stevep
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Post by stevep on Jan 3, 2021 13:15:09 GMT
There is a duplication in the WWII post, see:
in today's post. You actually covered the sinking of the Langkoeas and massacre of survivors in more detail in yesterday's post. Looking increasingly depressing in both Malaya and the Philippines, even if we didn't know what was to happen there.  Steve
Really, dam trolls i told them so many times to make sure that there are no duplicates in a update, will edit it. And the Battle for Singapore is still a month away.
You simply can't get the staff.  Unfortunately by the time the battle for Singapore starts its already lost as the island is too isolated to survive even if it fought off the initial Japanese attack.
Just caught up with yesterday's video - didn't see the WWII post yesterday as busy with other things. A couple of points I would argue with Indi over. a) The Japanese from what I've read didn't actually plan to use Manila so the actual withdrawal into the Bataan peninsula actually helped the Japanese. While they were better organised and equipped the Japanese forces were markedly smaller then the US-Filippino ones so it managed to give them control of Luzon and isolate the allied forces in Bataan. IIRC Japan actually moved a unit or two from the Philippines for the invasion of DEI and returned other later for the final attack on the pocket. b) Malta was important but not for allied shipping as with very rare exceptions the only real British MS missions in the central Med was to supply Malta. It was important in inflicting losses on Axis supplies to N Africa, although I have seen some suggestions that with the lengths of supply lines, especially when Rommel was on the offensive, and the limited port facilities in Libya that it didn't make a massive amount of difference, given how much fuel especially was consumed with getting other equipment to the front. Mind you the size of the escorts that the Italians were forces to send with convoys further increased their own fuel difficulties.
Steve
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lordroel
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Post by lordroel on Jan 3, 2021 13:21:32 GMT
Really, dam trolls i told them so many times to make sure that there are no duplicates in a update, will edit it. And the Battle for Singapore is still a month away. You simply can't get the staff. Unfortunately by the time the battle for Singapore starts its already lost as the island is too isolated to survive even if it fought off the initial Japanese attack. Just caught up with yesterday's video - didn't see the WWII post yesterday as busy with other things. A couple of points I would argue with Indi over. a) The Japanese from what I've read didn't actually plan to use Manila so the actual withdrawal into the Bataan peninsula actually helped the Japanese. While they were better organised and equipped the Japanese forces were markedly smaller then the US-Filippino ones so it managed to give them control of Luzon and isolate the allied forces in Bataan. IIRC Japan actually moved a unit or two from the Philippines for the invasion of DEI and returned other later for the final attack on the pocket. b) Malta was important but not for allied shipping as with very rare exceptions the only real British MS missions in the central Med was to supply Malta. It was important in inflicting losses on Axis supplies to N Africa, although I have seen some suggestions that with the lengths of supply lines, especially when Rommel was on the offensive, and the limited port facilities in Libya that it didn't make a massive amount of difference, given how much fuel especially was consumed with getting other equipment to the front. Mind you the size of the escorts that the Italians were forces to send with convoys further increased their own fuel difficulties.
Steve
Always surprised the Battle of Hong Kong lasted longer than the Battle of Singapore despite the Hong Kong garrison consisted of British, Indian and Canadian units being smaller than the Singapore garrison. |
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stevep
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Post by stevep on Jan 3, 2021 16:58:06 GMT
You simply can't get the staff. Unfortunately by the time the battle for Singapore starts its already lost as the island is too isolated to survive even if it fought off the initial Japanese attack. Just caught up with yesterday's video - didn't see the WWII post yesterday as busy with other things. A couple of points I would argue with Indi over. a) The Japanese from what I've read didn't actually plan to use Manila so the actual withdrawal into the Bataan peninsula actually helped the Japanese. While they were better organised and equipped the Japanese forces were markedly smaller then the US-Filippino ones so it managed to give them control of Luzon and isolate the allied forces in Bataan. IIRC Japan actually moved a unit or two from the Philippines for the invasion of DEI and returned other later for the final attack on the pocket. b) Malta was important but not for allied shipping as with very rare exceptions the only real British MS missions in the central Med was to supply Malta. It was important in inflicting losses on Axis supplies to N Africa, although I have seen some suggestions that with the lengths of supply lines, especially when Rommel was on the offensive, and the limited port facilities in Libya that it didn't make a massive amount of difference, given how much fuel especially was consumed with getting other equipment to the front. Mind you the size of the escorts that the Italians were forces to send with convoys further increased their own fuel difficulties.
Steve
Always surprised the Battle of Hong Kong lasted longer than the Battle of Singapore despite the Hong Kong garrison consisted of British, Indian and Canadian units being smaller than the Singapore garrison.
That might have been part of the problem. By the time it came to the actual battle for Singapore Island the forces were already at least partially demoralised and probably had lost a fair amount of equipment, let alone the units who managed to arrive by ship despite the Japanese controlling the air, with no time to adjust from a long sea voyage before having to surrender. For Hong Kong it was the very start of the conflict and also as I think was said in the TL there were some hopes of relief from China. [How times have changed when its now the occupier and threat to Hong Kong!]
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gillan1220
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Post by gillan1220 on Jan 7, 2021 4:26:16 GMT
For WWI, we are about to reach the end of the Gallipoli campaign.
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lordroel
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Post by lordroel on Jan 7, 2021 4:39:47 GMT
For WWI, we are about to reach the end of the Gallipoli campaign. Yep, a end to a disastrous campaign that never would have worked except in fiction. |
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stevep
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Post by stevep on Jan 7, 2021 14:08:38 GMT
For WWI, we are about to reach the end of the Gallipoli campaign. Yep, a end to a disastrous campaign that never would have worked except in fiction.
I would have to disagree. It would have been tough and needed better leadership, planning and training but there was at least a chance of a successful breakthrough here which could have revolutionised the entire military position. [Forcing the Turks to at least withdraw from the straits, if not from the war, nullified or possibly bringing the Bulgarians in on the allied side, hence also preserving Serbia for a little longer at least.] definitely more chance than any of the total futile attacks on the western front that consumed far more men and resources.
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lordroel
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Post by lordroel on Jan 7, 2021 14:30:49 GMT
Yep, a end to a disastrous campaign that never would have worked except in fiction. I would have to disagree. It would have been tough and needed better leadership, planning and training but there was at least a chance of a successful breakthrough here which could have revolutionised the entire military position. [Forcing the Turks to at least withdraw from the straits, if not from the war, nullified or possibly bringing the Bulgarians in on the allied side, hence also preserving Serbia for a little longer at least.] definitely more chance than any of the total futile attacks on the western front that consumed far more men and resources.
Well would we end up with this: What If the Allies Had won At Gallipoli? |
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stevep
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Post by stevep on Jan 7, 2021 17:54:55 GMT
I would have to disagree. It would have been tough and needed better leadership, planning and training but there was at least a chance of a successful breakthrough here which could have revolutionised the entire military position. [Forcing the Turks to at least withdraw from the straits, if not from the war, nullified or possibly bringing the Bulgarians in on the allied side, hence also preserving Serbia for a little longer at least.] definitely more chance than any of the total futile attacks on the western front that consumed far more men and resources.
Well would we end up with this: What If the Allies Had won At Gallipoli?
Something like that. As I say knocking the Turks out or even forcing them into the interior and opening up the straits drastically changes the balance of power. No way will Bulgaria go CP here and it's likely to go EP. Romania could go EP earlier, which might not be as disastrous as OTL with the stronger allied position. Keeping Serbia and Montenegro in the war and reinforcing them with the British troops that were otherwise tied up in the eastern theatres plus possibly a few more and the pressure on Austria becomes very bad. [Russia to the east, Italy to the west and Britain and allies to the south.] Especially if either/both Bulgaria or Romania joined the EP in which case the allies could use the Danube as a supply route.
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gillan1220
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Post by gillan1220 on Jan 9, 2021 11:00:10 GMT
That ends the Gallipoli Campaign. The Gallipoli Campaign (1915) The Chaos Of The Gallipoli Campaign | Great Battle Of The Great War | TimelineGallipoli 1915 - The Great War DOCUMENTARYBattle of Gallipoli /The Runner Battlefield 1 - 4K
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stevep
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Post by stevep on Jan 10, 2021 15:52:22 GMT
On today's WWI post your got a double entry on the fall of Mt. Lovchen to the Austrians. Right at the top of the post and then, with additional notes near the bottom, i.e.
Steve
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lordroel
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Post by lordroel on Jan 10, 2021 15:53:31 GMT
On today's WWI post your got a double entry on the fall of Mt. Lovchen to the Austrians. Right at the top of the post and then, with additional notes near the bottom, i.e.
Steve
Seems you have read the post, i have the trolls do this to see if anybody reads the updates. Will edit it, thanks for the spotting as always. |
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lordroel
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Post by lordroel on Jan 10, 2021 15:55:40 GMT
On today's WWI post your got a double entry on the fall of Mt. Lovchen to the Austrians. Right at the top of the post and then, with additional notes near the bottom, i.e.
Steve
Seems i posted the January 12th 1916th post also stevep, have removed it for now. |
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stevep
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Post by stevep on Jan 10, 2021 16:06:02 GMT
On today's WWI post your got a double entry on the fall of Mt. Lovchen to the Austrians. Right at the top of the post and then, with additional notes near the bottom, i.e.
Steve
Seems i posted the January 12th 1916th post also stevep , have removed it for now.
Damn. Been a bit distracted today so missed that. Will have a spot of de jar view on Tuesday then. |
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lordroel
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Post by lordroel on Jan 10, 2021 16:10:26 GMT
Seems i posted the January 12th 1916th post also stevep , have removed it for now. Damn. Been a bit distracted today so missed that. Will have a spot of de jar view on Tuesday then. Well you did spot it, seems my troll in charge of posting the daily updates did not, he will be punished accordingly. |
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stevep
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Post by stevep on Jan 12, 2021 12:54:15 GMT
That's an interesting what if I've seen before. If Reichenau had been more careful or luckier then he would have been in charge of 6th Army and with more recent battle experience might have handled Stalingrad somewhat better. Although whether he could have altered the outcome I don't know. From what I've read he was an ardent Nazi so its unlikely he would have defied Hitler but its a possibility if the army still got trapped as OTL.
Steve
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Unfortunately by the time the battle for Singapore starts its already lost as the island is too isolated to survive even if it fought off the initial Japanese attack.