stevep
Fleet admiral
Posts: 24,863 
Likes: 13,250
|
Post by stevep on Dec 6, 2020 14:26:01 GMT
On the WWI thread Townsend's argument seems valid and as pointed out not expelling the locals from the siege caused problems. Although that would be likely to anger the local tribes further and they don't seem too friendly already. Also while the Turks can only attack by land from the north there is the issue of harassment and possibly even landings across the river which mean they still need some protection of the waterfront. Some artillery firing from the western bank could cause problems across most of the position.
In yesterday's WWII post so many what ifs.
Hopefully Kramer got a real rocket after that foul up. He should have known with so much concern about a potential war not to dawdle! Might not have changed much but could have been an important wake up call.
That was something that did work out for the allies. If Enterprise had been at Pearl she would almost certainly have been totally destroyed which would have hurt the USN in the early period of the Pacific war.
That could have been interesting if Phillips had stayed. Would Force Z have sailed without him or waiting for him to fly out from the Philippines.
Now if that Catalina had managed to escape or even just get a message off. Might have triggered Operation Matador which could have affected the Japanese invasion.
Steve
|
|
lordroel
Administrator
Member is Online
Posts: 68,065
Likes: 49,462
|
Post by lordroel on Dec 6, 2020 14:29:04 GMT
On the WWI thread Townsend's argument seems valid and as pointed out not expelling the locals from the siege caused problems. Although that would be likely to anger the local tribes further and they don't seem too friendly already. Also while the Turks can only attack by land from the north there is the issue of harassment and possibly even landings across the river which mean they still need some protection of the waterfront. Some artillery firing from the western bank could cause problems across most of the position. In yesterday's WWII post so many what ifs.
Hopefully Kramer got a real rocket after that foul up. He should have known with so much concern about a potential war not to dawdle! Might not have changed much but could have been an important wake up call.
That was something that did work out for the allies. If Enterprise had been at Pearl she would almost certainly have been totally destroyed which would have hurt the USN in the early period of the Pacific war.
That could have been interesting if Phillips had stayed. Would Force Z have sailed without him or waiting for him to fly out from the Philippines.
Now if that Catalina had managed to escape or even just get a message off. Might have triggered Operation Matador which could have affected the Japanese invasion.
Steve
That are a lot of What ifs you found stevep. |
|
lordroel
Administrator
Member is Online
Posts: 68,065
Likes: 49,462
|
Post by lordroel on Dec 6, 2020 15:15:54 GMT
So i am working on the updates, no problem if i use a a example
Pacific War
HONG KONG
GUAM
WAKE
The letters in All caps to separate the Pacific War in separate segments.
|
|
stevep
Fleet admiral
Posts: 24,863
Likes: 13,250
|
Post by stevep on Dec 6, 2020 16:01:15 GMT
So i am working on the updates, no problem if i use a a example Pacific WarHONG KONG GUAM WAKE The letters in All caps to separate the Pacific War in separate segments.
Those would be fine, especially since all those are fairly short term operations before they fall to the Japanese. Similar with Malaya and the Philippines. Where you might have problems would be in Indonesia and places like Rabaul and New Guinea where there is a lot of scattered fighting all over the place.
Steve
|
|
lordroel
Administrator
Member is Online
Posts: 68,065
Likes: 49,462
|
Post by lordroel on Dec 6, 2020 16:05:53 GMT
So i am working on the updates, no problem if i use a a example Pacific WarHONG KONG GUAM WAKE The letters in All caps to separate the Pacific War in separate segments. Those would be fine, especially since all those are fairly short term operations before they fall to the Japanese. Similar with Malaya and the Philippines. Where you might have problems would be in Indonesia and places like Rabaul and New Guinea where there is a lot of scattered fighting all over the place. Steve
I will go with operations inside operations like this then: PHILIPPINES LUZON - |
|
stevep
Fleet admiral
Posts: 24,863
Likes: 13,250
|
Post by stevep on Dec 7, 2020 16:55:58 GMT
lordroel , On today's WWI post there's a paragraph that seems to end abruptly.
Should this be something like "the entirety of the country"? Its fairly clear what it means but just a bit off in the ending.
In the WWII thread you have the sinking of the U-208 reported twice, once under the Battle of the Atlantic and once under the Battle of the Med.
Steve
|
|
lordroel
Administrator
Member is Online
Posts: 68,065
Likes: 49,462
|
Post by lordroel on Dec 7, 2020 17:15:14 GMT
lordroel , On today's WWI post there's a paragraph that seems to end abruptly.
Should this be something like "the entirety of the country"? Its fairly clear what it means but just a bit off in the ending. In the WWII thread you have the sinking of the U-208 reported twice, once under the Battle of the Atlantic and once under the Battle of the Med.
Steve
A thanks, both need some editing, will do it right away. |
|
gillan1220
Fleet admiral
I've been depressed recently. Slow replies coming in the next few days.
Posts: 12,622
Likes: 11,338
|
Post by gillan1220 on Dec 8, 2020 3:49:55 GMT
The Pearl Harbor attacks also appeared in several video games such as Medal of Honor: Rising Sun, Medal of Honor: Pacific Assault, Battlestations: Midway, and Battlestations: Pacific.
Medal of Honor Rising Sun Gameplay Walkthrough Part 1 - Pearl Harbor + Philippines
Battle of Pearl Harbor - Medal of Honor Pacific Assault Gameplay HD
Battlestation Midway: Mission 1-Pearl harbor
Battlestations: Pacific. Japanese campaign. Mission 1. Attack on Pearl Harbor
|
|
stevep
Fleet admiral
Posts: 24,863
Likes: 13,250
|
Post by stevep on Dec 8, 2020 12:01:38 GMT
On today's WWII post, given the actual situation at the time as it was seen by many people and that the Finns have actually been limiting their actual pressure on the Soviets for some time now this was a bold move.
The Finnish 4th Division takes defensive positions along southern part of Maaselkä Isthmus. Good defensive positions have been reached on all directions and Marshal Mannerheim and President Ryti decide not to continue attack towards White Sea, because it has become politically unwise, since it has become probable that Germans will lose the war and the US has threatened to declare war if Finns cut the supply of Lend and Lease equipment by taking Archangelsk.
Its a pity that Stalin, being Stalin, showed no similar tolerance. 
For the section on force Z:
I don't think this is accurate. There were Buffalo's available when the two ships were attacked on the 10th but, for reasons that have long been hotly disputed they were not called upon until the last stages of the attack and only arrived after the ships had been sunk. See Sinking_of_Prince_of_Wales_and_Repulse, the last paragraph of section 2.3. Phillips had not called for air support and it was Captain Leach of the Repulse that did so although there has been some suggestion that Phillips had been informed earlier that no air cover was available.
Steve
|
|
lordroel
Administrator
Member is Online
Posts: 68,065
Likes: 49,462
|
Post by lordroel on Dec 8, 2020 15:06:48 GMT
The Pearl Harbor attacks also appeared in several video games such as Medal of Honor: Rising Sun, Medal of Honor: Pacific Assault, Battlestations: Midway, and Battlestations: Pacific. Medal of Honor Rising Sun Gameplay Walkthrough Part 1 - Pearl Harbor + PhilippinesBattle of Pearl Harbor - Medal of Honor Pacific Assault Gameplay HDBattlestation Midway: Mission 1-Pearl harbor
Battlestations: Pacific. Japanese campaign. Mission 1. Attack on Pearl Harbor, i have moved your post from World War II in realtime to this thread as i want to keep the World War II in realtime thread focus on the update, if you like to post material related to a update or have questions regarding the World War I ore World War II projects, then this thread is the place to do it. |
|
gillan1220
Fleet admiral
I've been depressed recently. Slow replies coming in the next few days.
Posts: 12,622
Likes: 11,338
|
Post by gillan1220 on Dec 8, 2020 15:09:54 GMT
The Pearl Harbor attacks also appeared in several video games such as Medal of Honor: Rising Sun, Medal of Honor: Pacific Assault, Battlestations: Midway, and Battlestations: Pacific. Medal of Honor Rising Sun Gameplay Walkthrough Part 1 - Pearl Harbor + PhilippinesBattle of Pearl Harbor - Medal of Honor Pacific Assault Gameplay HDBattlestation Midway: Mission 1-Pearl harbor
Battlestations: Pacific. Japanese campaign. Mission 1. Attack on Pearl Harbor , i have moved your post from World War II in realtime to this thread as i want to keep the World War II in realtime thread focus on the update, if you like to post material related to a update or have questions regarding the World War I ore World War II projects, then this thread is the place to do it. Alright got it. So the thread is supposed to be a No-Reply thread? |
|
lordroel
Administrator
Member is Online
Posts: 68,065
Likes: 49,462
|
Post by lordroel on Dec 8, 2020 15:13:04 GMT
american2006 , i have moved your post from World War II in realtime to this thread as i want to keep the World War II in realtime thread focus on the update, if you like to post material related to a update or have questions regarding the World War I ore World War II projects, then this thread is the place to do it. Alright got it. So the thread is supposed to be a No-Reply thread? Only for the World War I and II projects, it looks nicer if discussions happen here, if needed i can make a World War II in Realtime discussion thread if anybody want to. |
|
gillan1220
Fleet admiral
I've been depressed recently. Slow replies coming in the next few days.
Posts: 12,622
Likes: 11,338
|
Post by gillan1220 on Dec 8, 2020 15:14:51 GMT
Alright got it. So the thread is supposed to be a No-Reply thread? Only for the World War I and II projects, it looks nicer if discussions happen here, if needed i can make a World War II in Realtime discussion thread if anybody want to. Fair enough. We can discuss it here. |
|
lordroel
Administrator
Member is Online
Posts: 68,065
Likes: 49,462
|
Post by lordroel on Dec 8, 2020 15:48:07 GMT
On today's WWII post, given the actual situation at the time as it was seen by many people and that the Finns have actually been limiting their actual pressure on the Soviets for some time now this was a bold move.
The Finnish 4th Division takes defensive positions along southern part of Maaselkä Isthmus. Good defensive positions have been reached on all directions and Marshal Mannerheim and President Ryti decide not to continue attack towards White Sea, because it has become politically unwise, since it has become probable that Germans will lose the war and the US has threatened to declare war if Finns cut the supply of Lend and Lease equipment by taking Archangelsk.
Its a pity that Stalin, being Stalin, showed no similar tolerance. For the section on force Z:
I don't think this is accurate. There were Buffalo's available when the two ships were attacked on the 10th but, for reasons that have long been hotly disputed they were not called upon until the last stages of the attack and only arrived after the ships had been sunk. See Sinking_of_Prince_of_Wales_and_Repulse, the last paragraph of section 2.3. Phillips had not called for air support and it was Captain Leach of the Repulse that did so although there has been some suggestion that Phillips had been informed earlier that no air cover was available. Steve
, so should i edit it to, land-based air support was not available). |
|
stevep
Fleet admiral
Posts: 24,863
Likes: 13,250
|
Post by stevep on Dec 8, 2020 16:30:20 GMT
On today's WWII post, given the actual situation at the time as it was seen by many people and that the Finns have actually been limiting their actual pressure on the Soviets for some time now this was a bold move.
The Finnish 4th Division takes defensive positions along southern part of Maaselkä Isthmus. Good defensive positions have been reached on all directions and Marshal Mannerheim and President Ryti decide not to continue attack towards White Sea, because it has become politically unwise, since it has become probable that Germans will lose the war and the US has threatened to declare war if Finns cut the supply of Lend and Lease equipment by taking Archangelsk.
Its a pity that Stalin, being Stalin, showed no similar tolerance. For the section on force Z:
I don't think this is accurate. There were Buffalo's available when the two ships were attacked on the 10th but, for reasons that have long been hotly disputed they were not called upon until the last stages of the attack and only arrived after the ships had been sunk. See Sinking_of_Prince_of_Wales_and_Repulse, the last paragraph of section 2.3. Phillips had not called for air support and it was Captain Leach of the Repulse that did so although there has been some suggestion that Phillips had been informed earlier that no air cover was available. Steve
, so should i edit it to, land-based air support was not available).
Possibly something like land based air support was not summoned in time. Not sure how effect it would be although I think the Japanese bombers were operating without fighter escort so if they had been called early enough it could have been important. The key problem was that no one realised that Japanese torpedo bombers could reach that far south from S Vietnam. Plus that very few fighters were actually available. As I said earlier some reports are that Phillips was told no air cover was available so he may have thought it not worth asking, especially since before the attack started he may have felt that asking for such support could have exposed his location by radio interception means. When you get to the people who have studied it a lot its a very heated subject. As such what I say above may be the best but still leaves a lot uncertain.
Steve
|
|
