of service 92-gun ship of the line USS COLUMBUS, sloop of war USS PLYMOUTH and the steam frigate USS MERRIMACK were burned and sunk. The old frigate USS UNITED STATES was abandoned. Sloop-of-war USS PAWNEE and the tug YANKEE towing the 50-gun sailing frigate USS CUMBERLAND escaped. The destruction of the navy yard was mostly ineffective; in particular, the large dry dock there was relatively undamaged and was soon restored. Illustratio: Burning of the U.S. ship of the line PENNSYLVANIA, 140 guns: and other vessels, at the Gosport Navy Yard, Norfolk, Va. on the night of April 20th 1861Illustration: USS MERRIMACK aflame during the burning of the Norfolk Navy Yard, 20 April 1861
I came to this thread late, as usual, and find it fascinating BZ (well done) my good friend THE ROCK. IMO, FWIW, the loss of Gosport materially contributed to the prolongation of the ongoing blood bath we call the American Civil War. It should have been held, at all costs. The fact it was not says a lot about "The fog of war", the chaos that accompanies the "early days" for the side unprepared for war and the fact Navy bureaucracy is just as bad as any other until the Warriors replace the peacetime politicians in Uniform and clean house. It often takes the infusion of wartime only civilians to sort out the mess.
Despite the conversion of Merrimac to the ironclad Virginia the ships lost at the yard were of no real value. Merrimac herself was laid up in "Ordinary" because her engines were an utter disaster and would give the new crews hell for her entire life. Six old sailing vessels were serving as receiving ships or were just laid up in reserve, included were the USS Pennsylvania, the largest sailing ship built in the United States, and the 65-year-old frigate United States, sister ship to “Old Ironsides". The ship-of-the-line New York, still lay on the building stocks, not having been completed since work had started in 1820.
Five relatively new ships were also in the yard, including Germantown, Dolphin and Plymouth, undergoing repair. Four were sailing ships, similar to the types that would form the basis of the Civil War blockading fleet. One sloop and one brig were in ordinary, laid up in reserve, but not decommissioned.
That said, the drydock, foundry and machine shops of the yard were of great value to the Confederacy.
However, IMO, FWIW, the number of guns captured at Norfolk/Gosport were the greatest loss to the Union and the greatest asset for the Rebs. Despite the best efforts 100 Cumberland sailors, an hour only allowed for very limited the damage to the ordanance stored in the yard. They managed to spike many of the guns and temporarily make them UNserviceable. No serious damage was done to the state of the art excellent Dahlgren guns and the still very useful older heavy weapons in the arsenal.
These heavy guns provided the majority of coastal defense AND heavy siege guns for the entire Confederacy. The Union lost 1,198, serviceable guns including 803 of various types of naval guns. Of these guns, 533 were quickly dispatched to locations throughout the Confederacy. Between 1,043 and 1,099 guns of all types were cast at Tredegar during the war, and 1,050 were cast at all other Confederate foundries (all but 33 of these last being field pieces). Given these numbers, it appears that over one-third of all Confederate cannons were those captured at the Yard, and likely a majority of all Confederate naval and heavy guns. I expect though, that at least half of Tredegar's output was field-pieces... that assumption would mean 580 heavy guns cast new versus 803 captured at Norfolk.
|
|
lordroel
Administrator
Member is Online
Posts: 64,819
Likes: 45,954
|
Post by lordroel on Apr 24, 2023 13:13:50 GMT
Day 9 of the United States Civil War, April 20th 1861LouisianaThe steamship STAR OF THE WEST, which had been seized by Confederate authorities at Indianola, Texas on April 17th sailed into New Orleans. Governor of Louisiana, Thomas Overton Moore changed its name to CSS ST PHILP. MarylandThe training ship USS CONSTITUTION moored in the Severn River off Annapolis, was towed by the steamer USS MARYLAND into the Chesapeake Bay with troops of the 8th Massachusetts Infantry regiment aboard. This action prevented the Confederates from seizing the historic warship, usually known as “Old Ironsides”. Massachusetts Militia, Brigadier-General Benjamin Franklin Butler brought the 4th Massachusetts Militia Regiment (United States) into Annapolis, ready for transportation to Fort Monroe. A pro-Confederate mob began a week of burning bridges of the Pennsylvania Northern & Philadelphia Railroad near Baltimore at the instigation of the Mayor, to impede the movement of Union forces across the state. MissouriAn armed secessionist mob seized the United States Arsenal in Liberty, increasing United States concerns about the security of the state. New YorkSix hundred kegs of gunpowder bound for New Orleans, Louisiana, were seized by the US Marshal before they could be shipped. TexasThe United States coast survey schooner TWILIGHT was seized by Confederates at Aransas. VirginiaUnited States Army, Colonel Robert E. Lee learns of Virginia’s secession, and while friends and family gathered at the Arlington House to discuss the matter, Lee retired alone to the garden to consider what he would do. He later returned home and paced in his room for several hours. Early next morning, Lee wrote his letter of resignation to General-in-Chief Scott, after 32 years of service in the United States Army. It began: “Sir–I have the honour to tender the resignation of my Commission as Colonel of the 1st Regt of Cavalry.” Lee explained: “Since my interview with you on the 18th instant I have felt that I ought not longer retain my commission in the Army. I therefore tender my resignation, which I request you will recommend for acceptance. It would have been presented at once, but for the struggle it has cost me to separate myself from a service to which I have devoted all the best years of my life & all the ability I possessed…”In Guyandotte, a West Virginia meeting calls for the state to approve the actions of the Virginia legislature. The screw steamer USS ANACOSTIA under the command of United States Navy, Lieutenant Thomas S Fillebrown, with its crew augmented by 20 United States Marines from the Washington Navy Yard, was ordered to patrol off Kettle Bottom Shoals, to prevent the obstruction of the channel by Confederate forces. United States Navy, Captain Charles S McCauley gave orders to scuttle the ships in the Gosport Navy Yard and destroy its facilities. Receiving ship USS PENNSYLVANIA, sloop USS GERMANTOWN, 54 guns sailing frigate USS COLOMBIA and the brig USS DOLPHIN were burned to the water’s edge. The out of service 74-gun ship of the line USS DELAWARE, out of service 92-gun ship of the line USS COLUMBUS, sloop of war USS PLYMOUTH and the steam frigate USS MERRIMACK were burned and sunk. The old frigate USS UNITED STATES was abandoned. Sloop-of-war USS PAWNEE and the tug YANKEE towing the 50-gun sailing frigate USS CUMBERLAND escaped. The destruction of the navy yard was mostly ineffective; in particular, the large dry dock there was relatively undamaged and was soon restored. Illustratio: Burning of the U.S. ship of the line PENNSYLVANIA, 140 guns: and other vessels, at the Gosport Navy Yard, Norfolk, Va. on the night of April 20th 1861Illustration: USS MERRIMACK aflame during the burning of the Norfolk Navy Yard, 20 April 1861
I came to this thread late, as usual, and find it fascinating BZ (well done) my good friend THE ROCK. IMO, FWIW, the loss of Gosport materially contributed to the prolongation of the ongoing blood bath we call the American Civil War. It should have been held, at all costs. The fact it was not says a lot about "The fog of war", the chaos that accompanies the "early days" for the side unprepared for war and the fact Navy bureaucracy is just as bad as any other until the Warriors replace the peacetime politicians in Uniform and clean house. It often takes the infusion of wartime only civilians to sort out the mess.
Despite the conversion of Merrimac to the ironclad Virginia the ships lost at the yard were of no real value. Merrimac herself was laid up in "Ordinary" because her engines were an utter disaster and would give the new crews hell for her entire life. Six old sailing vessels were serving as receiving ships or were just laid up in reserve, included were the USS Pennsylvania, the largest sailing ship built in the United States, and the 65-year-old frigate United States, sister ship to “Old Ironsides". The ship-of-the-line New York, still lay on the building stocks, not having been completed since work had started in 1820.
Five relatively new ships were also in the yard, including Germantown, Dolphin and Plymouth, undergoing repair. Four were sailing ships, similar to the types that would form the basis of the Civil War blockading fleet. One sloop and one brig were in ordinary, laid up in reserve, but not decommissioned.
That said, the drydock, foundry and machine shops of the yard were of great value to the Confederacy.
However, IMO, FWIW, the number of guns captured at Norfolk/Gosport were the greatest loss to the Union and the greatest asset for the Rebs. Despite the best efforts 100 Cumberland sailors, an hour only allowed for very limited the damage to the ordanance stored in the yard. They managed to spike many of the guns and temporarily make them UNserviceable. No serious damage was done to the state of the art excellent Dahlgren guns and the still very useful older heavy weapons in the arsenal.
These heavy guns provided the majority of coastal defense AND heavy siege guns for the entire Confederacy. The Union lost 1,198, serviceable guns including 803 of various types of naval guns. Of these guns, 533 were quickly dispatched to locations throughout the Confederacy. Between 1,043 and 1,099 guns of all types were cast at Tredegar during the war, and 1,050 were cast at all other Confederate foundries (all but 33 of these last being field pieces). Given these numbers, it appears that over one-third of all Confederate cannons were those captured at the Yard, and likely a majority of all Confederate naval and heavy guns. I expect though, that at least half of Tredegar's output was field-pieces... that assumption would mean 580 heavy guns cast new versus 803 captured at Norfolk. Senior Chief, have moved this post into this thread where all discussion related to the Real Time projects go so the daily updates remain clean from comments.
|
|
stevep
Fleet admiral
Posts: 23,426
Likes: 12,037
|
Post by stevep on Apr 29, 2023 15:34:01 GMT
Lordroel One small point with today's WWII post. In the sinking of the Athabaskan its actually HMCS rather than HMS as it was a Canadian destroyer.
Otherwise looks OK thanks.
Steve
|
|
lordroel
Administrator
Member is Online
Posts: 64,819
Likes: 45,954
|
Post by lordroel on Apr 29, 2023 15:39:53 GMT
Lordroel One small point with today's WWII post. In the sinking of the Athabaskan its actually HMCS rather than HMS as it was a Canadian destroyer.
Otherwise looks OK thanks. Steve
I Thanks, seems the Trolls missed a C, will edit it.
|
|
stevep
Fleet admiral
Posts: 23,426
Likes: 12,037
|
Post by stevep on Apr 30, 2023 11:13:28 GMT
A couple of comments on today's WWII post.
While the 1st mission was of limited success those were good attack, especially in their accuracy. Historically a fair number of French civilians died in the assorted bombing raids on infrastructure in the run up to overlord.
The source finally accepts that there has been a battle in the Imhal region although its already largely over with the Japanese forces decimated by the fighting and supply problems. They still don't acknowledge that there are non-American forces in India/Burma any more than they admit to Chinese forces in China. Elsewhere they do accept reality so puzzling why the deficit here?
|
|
lordroel
Administrator
Member is Online
Posts: 64,819
Likes: 45,954
|
Post by lordroel on Apr 30, 2023 11:22:44 GMT
The source finally accepts that there has been a battle in the Imhal region although its already largely over with the Japanese forces decimated by the fighting and supply problems. They still don't acknowledge that there are non-American forces in India/Burma any more than they admit to Chinese forces in China. Elsewhere they do accept reality so puzzling why the deficit here? The trolls are trying their best to get as much into a daily update, will push them to find more on the land front.
|
|
stevep
Fleet admiral
Posts: 23,426
Likes: 12,037
|
Post by stevep on Apr 30, 2023 12:20:11 GMT
The source finally accepts that there has been a battle in the Imhal region although its already largely over with the Japanese forces decimated by the fighting and supply problems. They still don't acknowledge that there are non-American forces in India/Burma any more than they admit to Chinese forces in China. Elsewhere they do accept reality so puzzling why the deficit here? The trolls are trying their best to get as much into a daily update, will push them to find more on the land front.
Not blaming you Lordroel. Its a fault of the sources in question. Similarly with the relatively small references to the eastern front which was by far the largest in terms of the forces involved and the destruction of Axis resources.
|
|
lordroel
Administrator
Member is Online
Posts: 64,819
Likes: 45,954
|
Post by lordroel on Apr 30, 2023 12:21:03 GMT
The trolls are trying their best to get as much into a daily update, will push them to find more on the land front. Not blaming you Lordroel. Its a fault of the sources in question. Similarly with the relatively small references to the eastern front which was by far the largest in terms of the forces involved and the destruction of Axis resources. Well the Eastern Front will make a comeback in the future, as well a certain other major front.
|
|
|
Post by Max Sinister on May 3, 2023 20:59:56 GMT
Since the ACW actually started since the last time I checked the thread: I wonder whether in the four coming years there will be days when you'll have to write nothing but "no events". My bet is on "No", but who knows.
|
|
575
Captain
There is no Purgatory for warcriminals - they go directly to Hell!
Posts: 2,215
Likes: 3,396
|
Post by 575 on May 5, 2023 19:32:06 GMT
No nitpick or any such - just stumbled upon some info regarding Operation Möwe(Gull), 19 September 1944 - the German disarmament of Danish Police and Border Gendarmes and internment in KZ-camp
(until late April 1945 when the prisoners were transported home in whitepainted buses by Danish and Swedish Red Cross personnel (overall operation headed by Swedish Count Folke Bernadotte) along the Danish and Norwegian Jews and other inmates - making for some 10,000 rescued during the last days of WWII. The final lift carried out added to that count 13,000 mainly women and children off all European and other nationalities from German KZ-camps)
- at some Police HQs and the Academy the officers fought the Germans.
At the Royal Castle, Copenhagen, guarded by Officers formerly Royal Guardsmen resisted the German attack repulsing the attackers three times before the Germans pulled back the troops. It had been a near run thing - the Danish Police having fired some 15,000 rounds during the fight from 11AM to 2,45PM throwing beerbottles as a last resort when ammunition ran out!
|
|
lordroel
Administrator
Member is Online
Posts: 64,819
Likes: 45,954
|
Post by lordroel on May 5, 2023 19:36:08 GMT
Not at all, just a little bit ahead of the daily updates which for World War II are now at July 12th 1944, would love to do more, but due some daily updates being long, i am at a limit of which i can make, already have 3 pages worth ready, just need to wait one ore 2 days before i am able to create a new daily update. But i will see if my sources mention these events when they come and i will add them to the updates.
|
|
stevep
Fleet admiral
Posts: 23,426
Likes: 12,037
|
Post by stevep on May 7, 2023 13:22:10 GMT
On today's WWII post there is a brief mention of the battle of Imphal but I think it contains an error?
The initial attacks were by the Japanese and they had achieved nothing other than to largely destroy their own forces. By this time IIRC they were in large scale retreat. The allied defence had been totally successful. Should this be the Japanese abandoning their offensive?
Also just notice that just above this is the heading and text Assuming this should also be under the India theatre heading?
Otherwise looking OK thanks.
Steve
|
|
lordroel
Administrator
Member is Online
Posts: 64,819
Likes: 45,954
|
Post by lordroel on May 7, 2023 13:45:41 GMT
On today's WWII post there is a brief mention of the battle of Imphal but I think it contains an error? The initial attacks were by the Japanese and they had achieved nothing other than to largely destroy their own forces. By this time IIRC they were in large scale retreat. The allied defence had been totally successful. Should this be the Japanese abandoning their offensive?
Also just notice that just above this is the heading and text Assuming this should also be under the India theatre heading?
Otherwise looking OK thanks. Steve
Thanks, the trolls will fix it.
|
|
miletus12
Squadron vice admiral
To get yourself lost, just follow the signs.
Posts: 7,470
Likes: 4,287
|
Post by miletus12 on May 7, 2023 13:51:11 GMT
Day 9 of the United States Civil War, April 20th 1861LouisianaThe steamship STAR OF THE WEST, which had been seized by Confederate authorities at Indianola, Texas on April 17th sailed into New Orleans. Governor of Louisiana, Thomas Overton Moore changed its name to CSS ST PHILP. MarylandThe training ship USS CONSTITUTION moored in the Severn River off Annapolis, was towed by the steamer USS MARYLAND into the Chesapeake Bay with troops of the 8th Massachusetts Infantry regiment aboard. This action prevented the Confederates from seizing the historic warship, usually known as “Old Ironsides”. Massachusetts Militia, Brigadier-General Benjamin Franklin Butler brought the 4th Massachusetts Militia Regiment (United States) into Annapolis, ready for transportation to Fort Monroe. A pro-Confederate mob began a week of burning bridges of the Pennsylvania Northern & Philadelphia Railroad near Baltimore at the instigation of the Mayor, to impede the movement of Union forces across the state. MissouriAn armed secessionist mob seized the United States Arsenal in Liberty, increasing United States concerns about the security of the state. New YorkSix hundred kegs of gunpowder bound for New Orleans, Louisiana, were seized by the US Marshal before they could be shipped. TexasThe United States coast survey schooner TWILIGHT was seized by Confederates at Aransas. VirginiaUnited States Army, Colonel Robert E. Lee learns of Virginia’s secession, and while friends and family gathered at the Arlington House to discuss the matter, Lee retired alone to the garden to consider what he would do. He later returned home and paced in his room for several hours. Early next morning, Lee wrote his letter of resignation to General-in-Chief Scott, after 32 years of service in the United States Army. It began: “Sir–I have the honour to tender the resignation of my Commission as Colonel of the 1st Regt of Cavalry.” Lee explained: “Since my interview with you on the 18th instant I have felt that I ought not longer retain my commission in the Army. I therefore tender my resignation, which I request you will recommend for acceptance. It would have been presented at once, but for the struggle it has cost me to separate myself from a service to which I have devoted all the best years of my life & all the ability I possessed…”In Guyandotte, a West Virginia meeting calls for the state to approve the actions of the Virginia legislature. The screw steamer USS ANACOSTIA under the command of United States Navy, Lieutenant Thomas S Fillebrown, with its crew augmented by 20 United States Marines from the Washington Navy Yard, was ordered to patrol off Kettle Bottom Shoals, to prevent the obstruction of the channel by Confederate forces. United States Navy, Captain Charles S McCauley gave orders to scuttle the ships in the Gosport Navy Yard and destroy its facilities. Receiving ship USS PENNSYLVANIA, sloop USS GERMANTOWN, 54 guns sailing frigate USS COLOMBIA and the brig USS DOLPHIN were burned to the water’s edge. The out of service 74-gun ship of the line USS DELAWARE, out of service 92-gun ship of the line USS COLUMBUS, sloop of war USS PLYMOUTH and the steam frigate USS MERRIMACK were burned and sunk. The old frigate USS UNITED STATES was abandoned. Sloop-of-war USS PAWNEE and the tug YANKEE towing the 50-gun sailing frigate USS CUMBERLAND escaped. The destruction of the navy yard was mostly ineffective; in particular, the large dry dock there was relatively undamaged and was soon restored. Illustratio: Burning of the U.S. ship of the line PENNSYLVANIA, 140 guns: and other vessels, at the Gosport Navy Yard, Norfolk, Va. on the night of April 20th 1861Illustration: USS MERRIMACK aflame during the burning of the Norfolk Navy Yard, 20 April 1861
I came to this thread late, as usual, and find it fascinating BZ (well done) my good friend THE ROCK. IMO, FWIW, the loss of Gosport materially contributed to the prolongation of the ongoing blood bath we call the American Civil War. It should have been held, at all costs. The fact it was not says a lot about "The fog of war", the chaos that accompanies the "early days" for the side unprepared for war and the fact Navy bureaucracy is just as bad as any other until the Warriors replace the peacetime politicians in Uniform and clean house. It often takes the infusion of wartime only civilians to sort out the mess.
Despite the conversion of Merrimac to the ironclad Virginia the ships lost at the yard were of no real value. Merrimac herself was laid up in "Ordinary" because her engines were an utter disaster and would give the new crews hell for her entire life. Six old sailing vessels were serving as receiving ships or were just laid up in reserve, included were the USS Pennsylvania, the largest sailing ship built in the United States, and the 65-year-old frigate United States, sister ship to “Old Ironsides". The ship-of-the-line New York, still lay on the building stocks, not having been completed since work had started in 1820.
Five relatively new ships were also in the yard, including Germantown, Dolphin and Plymouth, undergoing repair. Four were sailing ships, similar to the types that would form the basis of the Civil War blockading fleet. One sloop and one brig were in ordinary, laid up in reserve, but not decommissioned.
That said, the drydock, foundry and machine shops of the yard were of great value to the Confederacy.
However, IMO, FWIW, the number of guns captured at Norfolk/Gosport were the greatest loss to the Union and the greatest asset for the Rebs. Despite the best efforts 100 Cumberland sailors, an hour only allowed for very limited the damage to the ordanance stored in the yard. They managed to spike many of the guns and temporarily make them UNserviceable. No serious damage was done to the state of the art excellent Dahlgren guns and the still very useful older heavy weapons in the arsenal.
These heavy guns provided the majority of coastal defense AND heavy siege guns for the entire Confederacy. The Union lost 1,198, serviceable guns including 803 of various types of naval guns. Of these guns, 533 were quickly dispatched to locations throughout the Confederacy. Between 1,043 and 1,099 guns of all types were cast at Tredegar during the war, and 1,050 were cast at all other Confederate foundries (all but 33 of these last being field pieces). Given these numbers, it appears that over one-third of all Confederate cannons were those captured at the Yard, and likely a majority of all Confederate naval and heavy guns. I expect though, that at least half of Tredegar's output was field-pieces... that assumption would mean 580 heavy guns cast new versus 803 captured at Norfolk. One point of further interest about Gosport: the drydocks and the diving equipment shops and the "torpedo" (mine) shop. That hurt.
|
|
stevep
Fleet admiral
Posts: 23,426
Likes: 12,037
|
Post by stevep on May 12, 2023 10:51:24 GMT
On today's WWII post a little bit missing I think here.
Presumably the US 2nd Corp were attacking a river line or down a valley but the name is missing. The previous day's post mentions it involved in the attack on the Gustav line but not where.
Otherwise looks OK.
Steve
|
|