insect
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Post by insect on Jun 25, 2019 1:49:20 GMT
How would this affect the civil war if the union had lost battle of Carnifex Ferry.??  "> |
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stevep
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Post by stevep on Jun 25, 2019 10:22:45 GMT
How would this affect the civil war if the union had lost battle of Carnifex Ferry.?? ">
Insect
It would be best if you gave some background info or say a link to the event, by Wiki, see Battle_of_Carnifex_Ferry so that people know what your talking about please.
Not sure how the union could have lost given the problems they caused with their artillery but if somehow they did how much of an effect would it have had on the issue of loyalty of W Virginia as most of what - albeit limited - I know about it the region that became that state was pretty strongly unionist? Could the rebel forces have held in such an exposed position even with widespread local support, especially since it would have to become a very high priority target for the union.
It might delay progress for the north and possibly have an impact down the line but suspect that Floyd's forces would have been driven from the region fairly quickly, especially given the differences mentioned with his co-commander.
Steve
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lordroel
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Post by lordroel on Jun 25, 2019 13:30:52 GMT
How would this affect the civil war if the union had lost battle of Carnifex Ferry.?? "> Insect It would be best if you gave some background info or say a link to the event, by Wiki, see Battle_of_Carnifex_Ferry so that people know what your talking about please. Not sure how the union could have lost given the problems they caused with their artillery but if somehow they did how much of an effect would it have had on the issue of loyalty of W Virginia as most of what - albeit limited - I know about it the region that became that state was pretty strongly unionist? Could the rebel forces have held in such an exposed position even with widespread local support, especially since it would have to become a very high priority target for the union. It might delay progress for the north and possibly have an impact down the line but suspect that Floyd's forces would have been driven from the region fairly quickly, especially given the differences mentioned with his co-commander. Steve
True, insect , please give more information when posting a what if,asking a question is easy, giving your opinion would help in the discussion. Reading the Wikipedia article stevep, if the Union loses Battle of Carnifex Ferry it might effect the creation of West Virginia. |
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stevep
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Post by stevep on Jun 25, 2019 14:41:22 GMT
Insect It would be best if you gave some background info or say a link to the event, by Wiki, see Battle_of_Carnifex_Ferry so that people know what your talking about please. Not sure how the union could have lost given the problems they caused with their artillery but if somehow they did how much of an effect would it have had on the issue of loyalty of W Virginia as most of what - albeit limited - I know about it the region that became that state was pretty strongly unionist? Could the rebel forces have held in such an exposed position even with widespread local support, especially since it would have to become a very high priority target for the union. It might delay progress for the north and possibly have an impact down the line but suspect that Floyd's forces would have been driven from the region fairly quickly, especially given the differences mentioned with his co-commander. Steve
True, insect , please give more information when posting a what if,asking a question is easy, giving your opinion would help in the discussion. Reading the Wikipedia article stevep , if the Union loses Battle of Carnifex Ferry it might effect the creation of West Virginia.
Lordroel
Possibly although it depends on the feeling on the ground and how long they could hold on there. Most of what little I've come across seems to suggest that the 'loyalist' element that preferred to stay in the union was a lot stronger than the secessionist faction, although its possible that could be a later 'interpretation of the facts and with something to rally around there might be more pro-southern forces. However I think a fair amount of the state [i.e. what became W Virginia] is likely to stay in the union.
Also the description about the battle it mentions that what caused Floyd's rebels to withdraw was the union artillery which suggests that the rebels had no effective artillery of their own. If so I can't see them lasting long in such a position.
It might be that heavier fighting in the region delays the establishment of W Virginia and ties down some more unionist forces. However unless there's some sort of cascade effect, say in triggering much larger scale unrest in western Maryland and possibly more importantly Kentucky, which would give the union a markedly harder fight I doubt a larger 'success' for the south an Carnifex Ferry would have any lasting impact on the war.
PS insect, insect, have you tried mentioning it on civilwartalk.com/, which is a site specifically for the USCW. I'm only really there for the AH section of it but some ideas get discussed. Your likely to have not only more people able to respond as it seems like a pretty large site, but also a lot of them seem very knowledgeable. 
Steve
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lordroel
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Post by lordroel on Jun 26, 2019 15:32:30 GMT
True, insect , please give more information when posting a what if,asking a question is easy, giving your opinion would help in the discussion. Reading the Wikipedia article stevep , if the Union loses Battle of Carnifex Ferry it might effect the creation of West Virginia. Lordroel Possibly although it depends on the feeling on the ground and how long they could hold on there. Most of what little I've come across seems to suggest that the 'loyalist' element that preferred to stay in the union was a lot stronger than the secessionist faction, although its possible that could be a later 'interpretation of the facts and with something to rally around there might be more pro-southern forces. However I think a fair amount of the state [i.e. what became W Virginia] is likely to stay in the union. Also the description about the battle it mentions that what caused Floyd's rebels to withdraw was the union artillery which suggests that the rebels had no effective artillery of their own. If so I can't see them lasting long in such a position. It might be that heavier fighting in the region delays the establishment of W Virginia and ties down some more unionist forces. However unless there's some sort of cascade effect, say in triggering much larger scale unrest in western Maryland and possibly more importantly Kentucky, which would give the union a markedly harder fight I doubt a larger 'success' for the south an Carnifex Ferry would have any lasting impact on the war. PS insect, insect, have you tried mentioning it on civilwartalk.com/, which is a site specifically for the USCW. I'm only really there for the AH section of it but some ideas get discussed. Your likely to have not only more people able to respond as it seems like a pretty large site, but also a lot of them seem very knowledgeable. Steve
Something i found on Quora about West Virginia.
The eastern panhandle of West Virginia was included in the formation of the state because of the B&O Railroad. Making those counties part of WV and the Union removed the entire B&O Railroad from the Confederacy.
The railroad was important in moving Union supplies and troops. It also made it difficult to supply Confederate units throughout the war.
Confederate and Union troops were about equal in 1861. In 1863, the Union had about twice as many soldiers.
Without WV becoming a state the B&O Railroad may have been part of the Confederacy, allowing them to keep Union troops and supplies from being delivered and giving them the advantage and possibly leading to them winning the war. |
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stevep
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Post by stevep on Jun 26, 2019 21:58:34 GMT
Lordroel Possibly although it depends on the feeling on the ground and how long they could hold on there. Most of what little I've come across seems to suggest that the 'loyalist' element that preferred to stay in the union was a lot stronger than the secessionist faction, although its possible that could be a later 'interpretation of the facts and with something to rally around there might be more pro-southern forces. However I think a fair amount of the state [i.e. what became W Virginia] is likely to stay in the union. Also the description about the battle it mentions that what caused Floyd's rebels to withdraw was the union artillery which suggests that the rebels had no effective artillery of their own. If so I can't see them lasting long in such a position. It might be that heavier fighting in the region delays the establishment of W Virginia and ties down some more unionist forces. However unless there's some sort of cascade effect, say in triggering much larger scale unrest in western Maryland and possibly more importantly Kentucky, which would give the union a markedly harder fight I doubt a larger 'success' for the south an Carnifex Ferry would have any lasting impact on the war. PS insect, insect , have you tried mentioning it on civilwartalk.com/, which is a site specifically for the USCW. I'm only really there for the AH section of it but some ideas get discussed. Your likely to have not only more people able to respond as it seems like a pretty large site, but also a lot of them seem very knowledgeable. Steve
Something i found on Quora about West Virginia.
The eastern panhandle of West Virginia was included in the formation of the state because of the B&O Railroad. Making those counties part of WV and the Union removed the entire B&O Railroad from the Confederacy.
The railroad was important in moving Union supplies and troops. It also made it difficult to supply Confederate units throughout the war.
Confederate and Union troops were about equal in 1861. In 1863, the Union had about twice as many soldiers.
Without WV becoming a state the B&O Railroad may have been part of the Confederacy, allowing them to keep Union troops and supplies from being delivered and giving them the advantage and possibly leading to them winning the war.
Lordroel
What became W Virginia was important strategically, for the reasons you mentioned and also that it gave a salient deep into union territory that could pose a threat of isolating the east coast from the rest of the country, since only Ohio was north of it. Also it threatened the flank of Kentucky in the west and further threatened the exposed position of Washington DC to the east.
However from most of what I've read the unionist support considerably exceeded the confederate support in the region. As such without an occupation that the south couldn't really afford in the early stages, as both armies were starting very much from scratch, it would be very difficult to hold the state.
Steve
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