Real time Discusion thread

  I think it depends on the circumstances, including the rate of technological change and also other factors, in this case the existence of the treaties which prevented replacement ships being built.  For instance HMS Dreadnought was completed in early 1906 and was effectively obsolete by 1914 when WWI started.  It acted as the flagship of the Channel fleet, the other battleships in that force being pre-dreadnoughts. 

  Traditionally if things weren't moving too fast BBs often had a 'great' refit after about 10-15 years and then after a similar period would be scrapped or put in reserve, both because it would probably be obsolete by then and also likely to be largely worn out.  If not for the 1921 and 1930 treaties the Queen's would probably have had one such refit, probably less extensive than their OTL 2nd one but then be being replaced by new construction by the late 30's - the RN having built more ships in the 20's and early 30's so their probably the slowest and oldest units still active and the slightly newer but smaller and slower R class having already been retired.

  I think in the case of the Queens' and the other ships upgraded the plight of the navy by the early 30's and the combination of the depression and the 1930 treaty extending the naval 'holiday' some upgrades were desperately needed and with technology advancing fairly rapidly, including in air power for instance this continued into the late 30's as the restricted capacity for new capital ship construction and the growing number of threats meant that some older ships needed extensive reconstructions to keep a decent sized battlefleet comparable to the new threats.

  Anyway waffling a bit but hope that helps.

  Steve

lordroel,

  Would agree plus its markedly more efficient.  The 6" casement secondaries, see casements for more details, were too low and largely unable to be used in a seaway in any speed or anything but a flat calm, a serious problem for many WWI designs in most powers I believe.  Also engines were improved as was deck armour - for protection against both longer ranged fire and aircraft, along with markedly more AA fire.  We didn't get a lot out of QE herself early in the war as she was in refit until 1941 and then at the end of the year, along with her sister Valiant were mined in Alexandria harbour, Queen Elizabeth in WWII, which kept her out of action until July 43.  Which is a pity as while slow by WWII standards she was a pretty powerful unit.

  Steve

a) Your still referring to the twins as heavy cruisers when they are either BCs or light BBs - a subject of heated debate on the BB v BB board.

b)  A good day for the change in the Atlantic with two U boats sunk, especially the very lethal Prien.

  On WWII 8/3/41

  Very interesting comment, although given how hostile the US was to the operation initially possibly by chance.

  Steve

   lordroel ,

  A couple of issues with today's WWI post.

a)  The last two paragraphs under the western front heading are duplicated.  Complicated by a couple of images being included but those are the paras starting with

b)  Below this is the Eastern front section but the 1st two paras I think should be in the preceding western front section as they concern German plans for a gas attack at Ypres. 

  Otherwise looks good and the section on Neuve Chapelle gives a very good summary of some of the problems with trying to obtain a real break-through at this point.  Unfortunately it takes far too long for the generals, especially Haig to accept this.  Also the tragedy that having made a successful initial attack, by a very short and intense bombardment which gives minimal warning and reaction time the British army - along with the French - for a long period switch to the idea of a prolonged bombardment which gives the defending Germans far too long to react.

  Steve