James G
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Post by James G on Aug 17, 2019 17:41:27 GMT
A tasty novel indeed. I plan to add more to it: the Poles and others. Then there is the Russian side too. But not the Germans,French ore Dutch who decided to stick World War III out, which in the novel is not liked much by the American administration. IIRC it was France, Germany, Belgium, Netherlands, Luxembourg, Denmark, Norway, Spain and Portugal which all stayed out. The US, Canada, Britain, Iceland, Poland, Czechia, Slovakia, Hungary, Italy, Greece and Turkey were all involved: Finland joined later and I think Japan was in the war like South Korea was. The Americans threatened France and Germany with war over their actions of blocking US supplies through Europe. Legally, Western Europe was in the right to do this too but politically it was quite the issue. |
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lordroel
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Post by lordroel on Aug 17, 2019 17:49:09 GMT
But not the Germans,French ore Dutch who decided to stick World War III out, which in the novel is not liked much by the American administration. IIRC it was France, Germany, Belgium, Netherlands, Luxembourg, Denmark, Norway, Spain and Portugal which all stayed out. The US, Canada, Britain, Iceland, Poland, Czechia, Slovakia, Hungary, Italy, Greece and Turkey were all involved: Finland joined later and I think Japan was in the war like South Korea was. The Americans threatened France and Germany with war over their actions of blocking US supplies through Europe. Legally, Western Europe was in the right to do this too but politically it was quite the issue. Yes i remember, have to check the novel, that Japan landed on Sakhalin and found starving Russian soldiers. Also remember that they had something called the Rotterdam corridor which was the main supply line starting in Rotterdam, with the Netherlands only allowing the use of Rotterdam as a port for supplies under some protest. |
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stevep
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Post by stevep on Aug 17, 2019 21:14:05 GMT
But not the Germans,French ore Dutch who decided to stick World War III out, which in the novel is not liked much by the American administration. IIRC it was France, Germany, Belgium, Netherlands, Luxembourg, Denmark, Norway, Spain and Portugal which all stayed out. The US, Canada, Britain, Iceland, Poland, Czechia, Slovakia, Hungary, Italy, Greece and Turkey were all involved: Finland joined later and I think Japan was in the war like South Korea was. The Americans threatened France and Germany with war over their actions of blocking US supplies through Europe. Legally, Western Europe was in the right to do this too but politically it was quite the issue.
So had NATO collapsed before the Soviet attack or did those nations avoid being attacked and decided to ignore their alliance commitments?
Unless its more an operation to provide relief in a totally devastated Russia I can't see something like 15-20 divisions to be enough. They can probably smash most remaining Russia forces but their too few to hold any ground. Or is it a kind of smash and grab type operation to either get the people responsible for the war and/or remove any further capacity for Russian nuclear attacks on the allies?
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forcon
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Post by forcon on Aug 17, 2019 21:20:12 GMT
Great work on the ORBAT there James; I look forward to more related to that book. IIIR, though, there was no mention of Greek involvement in the book. Turkey offered to attack from the south if Armenis sided with Moscow, but nothing more on that was mentioned. For all we know, Turkey opened up another front! I can also vaguely remember that the 24th Mech was active in Kola and I suspect the Marine reserve units would go there as well. The Draft was activated as well, so there would be reactivated units going to war.
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James G
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Post by James G on Aug 17, 2019 21:42:04 GMT
IIRC it was France, Germany, Belgium, Netherlands, Luxembourg, Denmark, Norway, Spain and Portugal which all stayed out. The US, Canada, Britain, Iceland, Poland, Czechia, Slovakia, Hungary, Italy, Greece and Turkey were all involved: Finland joined later and I think Japan was in the war like South Korea was. The Americans threatened France and Germany with war over their actions of blocking US supplies through Europe. Legally, Western Europe was in the right to do this too but politically it was quite the issue.
So had NATO collapsed before the Soviet attack or did those nations avoid being attacked and decided to ignore their alliance commitments?
Unless its more an operation to provide relief in a totally devastated Russia I can't see something like 15-20 divisions to be enough. They can probably smash most remaining Russia forces but their too few to hold any ground. Or is it a kind of smash and grab type operation to either get the people responsible for the war and/or remove any further capacity for Russian nuclear attacks on the allies?
Nope, NATO is still there. Russia attacks the US with nukes by accident - its a confusing situation - and Western Europe backs out of fighting. The US is hopping mad but the Euros fear a second round of nukes, this time hitting them. Those I listed are joined by at least hard a dozen more from Eastern Europe and Italy. Still, not enough as you saw. However, most of Russia's armies are in China at the time as those two countries have long been at war. They march on Moscow, aiming to get there "before the first snows of winter" and do so too. Peace comes as Moscow falls and the Russian government agrees to be nuclear-disarmed under US supervision. The guy who fired on the US in the first place is long dead at Russian hands though the general-turned-president who fights the follow-up war is allowed to stay in-place. The novel is a pretty decent WW3 story and does explain it better than I have. Great work on the ORBAT there James; I look forward to more related to that book. IIIR, though, there was no mention of Greek involvement in the book. Turkey offered to attack from the south if Armenis sided with Moscow, but nothing more on that was mentioned. For all we know, Turkey opened up another front! I can also vaguely remember that the 24th Mech was active in Kola and I suspect the Marine reserve units would go there as well. The Draft was activated as well, so there would be reactivated units going to war. I've been thinking about it for a while. I think today in looking through the novel at speed I saw Greece mentioned as with the TEAMS alliance. I have the 24th in Europe but I fear you might be right at they went with the XVIII Corps coming at St. Peters the long way round. They did activate the draft though I don't believe any of them would have seen action by the war's end: they were certainty bringing in the national guard in force. |
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forcon
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Post by forcon on Aug 18, 2019 7:19:55 GMT
Yeah, the 24th was definitely with XVIII Corps coming down against St Pete from the north - I just had a cursory check in the novel. Would III Corps be able to function with just two heavy divisions?
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lordroel
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Post by lordroel on Aug 18, 2019 7:24:15 GMT
Yeah, the 24th was definitely with XVIII Corps coming down against St Pete from the north - I just had a cursory check in the novel. Would III Corps be able to function with just two heavy divisions? Question James G and forcon, would it not be wise to create separate thread. lets call it Arc Light - Orbats and discussions thread, just like The US Army get's it's act together post Ukraine! thread, reading the novel again, it is full of detail that can be fleshed out. |
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forcon
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Post by forcon on Aug 18, 2019 10:27:16 GMT
Yeah, the 24th was definitely with XVIII Corps coming down against St Pete from the north - I just had a cursory check in the novel. Would III Corps be able to function with just two heavy divisions? Question James G and forcon , would it not be wise to create separate thread. lets call it Arc Light - Orbats and discussions thread, just like The US Army get's it's act together post Ukraine! thread, reading the novel again, it is full of detail that can be fleshed out. That sounds like a good idea to me, but it's up to James. |
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lordroel
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Post by lordroel on Aug 18, 2019 10:29:29 GMT
Question James G and forcon , would it not be wise to create separate thread. lets call it Arc Light - Orbats and discussions thread, just like The US Army get's it's act together post Ukraine! thread, reading the novel again, it is full of detail that can be fleshed out. That sounds like a good idea to me, but it's up to James. Then we will wait for James G, to responds while i in the mean time are going hunting for my dog eaten novel who is lying somewhere. |
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forcon
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Post by forcon on Aug 18, 2019 10:30:34 GMT
British Army reorganisation: Very few units are actually being reactivated, so this wouldn't be difficult for the MOD to do. However, this is nearing ASB territory as it requires a few hours of common sense and clear thinking in Whitehall.
Allied Rapid Reaction Corps
Composite Helicopter Group
-1 Regiment Army Air Corps (Wildcat AH.1, Gazelle AH.1)
-4 Regiment Army Air Corps (WAH-64D Apache)
Patrol & Exploitation Group
-(AR) Honourable Artillery Company
-2 Military Intelligence Battalion
-21 (AR) Regiment Special Air Service
-23 (AR) Regiment Special Air Service
1st Intelligence & Surveillance Brigade
-1 Military Intelligence Battalion
-4 Military Intelligence Battalion
-5 Regiment Royal Artillery
-7 (AR) Military Intelligence Battalion
-14 Signal Regiment Royal Corps of Signals
1st Artillery Brigade
-1 Regiment Royal Horse Artillery (AS-90)
-26 Regiment Royal Artillery (M270)
-101 (AR) Regiment Royal Artillery (M270)
1 Military Police Brigade
-1 Regiment Royal Military Police
-3 Regiment Royal Military Police
2 Medical Brigade
-3 Medical Regiment
-4 Armoured Medical Regiment
-201 (AR) Field Hospital
-306 (AR) Hospital Support Regiment
7 Air Defence Group
-12 Regiment Royal Artillery (Starstreak)
-16 Regiment Royal Artillery (Rapier)
-106 (AR) Regiment Royal Artillery (Starstreak)
8 Engineer Brigade
-28 CBRN Engineer Regiment, Royal Engineers
-32 Engineer Regiment, Royal Engineers
-36 Engineer Regiment, Royal Engineers
-75 (AR) Engineer Regiment, Royal Engineers
11 Signals Brigade
-16 Signals Regiment Royal Corps of Signals
-39 Signals Regiment Royal Corps of Signals
102 Logistics Support Brigade
-1 Close Support Regiment Royal Logistics Corps
-6 Armoured Close Support Battalion REME
-27 Regiment Royal Logistics Corps
-154 (AR) Regiment Royal Logistics Corps
-159 (AR) Supply Regiment Royal Logistics Corps
Rapidly Deployable Force
7 Infantry Brigade
-1 Welsh Guards
-1 Royal Irish Regiment
-2 The Rifles
-2 Princess of Wales Royal Regiment
16 Air Assault Brigade
-1 Royal Gurkha Rifles
-2 The Parachute Regiment
-3 The Parachute Regiment
-4 (AR) The Parachute Regiment
-23 Parachute Regiment, Royal Engineers
-13 Air Assault Support Regiment Royal Logistics Corps
-16 Medical Regiment, Royal Army Medical Corps
-7 Regiment Royal Horse Artillery (L118)
1st Armoured Division
4 Armoured Brigade
-Household Cavalry Regiment (Scimitar)
-Royal Tank Regiment (Challenger 2)
-1 Princess of Wales Royal Regiment (Warrior)
-2 Royal Anglian Regiment (Mastiff)
-4 Royal Regiment of Scotland (Warrior)
-1 Squadron, 5 Armoured Medical Regiment
-52 Armoured Engineer Squadron, 22 Engineer Regiment
-60 Squadron, 4 Regiment Royal Logistics Corps
-13 Battery, 19 Regiment Royal Artillery (AS-90, M270)
11 Mechanised Brigade
-The Light Dragoons (Jackal)
-1 Duke of Lancaster’s Regiment (Mastiff)
-2 Yorkshire Regiment (Foxhound)
-4 Mercian Regiment (Mastiff)
-1 Squadron, 2 Medical Regiment
-1 Field Squadron, 21 Engineer Regiment
-31 Squadron, 3 Regiment Royal Logistics Corps
-88 Battery, 4 Regiment Royal Horse Artillery (L118)
20 Armoured Brigade
-Royal Dragoon Guards (Scimitar)
-Queens Royal Hussars (Challenger 2)
-1 Mercian Regiment (Warrior)
-1 Scots Guards (Mastiff)
-5 The Rifles (Warrior)
-3 Squadron, 5 Armoured Medical Regiment
-33 Squadron, 4 Regiment Royal Logistics Corps
-3 Armoured Engineer Squadron, 22 Engineer Regiment
-5 Battery, 19 Regiment Royal Artillery (AS-90, M270)
3rd Mechanised Division
1 Mechanised Brigade
-Royal Scots Dragoon Guards (Jackal)
-1 Royal Anglian Regiment (Mastiff)
-2 Royal Regiment of Scotland (Mastiff)
-4 The Rifles (Foxhound)
-3 Squadron, 2 Medical Regiment
-20 Field Squadron, 20 Engineer Regiment
-29 Battery, 4 Regiment Royal Horse Artillery (L118)
5 Infantry Brigade
-Queen’s Dragoon Guards (Jackal)
-1 Grenadier Guards
-1 Coldstream Guards
-2 Royal Gurkha Rifles
-1 Squadron, 2 Medical Regiment
-21 Squadron, Royal Logistics Corps
-4 Field Squadron, 21 Engineer Regiment
12 Armoured Brigade
-The Royal Lancers (Scimitar)
-Kings Royal Hussars (Challenger 2)
-1 Royal Regiment of Fusiliers (Warrior)
-1 Yorkshire Regiment (Warrior)
-3 The Rifles (Mastiff)
-2 Squadron, 5 Armoured Medical Regiment
-4 Squadron, 4 Regiment Royal Logistics Corps
-5 Armoured Engineer Squadron, 22 Engineer Regiment
-127 Battery, 19 Regiment Royal Artillery (AS-90, M270)
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James G
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Post by James G on Aug 18, 2019 10:35:58 GMT
Yeah, the 24th was definitely with XVIII Corps coming down against St Pete from the north - I just had a cursory check in the novel. Would III Corps be able to function with just two heavy divisions? Question James G and forcon , would it not be wise to create separate thread. lets call it Arc Light - Orbats and discussions thread, just like The US Army get's it's act together post Ukraine! thread, reading the novel again, it is full of detail that can be fleshed out. Sure thing. I have no objection. |
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lordroel
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Post by lordroel on Aug 18, 2019 10:38:41 GMT
Question James G and forcon , would it not be wise to create separate thread. lets call it Arc Light - Orbats and discussions thread, just like The US Army get's it's act together post Ukraine! thread, reading the novel again, it is full of detail that can be fleshed out. Sure thing. I have no objection. Then i will make something, just give me a moment while i put the trolls at work. |
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forcon
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Post by forcon on Sept 10, 2019 21:29:38 GMT
British constribution to Operation Allied Resolve, the NATO intervention in the Turkish civil war, July 2016.
12 Armoured Brigade
-Royal Dragoon Guards (Scimitar)
-Royal Tank Regiment (Challenger 2)
-1 Fusiliers (Warrior)
-1 Grenadier Guards (Foxhound)
-2 Duke of Lancaster's Regiment (Light)
-5 Rifles (Warrior)
-19 Regiment Royal Artillery (AS90)
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James G
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Post by James G on Sept 11, 2019 19:26:57 GMT
British constribution to Operation Allied Resolve, the NATO intervention in the Turkish civil war, July 2016. 12 Armoured Brigade -Royal Dragoon Guards (Scimitar) -Royal Tank Regiment (Challenger 2) -1 Fusiliers (Warrior) -1 Grenadier Guards (Foxhound) -2 Duke of Lancaster's Regiment (Light) -5 Rifles (Warrior) -19 Regiment Royal Artillery (AS90) Turkish civil war! That will be bloody. Turkey is a well-armed country itself and has many borders over which interested parties could send arms. Yikes. |
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forcon
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Post by forcon on Sept 11, 2019 21:06:31 GMT
British constribution to Operation Allied Resolve, the NATO intervention in the Turkish civil war, July 2016. 12 Armoured Brigade -Royal Dragoon Guards (Scimitar) -Royal Tank Regiment (Challenger 2) -1 Fusiliers (Warrior) -1 Grenadier Guards (Foxhound) -2 Duke of Lancaster's Regiment (Light) -5 Rifles (Warrior) -19 Regiment Royal Artillery (AS90) Turkish civil war! That will be bloody. Turkey is a well-armed country itself and has many borders over which interested parties could send arms. Yikes. I hadn't thought about it all that much, I just plucked a scenario out of thin air to stick the ORBAT in - TL idea perhaps? |
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