James G
Squadron vice admiral
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Post by James G on Nov 2, 2019 20:21:05 GMT
I will do a map later tonight / tomorrow morning showing how far the advance has progressed: it will be an edit to that one posted last week.
Any further ideas on the upcoming piece on the undercover espionage team in the UK ahead of the enemy landings are welcome. Ideas for their activities ahead of the landings, during and even afterwards are encouraged.
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forcon
Lieutenant Commander
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Post by forcon on Nov 2, 2019 20:21:52 GMT
I absolutely love the idea of them being Neighbourhood Watch members - it's just so ironically funny to me, more amusing even than them being MPs or police officers or senior military personnel. I really like the idea of them sitting around the table with a bunch of upper-middle class 'Keep our streets clean' types, listening to their companions talking about 'filthy commies' or something along those lines!
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amir
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Post by amir on Nov 3, 2019 2:56:16 GMT
What if your in place team of illegals is really there to activate a series of networks? Note- officers are typically natives of the country employing them and agents are host or third country nationals recruited by officers.
Some example agent networks- 1. A transportation network able to provide or operate trucks, buses, or cars 2. An intelligence network (plane spotters) to provide information on objectives and routes 3. A shelter network- safehouses, farms, etc to house pathfinders or advanced forces 4. A logistics network to organize food, fuels, etc.
This lets the officers be more efficient and achieve a greater economy of effort. Some or all of the networks can be combined with “allied trades”, such as smugglers, organized crime, etc. if the officers are really good at what they do, the have agent networks (cut outs) set up to manage the activities of the sub networks, allowing the officers to continue to operate in cover after a large operation.
Of course, while an officer can expect to be exfiltrated or otherwise have provisions for their welfare made, an agent can be disposed of once they cease to be of further utility...
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James G
Squadron vice admiral
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Post by James G on Nov 3, 2019 13:10:11 GMT
I absolutely love the idea of them being Neighbourhood Watch members - it's just so ironically funny to me, more amusing even than them being MPs or police officers or senior military personnel. I really like the idea of them sitting around the table with a bunch of upper-middle class 'Keep our streets clean' types, listening to their companions talking about 'filthy commies' or something along those lines! To me, that is how an good espionage op should work: people doing your work for you, unaware that they are too. It helps keep down the workload on the officers, brings in more product and is a safety value against detection. What if your in place team of illegals is really there to activate a series of networks? Note- officers are typically natives of the country employing them and agents are host or third country nationals recruited by officers. Some example agent networks- 1. A transportation network able to provide or operate trucks, buses, or cars 2. An intelligence network (plane spotters) to provide information on objectives and routes 3. A shelter network- safehouses, farms, etc to house pathfinders or advanced forces 4. A logistics network to organize food, fuels, etc. This lets the officers be more efficient and achieve a greater economy of effort. Some or all of the networks can be combined with “allied trades”, such as smugglers, organized crime, etc. if the officers are really good at what they do, the have agent networks (cut outs) set up to manage the activities of the sub networks, allowing the officers to continue to operate in cover after a large operation. Of course, while an officer can expect to be exfiltrated or otherwise have provisions for their welfare made, an agent can be disposed of once they cease to be of further utility... I didn't see that role for them. However, thinking on it, I like the idea of them being dragged - against their will - into fulfilling a role as part of the shelter network. This will mean that the two of them, loyal officers, will be doing what traitors-natives would doing but those at the top of the operation get more reliability there. I agree that those at the bottom end of the pile, the natives, will be getting a rapid end when their usefulness is done.
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James G
Squadron vice admiral
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Post by James G on Nov 3, 2019 13:12:59 GMT
Map showing where we are in West Germany at H+48. Pink areas - note not fully under control in every sense - were held at about H+30 / H+36. Orange areas are recent conquests. (click on map to enlarge)
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lordroel
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Post by lordroel on Nov 3, 2019 13:22:27 GMT
Map showing where we are in West Germany at H+48. Pink areas - note not fully under control in every sense - were held at about H+30 / H+36. Orange areas are recent conquests. (click on map to enlarge) View AttachmentNice map, seems the Netherlands 1st Corps needs to do their own Dunkirk evacuation soon.
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James G
Squadron vice admiral
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Post by James G on Nov 3, 2019 13:25:34 GMT
Map showing where we are in West Germany at H+48. Pink areas - note not fully under control in every sense - were held at about H+30 / H+36. Orange areas are recent conquests. (click on map to enlarge) Nice map, seems the Netherlands 1st Corps needs to do their own Dunkirk evacuation soon. Oh no. That is only one brigade there and there is no way out. The rest of the Dutch Army - three divisions - have started moving into West Germany but will find itself fighting on home soil very soon.
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James G
Squadron vice admiral
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Post by James G on Nov 3, 2019 18:05:34 GMT
127 – Ambush in the English Channel
The Royal Navy wasn’t waiting for dawn to get out to sea. Daylight would mean too many eyes able to observe the departures from Devonport and Plymouth as the ships left those already targeted bases. Instead, moorings were slipped in the early hours with warships being guided out in the darkness by harbour pilots. A flotilla departed each base with transfers due to take place between each out in the English Channel. Two task groups were being formed up: one going eastwards with the destination being the Norwegian Sea and the other heading towards the North Atlantic out to the west. There were aircraft carriers, destroyers, frigates and support ships. Late to the party, the Royal Navy was determined to make a big impact on the war. That wasn’t to be though. There was an ambush ready and waiting for them.
Not long before the sun began to rise, the two distinct task groups had taken shape. They were each beginning to start moving too with several ships already sailing out ahead. The carriers were taking on aircraft at this time. HMS Illustrious and HMS Ark Royal had each left Portsmouth without their Sea Harrier FRS1 attack-fighters. Flying from land bases, those Sea Harriers were coming out now and making their landings. It was during this difficult and dangerous process (night landings always were) when the Soviet Navy struck. There had been a set of eyes on land, a GRU officer alerted by an agent in-place at Portsmouth, who had spotted the departure using stolen and expensive night vision gear of the two carriers making their way towards the sea. He’d made a broadcast afterwards using a powerful transmitter which linked to a satellite. The haste he was forced to employ by his masters and with the British being on high alert for something like this, he was nabbed soon afterwards by a detachment of armed Regulators (the Royal Navy’s police) supported by a MI-5 team. By then though, he’d already made his broadcast and started the process of destroying his signalling equipment. The word was out that the British ships were at sea. Onwards the message had gone, to a waiting submarine at the western end of the English Channel. This was the K-148, an Oscar-class missile boat and a sister to the sunken K-208 which had hit the US Navy so hard the other day in the Arabian Sea. The former aimed to do what the latter had done: sink a NATO carrier, even two. It took some time to get a firm fix on the Royal Navy ships and this was done despite the presence in the skies nearby of both RAF and French Navy maritime patrol aircraft hunting for any submarines. When the targets were acquired, the K-148 launched. Twelve SS-N-19 Shipwreck cruise missiles were fired. Two quickly failed but the other ten tore onwards.
HMS Exeter was in action once again. The destroyer had knocked down several cruise missiles yesterday evening over the English Channel and aimed to repeat that feat when the radar operators spotted more. The Shipwrecks were very different from the AS-6 Kingfishes. They came in lower and manoeuvred defensively, even sacrificing themselves to protect others. The swarm process was a difficult thing to achieve and there was the interception of one of them hit by a Sea Dart that the Exeter got in among the group of low-flying missiles. However, the other nine raced towards where Illustrious was. Close-in escorts fired Sea Wolf SAMs and there was the launch of chaff into the sky. The Royal Navy only had a few minutes to react. They used that time well though. Anti-missiles guns – the Goalkeeper and the Phalanx – were fitted to ships and they fired hundreds upon hundreds of high explosive rounds into the sky to join the Sea Wolf missiles. Two more Shipwrecks were shot down. Seven were left though.
Illustrious was hit five times with the helicopter support ship RFA Engadine drawing another two. The inbound cruise missiles weren’t ‘wasted’ in hitting any of the other ships nearby. Those were important vessels, but the two aviation-capable ships were the priority targets for them. Each Shipwreck carried a 1600lb warhead and came in to strike its target at a speed of Mach 1.6. Neither British vessel could survive hits from such weapons as these. Engadine was blown in half. The bigger Illustrious was set alight from bow to stern. Hundreds of Royal Navy and Royal Fleet Auxiliary sailors were already dead with many more soon to join them among the burning remains of each vessel.
The K-148 went after Ark Royal too. Inbound aircraft had been waved off and the carrier was racing away eastwards towards the Straits of Dover. Behind her, escorts were positioned to shoot at incoming missiles and were also doing all that they could to locate the Soviet Oscar before she could fire again. The Fleet Air Arm helicopters flying from several destroyers and frigates were all over the water while above them there were further maritime patrol aircraft. Torpedoes and depth charges were lined up ready to drop on that submarine as missiles and guns were held in firing position to launch against other Shipwrecks. Time ticked away. The Ark Royal was at near full speed. There was no time for anyone to hold their breath in waiting, there was just too much to do. Onboard the K-148, strenuous efforts were underway to locate the fleeing target. Illustrious and Engadine had been ‘easy’ kills but that other Royal Navy carrier was providing more difficult to find. Finally, it was thought that the Ark Royal was in sight. Eight more missiles were readied to fire. Shouts of alarm came first: ‘torpedoes in the water!’. From above, one of those RAF Nimrod MR2 – flying out of RAF St. Mawgan in Cornwall – dropped Sting Ray torpedoes. The K-148 dove deeper than it was, ejecting noise makers into the water. This at once drew even more attention to the submarine, but there was nothing else that could be done. It worked too. The torpedoes were avoided and the K-148 escaped destruction. So did the Ark Royal though as she managed to get away from the ambush which had wiped out her sister-ship. As to that Nimrod, along with a pair of French Atlantique-2s, the airborne hunt for the Oscar went onwards in what ultimately was a fruitless effort. The RAF aircrew hadn’t used all of the weapons at their disposal. There was a depth charge within the Nimrod and it was one of the naval-rolled WE.177s: that would have done the job that the torpedoes had failed to do. Permission for nuclear weapons release was withheld though.
The Engadine was finished but the Illustrious was still afloat. There were many sailors aboard the carrier still alive. Evacuation efforts took place following the massed missile attack. Several warships were ordered away with clear instructions that they had priority missions: unfortunately, attempting to save the lives of their fellow sailors wasn’t one of those priorities. There was still a war going on – it hadn’t ended when the Illustrious was hit – and an enemy submarine out there. Other vessels were tasked to move in to assist with the efforts to save as many lives as possible.
Few men came off the burning carrier unwounded. Burns victims were everywhere. Many lessons had been learnt by the Royal Navy after ships had been hit in the Falklands resulting in fire. The material of uniforms had been changed and evacuation efforts had got a real-life exercise. Still… the numbers of men suffered from the effects of fire were huge. Then there were all those others who gained injuries following the shock damage spread throughout the ship upon the force of impact. Broken bones, concussions and crush injuries were aplenty. Others had been saved by their fellow sailors from suffocating in the smoke but weren’t in a good shape at all. The wounded and unwounded helped get as many men off as possible onto ships which came nearby and also several helicopters as well. Yet, others were left behind with evacuation not coming in time for them. There were plenty of sailors who were pulled alive from burning parts of the ship but died before they could get off. There was no capability and no time to remove the dead: only the living could get off the Illustrious.
The fires kept on burning as the carrier consumed itself. The island superstructure collapsed inwards, down through the already ripped flight-deck. The metalwork of the Illustrious was melting. A last hurrah was made to get everyone off who could be before it was impossible to continue. The fire waited for no one though. It moved at its own speed, killing rescuers and those who came very close to being saved. The evacuation finally had to be cancelled. There was no longer any recognisable form of a ship: just a burning lump of metal that the sea would eventually take.
Casualties arrived ashore throughout the morning. The majority went to Portsmouth though the French would take a few across the Channel to Cherbourg. News of what had happened out on the water was something that was supposed to be a military secret. Word would spread fast through the Royal Navy though, even beyond in time. The deaths of more than five hundred sailors and the injuries sustained by three hundred more – plus the sudden missing carrier too – weren’t something that could be hidden.
Ark Royal’s escorts would catch up and the task group would reform on the other side of the Straits of Dover to head northwards. Ships that were supposed to be formed around the centrepiece that was the Illustrious would still go out into the North Atlantic regardless of the now absent carrier. Back in the English Channel, that unsuccessful hunt for the Oscar would go on long after the submarine departed to also go out into the open ocean. Not knowing for certain that the Shipwreck-armed boat was gone would throw a spanner in the works for other things though. A mass of shipping – RFA vessels but also civilian vessels – was in the Solent: the sheltered stretch of water behind the Isle of Wright. At Portsmouth, Southampton and also the smaller Marchwood (a military harbour) these ships had been loading on the equipment and stores for the British Army’s 1st Infantry Brigade. Its Jutland mission had been scrubbed and the brigade was meant to go to West Germany by way of Zeebrugge in Belgium. Personnel wouldn’t be going by sea but everything else would be and was all aboard these ships. A delay was now imposed before the ships could sail. The Soviet Navy had unintentionally kept the 1st Brigade inside the UK; soon enough, the Soviet VDV would have the uncomfortable experience of finding out the hard way that these British regulars hadn’t left the British mainland and would fight on home soil.
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lordbyron
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Post by lordbyron on Nov 3, 2019 18:31:59 GMT
Oh, this is getting even worse...
Good update...
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lordroel
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Post by lordroel on Nov 3, 2019 18:58:09 GMT
Oh, this is getting even worse... Good update... Second that.
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James G
Squadron vice admiral
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Post by James G on Nov 3, 2019 19:50:02 GMT
Oh, this is getting even worse... Good update... Put your hands over your eyes in the next few days as the war machine rides onwards, blasting everything in sight! Thanks. More to come soon enough.
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stevep
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Post by stevep on Nov 3, 2019 20:05:09 GMT
Oh, this is getting even worse... Good update...
Agree on both points but there is the saving grace as James mentions that the brigade will find a more vital service at home.
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amir
Chief petty officer
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Post by amir on Nov 4, 2019 17:10:57 GMT
Might be a bad day for the VDV once 1 UK BDE gets there through persistent chem and infrastructure damage.
That said, there will still be quite a bit of panic, as a BMD or 2S9 fits the classic “tracks, turret, gun” profile and the other carrier variants just appear to be more “tanks” to folks who are hiding listening to track noise. Add in that the VDV will likely try to move on multiple routes and seize multiple intermediate objectives to avoid bottlenecks and maintain momentum and suddenly there are “hordes of Soviet tanks out there”. Add in that the VDV will likely be trying to avoid decisive contact until they arrive at their final objectives, so they will be a bit slippery. Now the horde will be everywhere and nowhere.
However, it may get dicey for Team VDV once 1st UK BDE enters the fight- I think the descriptor for any VDV AFV hit by a 120mm HESH is “vaporized”. Plus there’s armored recce, artillery, and infantry all with good supply lines. The VDV is a well trained, well equipped, generally decently led conscript force fighting a well trained, well equipped, generally well led (mostly) professional force on home ground. Tough fight for both formations.
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James G
Squadron vice admiral
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Post by James G on Nov 4, 2019 19:50:40 GMT
Oh, this is getting even worse... Good update...
Agree on both points but there is the saving grace as James mentions that the brigade will find a more vital service at home.
Vital service it will really be: the only regulars in a force of such size left in the country. Britain will spend tremendous effort in the few hours before the landings getting other good troops across the Channel. Might be a bad day for the VDV once 1 UK BDE gets there through persistent chem and infrastructure damage. That said, there will still be quite a bit of panic, as a BMD or 2S9 fits the classic “tracks, turret, gun” profile and the other carrier variants just appear to be more “tanks” to folks who are hiding listening to track noise. Add in that the VDV will likely try to move on multiple routes and seize multiple intermediate objectives to avoid bottlenecks and maintain momentum and suddenly there are “hordes of Soviet tanks out there”. Add in that the VDV will likely be trying to avoid decisive contact until they arrive at their final objectives, so they will be a bit slippery. Now the horde will be everywhere and nowhere. However, it may get dicey for Team VDV once 1st UK BDE enters the fight- I think the descriptor for any VDV AFV hit by a 120mm HESH is “vaporized”. Plus there’s armored recce, artillery, and infantry all with good supply lines. The VDV is a well trained, well equipped, generally decently led conscript force fighting a well trained, well equipped, generally well led (mostly) professional force on home ground. Tough fight for both formations. A very similar situation had just been seen in West Germany. One of those VDV columns - with tanks attached too - did cause utter panic and went flying forward. The 11th Armoured Brigade gave them a fight in the end though, shattering them completely... unfortunately a Soviet tank division showed up the next afternoon. The latter cannot and will not happen in the UK. I am attaching some tanks to the invasion force: just a battalion (31 in number) of T-62s from a GSFG ind. regiment. They will be airlifted in, taking up room for them & gear on aircraft, and will try to make a difference. There are many more tanks in the UK though: British Army ones, even some West German Leopard-1s based in Wales!
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James G
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Post by James G on Nov 4, 2019 19:52:01 GMT
128 – Big red buttons
Unsteady hands wavered over (metaphorical) big red buttons.
The Rhine had been crossed, successfully too, in several places with Soviet entry made into the western side of the Rhineland which had included the capture of Bonn. Downstream, it was being approached in force in the Mannheim-Karlsruhe area with a second set of crossings likely to occur soon enough there. Elsewhere within West Germany, the majority of pre-deployed NATO forces had either been beaten or surrounded. The battlefield was a chemical one with gas being employed in mass attacks that had also taken the lives of civilians throughout West Germany and beyond. Soviet forces had yet to be beaten. They’d been held in many places, but no large formations had been defeated. They continued to bring in more troops from behind the Iron Curtain. NATO reinforcements were arriving but few were yet to reach the battlefield: when they were, they were split up all over the place and had already taken losses on the way. Early on the morning of the war’s third day, to many the conflict looked lost with regard to turning back the Soviet steamroller than had overrun half of West Germany. The fight was certain to soon move into the Low Countries and France. Despondency was wide across NATO governments and certain elements of their armed forces. There had been a few victories achieved but none of them had meant much for long.
The use of nuclear weapons was being now being requested as a means to avert the fall of Western Europe.
France’s senior-most military officer, the Chief of the Defence Staff General Saulnier, put to his president a plan of action. Pluton short-range ballistic missiles as well as Jaguar strike-fighters were to make a massed attack inside West Germany against Soviet forces there. Tactical warheads would be used with the strikes made behind the lead Soviet units closest to France rather than at the frontlines. Care would be taken to avoid civilian casualties but those were still certain to occur regardless. With less vigour in how he proposed it, yet still with utmost seriousness, SACEUR also requested that NATO units make nuclear attacks also in West Germany against Soviet forces. The intention was to strike deeper, hitting Soviet forces moving towards battle as their second- & third-waves. General Rogers wanted to use missiles and aircraft too with not just American forces involved in the planned attacks but for other NATO allies to also do so with munitions made available under NATO Nuclear Sharing.
President’s Mitterrand & Reagan, as well as other key decision-makers such as Prime Minister Whitelaw and NATO Secretary-General Carrington, were all engaged in hasty talks as to whether to follow these proposals put forward. Mitterrand informed his allies of what his military was urging him to do on this rather than keeping the matter secret: he wasn’t surprised to find that the other NATO countries were all considering doing the same thing. None of these leaders wanted to make use of nuclear weapons though. They were already looking for a way out. Saulnier and Rogers, in addition to other top-level military officers in the know, didn’t allow their political masters into deluding themselves that this plan was fool-proof. It would change the military situation on the battlefield, those in uniform said, but was ‘extremely likely’ to bring about a nuclear response from the Soviets themselves: the chance of them not doing so was regarded as ‘miniscule’. It was thus expected that opening French & NATO nuclear strikes would be met with Soviet ones afterwards. Still though, even with it being near certain that the Soviets would return fire, it was said that the pressing need was there to make use of nuclear weapons to influence the course of the war in NATO’s favour.
The West Germans weren’t cut out of these discussions for long. It was agreed among their allies that their input should be sought. It was their country in which those attacks would be made. Carrington – once Britain’s foreign secretary and for the past three years in his NATO position in Brussels – correctly predicted just what the West Germans would say. The response was pretty much what Carrington said it would be: ‘hell, no you bloody well won’t!’.
Manfred Wörner (the country’s defence minister) had taken over the chancellorship following Kohl’s breakdown and the forced disappearance of Genscher. Wörner and his government had moved down to a military site outside of Saarbrucken after the crossing of the Rhine meant that the Regierungsbunker wasn’t that far from the frontlines. There was no way that Wörner would countenance such a thing. He said that he didn’t care about long-standing French nuclear policy or what Rogers said about incoming Soviet tank armies ready to join the fight. West Germany was still capable of fighting and not beaten yet. The armed forces of her allies weren’t beaten either, were they? West Germany shouldn’t be blasted to atomic ruin because territory could be retaken and the tide turned using conventional means. Rather than using nukes, he asked rhetorically, shouldn’t they all just blow their brains out if they thought that the situation was that bad?
West Germany’s chancellor added too that there were members of his government who would rather see a separate peace with the Soviet Union that see the country a nuclear battlefield. Fighting off interruptions from aboard over the conference call, Wörner said that he didn’t mean he was prepared to abandon the war, but he meant unnamed others. In such a situation, he couldn’t guarantee that the Bundeswehr wouldn’t do everything in their power to stop a NATO nuclear attack too. Those elsewhere weren’t sure if he was bluffing here… Wörner then spoke of the fight that NATO still had in it: united and using conventional weapons. The full armies of America, Britain and France had yet to see action. The Belgians, the Danes and the Dutch had yet to get everyone to the frontlines too. Canada, Italy, Portugal and Spain all had their distant armies too with their governments promising all that they could to defeat the ongoing Soviet invasion. West Germany still had many more reservists, mobilisation issues notwithstanding.
We can keep on fighting, Wörner concluded, rather than seeing atoms split and what he said was the sure-fire rapid escalation from tactical nuclear strikes to city-busters.
The comments from Saarbrucken lit a fire under allies. The allusions that Wörner had made of a separate peace had caused some upset but he hadn’t come out and directly said that that was going to happen. Instead, the focus from his country’s allies was on the continuing ability to keep on fighting without resorting to nuclear weapons. Mitterrand, Reagan and Whitelaw had been talked round. France’s president could point to the fact that much of the French Army had yet to get into the fight and the situation in the Rhineland could be reversed. America’s president was well aware that REFORGER was still ongoing despite Soviet attacks against those forces moving into Europe. Britain’s wartime prime minister – as aghast at the idea as Wörner was of nuclear attacks – believed that there still could be a change made on the battlefield as NATO got more troops there: he hadn’t been active in support of either French or NATO strikes though wouldn’t have opposed them either. Finally, Carrington was able to remind the others that every single NATO member remained committed to the fighting and there would be little support, even outright hostility, to do anything like that without full West German backing.
The decision was thus taken to not go ahead with the nuclear option. Rogers and Saulnier were denied the permission that they had sought. Soviet forces wouldn’t be attacked with nukes this morning.
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