James G
Squadron vice admiral
Posts: 7,608 
Likes: 8,799
|
Post by James G on Nov 24, 2018 18:07:52 GMT
What would be the implications for the Confederacy, and the whole Civil War too, if Virginia didn't succeed from the Union?
Seven states - Alabama, Florida, Georgia, Louisiana, Mississippi, South Carolina and Texas - left first to form the CSA.
Then it was Virginia before Arkansas, Tennessee and North Carolina followed Virginia.
However there was major dissent in Virginia over succeeding. If they had stayed, would the following three still have left?
Could the CSA have successfully fought the USA without Virginia, but more so with Virginia and others which might follow against them too?
A shorter war?
|
|
lordroel
Administrator
Posts: 64,710
Likes: 45,793
|
Post by lordroel on Nov 24, 2018 18:23:54 GMT
What would be the implications for the Confederacy, and the whole Civil War too, if Virginia didn't succeed from the Union? Seven states - Alabama, Florida, Georgia, Louisiana, Mississippi, South Carolina and Texas - left first to form the CSA. Then it was Virginia before Arkansas, Tennessee and North Carolina followed Virginia. However there was major dissent in Virginia over succeeding. If they had stayed, would the following three still have left? Could the CSA have successfully fought the USA without Virginia, but more so with Virginia and others which might follow against them too? A shorter war? We could end up with this: W hat If: Robert E. Lee commands the Union Army Also Virginia is not split in two. |
|
stevep
Fleet admiral
Posts: 23,380
Likes: 11,999
|
Post by stevep on Nov 24, 2018 20:09:53 GMT
What would be the implications for the Confederacy, and the whole Civil War too, if Virginia didn't succeed from the Union? Seven states - Alabama, Florida, Georgia, Louisiana, Mississippi, South Carolina and Texas - left first to form the CSA. Then it was Virginia before Arkansas, Tennessee and North Carolina followed Virginia. However there was major dissent in Virginia over succeeding. If they had stayed, would the following three still have left? Could the CSA have successfully fought the USA without Virginia, but more so with Virginia and others which might follow against them too? A shorter war?
As I understand it Virginia initially declared neutrality in that while regretting the secession of the other states thought they should be allowed to leave unopposed and then voted to join them when Lincoln called for volunteers to suppress the rebels by force. As such to prevent Virginia leaving you would either have Lincoln not using force or Virginia not deciding to secede when Lincoln does call for volunteers. If the latter does Virginia stay neutral, as Kentucky did for a while or support the union?
|
|
kyng
Consul General
Posts: 1,097
Likes: 837
|
Post by kyng on Nov 25, 2018 19:42:38 GMT
Also Virginia is not split in two. I don't know: it might do. You could get a small fragment of it splitting off as "East Virginia", although that state would probably not last beyond the end of the war: it would probably just be reintegrated into Virginia. Also, what would a modern-day "Confederate flag" look like in this timeline? The one most commonly flown today ( this one) is based on the battle flag of the Army of Northern Virginia - which presumably wouldn't exist in this timeline. (Even if "East Virginia" was a thing, I'd be surprised if it included the northern portions of the state: they might claim it, but they wouldn't be able to hold it) |
|
lordroel
Administrator
Posts: 64,710
Likes: 45,793
|
Post by lordroel on Nov 25, 2018 19:44:26 GMT
Also Virginia is not split in two. I don't know: it might do. You could get a small fragment of it splitting off as "East Virginia", although that state would probably not last beyond the end of the war: it would probably just be reintegrated into Virginia. Also, what would a modern-day "Confederate flag" look like in this timeline? The one most commonly flown today ( this one) is based on the battle flag of the Army of Northern Virginia - which presumably wouldn't exist in this timeline. (Even if "East Virginia" was a thing, I'd be surprised if it included the northern portions of the state: they might claim it, but they wouldn't be able to hold it) You mean a small portion of Virginia that succeeds Virginia and join the CSA, that is new and interesting. |
|
James G
Squadron vice admiral
Posts: 7,608
Likes: 8,799
|
Post by James G on Nov 25, 2018 20:32:12 GMT
I don't know: it might do. You could get a small fragment of it splitting off as "East Virginia", although that state would probably not last beyond the end of the war: it would probably just be reintegrated into Virginia. Also, what would a modern-day "Confederate flag" look like in this timeline? The one most commonly flown today ( this one) is based on the battle flag of the Army of Northern Virginia - which presumably wouldn't exist in this timeline. (Even if "East Virginia" was a thing, I'd be surprised if it included the northern portions of the state: they might claim it, but they wouldn't be able to hold it) You mean a small portion of Virginia that succeeds Virginia and join the CSA, that is new and interesting. I was thinking that too. I can't see it surviving in a Union victory. Without Virginia, it seems, from what I've read since I posted the thread, that the CSA was doomed. The manpower and industrial additions to the Confederates from Virginia really were quite a lot indeed. |
|
stevep
Fleet admiral
Posts: 23,380
Likes: 11,999
|
Post by stevep on Nov 25, 2018 21:33:52 GMT
You mean a small portion of Virginia that succeeds Virginia and join the CSA, that is new and interesting. I was thinking that too. I can't see it surviving in a Union victory. Without Virginia, it seems, from what I've read since I posted the thread, that the CSA was doomed. The manpower and industrial additions to the Confederates from Virginia really were quite a lot indeed.
Very true unless the north marches into Virginia, as its on the way to the south, which might make it join the confederacy anyway but possibly with more support, possibly say no W Virginia break-away or alternatively they respect Virginia's neutrality - although I think this is unlikely, which makes it impossible for an 'eastern' front in the war. Also depending on the degree of Virginian neutrality its possible that some goods could be smuggled to the south via it. However overall a south without Virginia will be a lot weaker.
|
|
mcnutt
Chief petty officer
Posts: 162
Likes: 7
|
Post by mcnutt on Nov 27, 2018 17:49:40 GMT
The war begins with an invasion of North Carolina.
|
|
stevep
Fleet admiral
Posts: 23,380
Likes: 11,999
|
Post by stevep on Nov 27, 2018 21:27:41 GMT
The war begins with an invasion of North Carolina.
Do you mean that if Virginia hadn't joined the secession, for whatever reason, the other three states that joined after Lincoln's calling for volunteers wouldn't either so the south would seek to invade an isolated N Carolina, which was one of those three?
|
|
mcnutt
Chief petty officer
Posts: 162
Likes: 7
|
Post by mcnutt on Nov 28, 2018 19:19:54 GMT
I think the biggest difference is that Lee leads the Union Army.
|
|
lordroel
Administrator
Posts: 64,710
Likes: 45,793
|
Post by lordroel on Nov 28, 2018 19:23:06 GMT
I think the biggest difference is that Lee leads the Union Army. Only if he accepts the offer. |
|
spanishspy
Fleet admiral
Posts: 10,366
Likes: 1,586
|
Post by spanishspy on Dec 3, 2018 3:46:34 GMT
The Confederacy loses Tredgar Ironworks, which was a major part of their industrial strength.
I would reckon that the Union focuses on the Mississippi then on anything in North Carolina.
|
|
James G
Squadron vice admiral
Posts: 7,608
Likes: 8,799
|
Post by James G on Dec 3, 2018 9:35:29 GMT
The Confederacy loses Tredgar Ironworks, which was a major part of their industrial strength. I would reckon that the Union focuses on the Mississippi then on anything in North Carolina. Straight down the middle to cut the Confederacy in two? |
|
stevep
Fleet admiral
Posts: 23,380
Likes: 11,999
|
Post by stevep on Dec 3, 2018 9:38:02 GMT
The Confederacy loses Tredgar Ironworks, which was a major part of their industrial strength. I would reckon that the Union focuses on the Mississippi then on anything in North Carolina.
Good point, forgot that. Also they don't get to take over the Norfolk Naval Yard so they will be even weaker at sea. IIRC Virginia nearly doubled the industrial strength of the rebel states when it also seceded.
|
|
lordroel
Administrator
Posts: 64,710
Likes: 45,793
|
Post by lordroel on Dec 3, 2018 17:03:05 GMT
I was wondering, would the Virginia Army take on the Federals and the Confederates to preserve neutrality.
|
|
