stevep
Fleet admiral
Posts: 24,866 
Likes: 13,252
|
Post by stevep on Jun 20, 2021 14:27:40 GMT
On today's WWII post:
I had read reference elsewhere that part of the problem for Tobruk's rapid fall was that a lot of the defences from the last siege had been dismantled leaving it vulnerable but that reference suggests that inaction by the commander, not realising what was happening, played at least a part. It would have been difficult maintaining the port under siege again but would have further tied down Rommel in terms of a force in his rear and inability to use the port for his own desperately overstretched logistics. 
Steve
|
|
stevep
Fleet admiral
Posts: 24,866
Likes: 13,252
|
Post by stevep on Jun 22, 2021 9:18:05 GMT
Lordroel One small quibble with today's WWII post. The section
You have twice, once after the initial photos from the eastern front and then again after the Baltic Sea entry.
Steve
|
|
lordroel
Administrator
Posts: 68,086
Likes: 49,473
|
Post by lordroel on Jun 22, 2021 13:48:38 GMT
Lordroel One small quibble with today's WWII post. The section
You have twice, once after the initial photos from the eastern front and then again after the Baltic Sea entry.
Steve
Will edit it. |
|
lordroel
Administrator
Posts: 68,086
Likes: 49,473
|
Post by lordroel on Jun 22, 2021 14:27:00 GMT
Something interesting related to the RAF and Luftwaffe bombers during World War II.
|
|
stevep
Fleet admiral
Posts: 24,866
Likes: 13,252
|
Post by stevep on Jun 26, 2021 13:08:03 GMT
On today's WWII post I was a bit surprised to see:
given that I thought they had been doing this for ~6 months already?
On the WWI post
That should have warned at least some of the commanders and forces that things weren't going as they seemed to be assuming. 
Steve
|
|
lordroel
Administrator
Posts: 68,086
Likes: 49,473
|
Post by lordroel on Jun 26, 2021 13:13:09 GMT
On today's WWII post I was a bit surprised to see:
given that I thought they had been doing this for ~6 months already? True but now they make it clear they are doing it. |
|
stevep
Fleet admiral
Posts: 24,866
Likes: 13,252
|
Post by stevep on Jul 2, 2021 11:30:26 GMT
On today's WWI thread. - That was the problem with Haig. As well as frequently ignoring information he didn't like from subordinates he continually dreamed about a decisive breakthrough to restart mobile warfare and there simply wasn't the capacity for it at this point. It either needed drastically different tactics and/or a wearing down of the enemy - so post-war he was always claiming his intent was a war of attrition to break German resistance. If he had been willing to accept a steady wearing down of the Germans then he could have achieved this faster and with far less British/imperial losses. |
|
stevep
Fleet admiral
Posts: 24,866
Likes: 13,252
|
Post by stevep on Jul 6, 2021 11:48:50 GMT
On today's WWI post and Haig's insistence on continued attacks without proper preparations I suspect part of it was the old sunken costs fallacy. He had already committed so much to the offensive politically that he couldn't accept that a quick victory was impossible given the losses the British army was taking.
Steve
|
|
lordroel
Administrator
Posts: 68,086
Likes: 49,473
|
Post by lordroel on Jul 6, 2021 14:10:31 GMT
On today's WWI post and Haig's insistence on continued attacks without proper preparations I suspect part of it was the old sunken costs fallacy. He had already committed so much to the offensive politically that he couldn't accept that a quick victory was impossible given the losses the British army was taking. Steve
If Haig had a change of hart, would it cost it his head politically and career as i doubt there are going to be many people happy for him sending you men into their deaths. |
|
stevep
Fleet admiral
Posts: 24,866
Likes: 13,252
|
Post by stevep on Jul 6, 2021 14:36:51 GMT
On today's WWI post and Haig's insistence on continued attacks without proper preparations I suspect part of it was the old sunken costs fallacy. He had already committed so much to the offensive politically that he couldn't accept that a quick victory was impossible given the losses the British army was taking. Steve
If Haig had a change of hart, would it cost it his head politically and career as i doubt there are going to be many people happy for him sending you men into their deaths.
I don't think so, at least before he made such a promise of quick and decisive success. To a degree that was welcomed by the politicians and the population but I think he genuinely believed what he said as he kept on at it, even when in 1917-18 Lloyd George was PM and had a lot of concern about such offensives.
There was an alternative. The bite and hold operation where instead of trying to make deep penetrations you go for limited ones within range of your own artillery support. The latter is important because, in later offensives and also later stages of the Somme the problem was less than taking the 1st line of the German defences but in trying to push beyond that and that's where the bulk of the attacker's casualties tended to occur. They were going beyond artillery support, either because of range or more often the problems of directing such weapons in the chaos once you got beyond the immediate line of the attack. Also it was found out that a short and intense bombardment - once the artillery was heavy and experienced enough [and shell quality suitable] was far more effective than the sort of multi-day bombardment such as before the Somme. The latter simply telegraphed the forthcoming offensive and hence enabled them to prepare for an attack.
There was an example I read once of the French general Foch, who was later made allied commander. After a short limited offensive some of his colleagues mocked his success in that the small amount of territory gained would need several thousand such operations to drive German forces from French soil. In response he pointed out the larger German as opposed to French casualties and argued that it would take 80 IIRC such offensive to totally destroy the German army.
|
|
lordroel
Administrator
Posts: 68,086
Likes: 49,473
|
Post by lordroel on Jul 6, 2021 14:49:41 GMT
If Haig had a change of hart, would it cost it his head politically and career as i doubt there are going to be many people happy for him sending you men into their deaths. I don't think so, at least before he made such a promise of quick and decisive success. To a degree that was welcomed by the politicians and the population but I think he genuinely believed what he said as he kept on at it, even when in 1917-18 Lloyd George was PM and had a lot of concern about such offensives.
There was an alternative. The bite and hold operation where instead of trying to make deep penetrations you go for limited ones within range of your own artillery support. The latter is important because, in later offensives and also later stages of the Somme the problem was less than taking the 1st line of the German defences but in trying to push beyond that and that's where the bulk of the attacker's casualties tended to occur. They were going beyond artillery support, either because of range or more often the problems of directing such weapons in the chaos once you got beyond the immediate line of the attack. Also it was found out that a short and intense bombardment - once the artillery was heavy and experienced enough [and shell quality suitable] was far more effective than the sort of multi-day bombardment such as before the Somme. The latter simply telegraphed the forthcoming offensive and hence enabled them to prepare for an attack. There was an example I read once of the French general Foch, who was later made allied commander. After a short limited offensive some of his colleagues mocked his success in that the small amount of territory gained would need several thousand such operations to drive German forces from French soil. In response he pointed out the larger German as opposed to French casualties and argued that it would take 80 IIRC such offensive to totally destroy the German army.
Well it only 1916, two years of blood have been spoiled, two more bloody years to post. |
|
stevep
Fleet admiral
Posts: 24,866
Likes: 13,252
|
Post by stevep on Jul 6, 2021 14:57:52 GMT
I don't think so, at least before he made such a promise of quick and decisive success. To a degree that was welcomed by the politicians and the population but I think he genuinely believed what he said as he kept on at it, even when in 1917-18 Lloyd George was PM and had a lot of concern about such offensives.
There was an alternative. The bite and hold operation where instead of trying to make deep penetrations you go for limited ones within range of your own artillery support. The latter is important because, in later offensives and also later stages of the Somme the problem was less than taking the 1st line of the German defences but in trying to push beyond that and that's where the bulk of the attacker's casualties tended to occur. They were going beyond artillery support, either because of range or more often the problems of directing such weapons in the chaos once you got beyond the immediate line of the attack. Also it was found out that a short and intense bombardment - once the artillery was heavy and experienced enough [and shell quality suitable] was far more effective than the sort of multi-day bombardment such as before the Somme. The latter simply telegraphed the forthcoming offensive and hence enabled them to prepare for an attack. There was an example I read once of the French general Foch, who was later made allied commander. After a short limited offensive some of his colleagues mocked his success in that the small amount of territory gained would need several thousand such operations to drive German forces from French soil. In response he pointed out the larger German as opposed to French casualties and argued that it would take 80 IIRC such offensive to totally destroy the German army.
Well it only 1916, two years of blood have been spoiled, two more bloody years to post.
Unfortunately so and it gets worse in most ways for the rest of the war. Then there's the mess that's left afterwards.  |
|
lordroel
Administrator
Posts: 68,086
Likes: 49,473
|
Post by lordroel on Jul 6, 2021 15:01:55 GMT
Well it only 1916, two years of blood have been spoiled, two more bloody years to post. Unfortunately so and it gets worse in most ways for the rest of the war. Then there's the mess that's left afterwards. Both World Wars had a lot of mess afterwords, at least the last one did not lead to World War III. |
|
stevep
Fleet admiral
Posts: 24,866
Likes: 13,252
|
Post by stevep on Jul 10, 2021 10:03:04 GMT
On today's WWI thread where it says:
That "Hungarians" at the start seems a bit out of place. Also I'm a bit surprised that the Italians are stepping up their bombardment of the Castelletto immediately before detonating the mine. Would suspect this would be a good reason for the Austrians, since their heard the mine activity, to get a lot of their men out. Unless they think the Italians might be trying to bluff them? Also I wonder if they considered counter-mining operations, although possibly the structure of the location makes it impractical.
There's no WWII post yet. Hopefully just been delayed by events but just in case its slipped your mind.
Steve
|
|
lordroel
Administrator
Posts: 68,086
Likes: 49,473
|
Post by lordroel on Jul 10, 2021 10:06:17 GMT
On today's WWI thread where it says:
That "Hungarians" at the start seems a bit out of place. Also I'm a bit surprised that the Italians are stepping up their bombardment of the Castelletto immediately before detonating the mine. Would suspect this would be a good reason for the Austrians, since their heard the mine activity, to get a lot of their men out. Unless they think the Italians might be trying to bluff them? Also I wonder if they considered counter-mining operations, although possibly the structure of the location makes it impractical. There's no WWII post yet. Hopefully just been delayed by events but just in case its slipped your mind. Steve
First, the Hungarian matter related to your post stevep ,, will edit it. Second, related to the WW II update, i am waiting until the release of World War II in Realtime on YouTube before i release it, that is why Saturdays, the WW II update will be several hours later than the regular updates true the rest of the week. |
|
