mullauna
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Post by mullauna on Feb 24, 2019 10:07:01 GMT
German Emperor Friedrich III doesn't die of smoking-caused throat cancer. German and European history will be very different.
Australian politician and ALP leader Ben Chifley. He doesn't smoke so he doesn't die of heart disease. Unlike H. V. Evatt, he might be willing to negotiate with the right-wing Labor Catholics who split off to form the DLP so no 23 years in the electoral wilderness for Labor?
Chifley's predecessor John Curtin doesn't smoke. How are the late 1940s in Australia different with Curtin instead of Chifley?
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stevep
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Post by stevep on Feb 24, 2019 12:17:14 GMT
Friedrich III would definitely be a big change. George VI might also affect things if he lives say another decade and Elz II would still be waiting to celebrate her 60th year on the throne.
On a more trivial level, although liver disease might well get him given his drinking, Bogart could well last longer and produce a few more films.
Given how commonplace and often glamourised smoking was I suspect plenty of people, including a lot of ones who were influential, or even might have been would have lasted some time longer.
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lordroel
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Post by lordroel on Feb 24, 2019 12:20:34 GMT
Friedrich III would definitely be a big change. George VI might also affect things if he lives say another decade and Elz II would still be waiting to celebrate her 60th year on the throne. On a more trivial level, although liver disease might well get him given his drinking, Bogart could well last longer and produce a few more films. Given how commonplace and often glamourised smoking was I suspect plenty of people, including a lot of ones who were influential, or even might have been would have lasted some time longer.
Found this, think it is related to this thread: How Cancer Caused World War I
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stevep
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Post by stevep on Feb 24, 2019 13:34:17 GMT
Friedrich III would definitely be a big change. George VI might also affect things if he lives say another decade and Elz II would still be waiting to celebrate her 60th year on the throne. On a more trivial level, although liver disease might well get him given his drinking, Bogart could well last longer and produce a few more films. Given how commonplace and often glamourised smoking was I suspect plenty of people, including a lot of ones who were influential, or even might have been would have lasted some time longer.
Found this, think it is related to this thread: How Cancer Caused World War I
Some of the language is rather strident and there are a couple of clear errors * but in general there is markedly less chance of a war developing as OTL. You might have ended up with and Anglo-German-Austrian block v a Franco-Russian-Italian one, but suspect there would be less overall militarism and if such a war did come the central bloc is likely to be so much stronger and win fairly simply.
* by errors I mean a) The actual name of the dynasty was Saxe-Coburg not Hanover after Victoria's marriage to Albert. In fact on one TV quiz a few years back William IV was described as the last Hanoverian monarch. [Which is something I was dubious about although did some reading at the time on-line and that seemed to support the conclusion. Still think it odd that Victoria wasn't considered a member of the Hanoverian dynasty, if only prior to her marriage] Checking Wiki seems to agree with me but definitely by WWI the dynasty name wasn't Hanover.
b) In the run up to WWI Britain had a Liberal not a Labour government, although the author is correct that it wanted better terms with German to cut military spending and did cut back somewhat on it. There were attempts at negotiation and most people think there was an unofficial agreement on the issue for the years immediately prior to the war.
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lordroel
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Post by lordroel on Feb 24, 2019 14:06:04 GMT
Some of the language is rather strident and there are a couple of clear errors * but in general there is markedly less chance of a war developing as OTL. You might have ended up with and Anglo-German-Austrian block v a Franco-Russian-Italian one, but suspect there would be less overall militarism and if such a war did come the central bloc is likely to be so much stronger and win fairly simply. * by errors I mean a) The actual name of the dynasty was Saxe-Coburg not Hanover after Victoria's marriage to Albert. In fact on one TV quiz a few years back William IV was described as the last Hanoverian monarch. [Which is something I was dubious about although did some reading at the time on-line and that seemed to support the conclusion. Still think it odd that Victoria wasn't considered a member of the Hanoverian dynasty, if only prior to her marriage] Checking Wiki seems to agree with me but definitely by WWI the dynasty name wasn't Hanover. b) In the run up to WWI Britain had a Liberal not a Labour government, although the author is correct that it wanted better terms with German to cut military spending and did cut back somewhat on it. There were attempts at negotiation and most people think there was an unofficial agreement on the issue for the years immediately prior to the war.
But a longer reign for Friedrich III is an interesting and little-used POD do you not agree. Also it seems Stalin tended to smoked heavily for pretty much his entire adult life in OTL, him not smoking ore stopping might prevent him from getting atherosclerosis (a condition in which plaque builds up in the arteries), this condition leads to an increased risk of stroke, which of course is what killed Stalin (assuming he wasn't poisoned). If Stalin never takes up smoking ore stops early, he might probably lived longer, ore so i think.
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stevep
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Post by stevep on Feb 24, 2019 14:23:21 GMT
Some of the language is rather strident and there are a couple of clear errors * but in general there is markedly less chance of a war developing as OTL. You might have ended up with and Anglo-German-Austrian block v a Franco-Russian-Italian one, but suspect there would be less overall militarism and if such a war did come the central bloc is likely to be so much stronger and win fairly simply. * by errors I mean a) The actual name of the dynasty was Saxe-Coburg not Hanover after Victoria's marriage to Albert. In fact on one TV quiz a few years back William IV was described as the last Hanoverian monarch. [Which is something I was dubious about although did some reading at the time on-line and that seemed to support the conclusion. Still think it odd that Victoria wasn't considered a member of the Hanoverian dynasty, if only prior to her marriage] Checking Wiki seems to agree with me but definitely by WWI the dynasty name wasn't Hanover. b) In the run up to WWI Britain had a Liberal not a Labour government, although the author is correct that it wanted better terms with German to cut military spending and did cut back somewhat on it. There were attempts at negotiation and most people think there was an unofficial agreement on the issue for the years immediately prior to the war.
But a longer reign for Friedrich III is an interesting and little-used POD do you not agree.Also it seems Stalin tended to smoked heavily for pretty much his entire adult life in OTL, him not smoking ore stopping might prevent him from getting atherosclerosis (a condition in which plaque builds up in the arteries), this condition leads to an increased risk of stroke, which of course is what killed Stalin (assuming he wasn't poisoned). If Stalin never takes up smoking ore stops early, he might probably lived longer, ore so i think.
Definitely agree. Remember, albeit about a decade ago one of the moderators on AH had 2-3 related TLs where there was a dominant Anglo-German alliance. One where it was liberal, more where it went dark and militaristic and possibly a third somewhere in the middle. Think the POD for at least the liberal one, and possibly the others was Friedrich not getting cancer. Didn't realise until I read this article, should have mentioned in my earlier post, how easily his life could have been saved even then.
The idea of Stalin living even longer is rather worrying to be honest. A probably steadily more paranoid and nuclear armed Stalin is not a pleasant thought!
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lordroel
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Post by lordroel on Feb 24, 2019 14:27:37 GMT
The idea of Stalin living even longer is rather worrying to be honest. A probably steadily more paranoid and nuclear armed Stalin is not a pleasant thought!
He was 74 when he died, i would not want to be there 9 years later in 1962 if there is a same event like the Cuban Missile Crisis, if that happens under Stalin if he mange to reach the age of 83 as he might have to worry about Beria who would love to give Stalin a hart attack.
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insect
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Post by insect on Feb 26, 2019 5:58:04 GMT
Rod Serling takes up the revival of the 80s twilight zone
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lordroel
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Post by lordroel on Feb 26, 2019 16:03:55 GMT
Rod Serling takes up the revival of the 80s twilight zone That could be a possibility.
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