genyodectes
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I'm just a Ceratosaur trying to make his way in Alternate History
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Post by genyodectes on Nov 16, 2018 0:36:08 GMT
In 1704, The War of the Spanish Succession was in full swing, with the Battle of Blenheim being key in the defeat of Louis XIV. What if the Battle was a defeat for the GA that saw France capture Vienna. Say the War is able to win at that moment in pure stalemate with the European Theatre being all but over and the Treaty is much as OTL's were, except for one condition: Charles XVI is to be placed into exile with his family from Austria and Elector Maximilian II Emmanuel becomes the Emperor and Archduke of Austria.
Would this scenario be plausible? If so, would the remaining Hapsburg flee to Prussia or somewhere else? What would be Maximilian's immediate goals? Louis XIV's?
If not plausible, would there be a way to make this scenario plausible?
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stevep
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Post by stevep on Nov 16, 2018 11:12:33 GMT
In 1704, The War of the Spanish Succession was in full swing, with the Battle of Blenheim being key in the defeat of Louis XIV. What if the Battle was a defeat for the GA that saw France capture Vienna. Say the War is able to win at that moment in pure stalemate with the European Theatre being all but over and the Treaty is much as OTL's were, except for one condition: Charles XVI is to be placed into exile with his family from Austria and Elector Maximilian II Emmanuel becomes the Emperor and Archduke of Austria. Would this scenario be plausible? If so, would the remaining Hapsburg flee to Prussia or somewhere else? What would be Maximilian's immediate goals? Louis XIV's? If not plausible, would there be a way to make this scenario plausible?
A big battle going the other way is always plausible, especially if say something delays Marlborough getting the Anglo-Dutch army there in time to support the empire. Not sure if this would enable the Franco-Bavarian army to advance and capture Vienna however. Possibly if the defeat for the Austrians was bad enough and the French were willing to allow Marlborough to threaten their rear and supply lines.
By Maximilian becoming Archduke of Austria what exactly do you mean? Just the Austrian part of the empire, or Austria and Bohemia - which at the time was very wealthy and important - or the entire Austrian Hapsburg empire which would include Hungary, much of which have only recently been liberated from the Turks? For Charles XVI to lose his entire empire would be a massive shift in the balance of power and might well be objected to by France as well as the other powers as it would make Maximilian a powerful rival to Louis XIV. Something less would still leave Charles with some territory from which with his allies he's likely to continue the war.
Whatever happened the maritime powers of Britain and the Netherlands, united under William III would almost certainly still be at war with Louis XIV. Both because the threat of him uniting France with the Spanish empire would be too much of a danger to them and because I suspect Louis would be looking for total victory over them as well. They would almost certainly be supported by a lot of the other German states and probably also ones further afield because such a Franco-Spanish empire would be seen to be too large. From that point it would depend on how things go. Could Marlborough and Prince Eugen, two military geniuses, manage to pull some success from the apparent disaster or would France obtain a possibly lasting domination of western and central Europe and its overseas possessions?
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genyodectes
Warrant Officer
I'm just a Ceratosaur trying to make his way in Alternate History
Posts: 226
Likes: 119
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Post by genyodectes on Nov 16, 2018 15:29:06 GMT
In 1704, The War of the Spanish Succession was in full swing, with the Battle of Blenheim being key in the defeat of Louis XIV. What if the Battle was a defeat for the GA that saw France capture Vienna. Say the War is able to win at that moment in pure stalemate with the European Theatre being all but over and the Treaty is much as OTL's were, except for one condition: Charles XVI is to be placed into exile with his family from Austria and Elector Maximilian II Emmanuel becomes the Emperor and Archduke of Austria. Would this scenario be plausible? If so, would the remaining Hapsburg flee to Prussia or somewhere else? What would be Maximilian's immediate goals? Louis XIV's? If not plausible, would there be a way to make this scenario plausible?
A big battle going the other way is always plausible, especially if say something delays Marlborough getting the Anglo-Dutch army there in time to support the empire. Not sure if this would enable the Franco-Bavarian army to advance and capture Vienna however. Possibly if the defeat for the Austrians was bad enough and the French were willing to allow Marlborough to threaten their rear and supply lines.
By Maximilian becoming Archduke of Austria what exactly do you mean? Just the Austrian part of the empire, or Austria and Bohemia - which at the time was very wealthy and important - or the entire Austrian Hapsburg empire which would include Hungary, much of which have only recently been liberated from the Turks? For Charles XVI to lose his entire empire would be a massive shift in the balance of power and might well be objected to by France as well as the other powers as it would make Maximilian a powerful rival to Louis XIV. Something less would still leave Charles with some territory from which with his allies he's likely to continue the war.
Whatever happened the maritime powers of Britain and the Netherlands, united under William III would almost certainly still be at war with Louis XIV. Both because the threat of him uniting France with the Spanish empire would be too much of a danger to them and because I suspect Louis would be looking for total victory over them as well. They would almost certainly be supported by a lot of the other German states and probably also ones further afield because such a Franco-Spanish empire would be seen to be too large. From that point it would depend on how things go. Could Marlborough and Prince Eugen, two military geniuses, manage to pull some success from the apparent disaster or would France obtain a possibly lasting domination of western and central Europe and its overseas possessions?
Maximillian becoming Archduke is him ruling over Austria proper and Bohemia while Hungary is liberated and made a French Puppet against any threat from Russia in the East, meaning the Austrian Empire is balkanized and Charles XVI is forced to flee into Exile into the another powerful German State, which would likely be Prussia. The War ends in a Status Quo Ante Bellum like it was in OTL with Felippe V still becoming King of Spain but no other major changes aside from the HRE and Central Europe. Britain decides to give more aid to Prussia afterwards so they can be a sufficient bulwark against the French Alliance. Would that be plausible? |
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stevep
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Post by stevep on Nov 16, 2018 19:32:24 GMT
A big battle going the other way is always plausible, especially if say something delays Marlborough getting the Anglo-Dutch army there in time to support the empire. Not sure if this would enable the Franco-Bavarian army to advance and capture Vienna however. Possibly if the defeat for the Austrians was bad enough and the French were willing to allow Marlborough to threaten their rear and supply lines.
By Maximilian becoming Archduke of Austria what exactly do you mean? Just the Austrian part of the empire, or Austria and Bohemia - which at the time was very wealthy and important - or the entire Austrian Hapsburg empire which would include Hungary, much of which have only recently been liberated from the Turks? For Charles XVI to lose his entire empire would be a massive shift in the balance of power and might well be objected to by France as well as the other powers as it would make Maximilian a powerful rival to Louis XIV. Something less would still leave Charles with some territory from which with his allies he's likely to continue the war.
Whatever happened the maritime powers of Britain and the Netherlands, united under William III would almost certainly still be at war with Louis XIV. Both because the threat of him uniting France with the Spanish empire would be too much of a danger to them and because I suspect Louis would be looking for total victory over them as well. They would almost certainly be supported by a lot of the other German states and probably also ones further afield because such a Franco-Spanish empire would be seen to be too large. From that point it would depend on how things go. Could Marlborough and Prince Eugen, two military geniuses, manage to pull some success from the apparent disaster or would France obtain a possibly lasting domination of western and central Europe and its overseas possessions?
Maximillian becoming Archduke is him ruling over Austria proper and Bohemia while Hungary is liberated and made a French Puppet against any threat from Russia in the East, meaning the Austrian Empire is balkanized and Charles XVI is forced to flee into Exile into the another powerful German State, which would likely be Prussia. The War ends in a Status Quo Ante Bellum like it was in OTL with Felippe V still becoming King of Spain but no other major changes aside from the HRE and Central Europe. Britain decides to give more aid to Prussia afterwards so they can be a sufficient bulwark against the French Alliance. Would that be plausible?
OK thanks for clarifying. I suspect the war wouldn't end at this point because Louis would probably want more while the rump of the alliance would be too fearful of the current imbalance of power. Plus what happens to the southern Netherlands [OTL Belgium] at this stage. If their still in French hands their too great a danger to both Britain and the Dutch.
Just to note that an independent Hungary wouldn't be a bulwark against Russia as that country was a lot weaker at the time and with a still large, if declining Poland in the way would have no real contact with Russia. However it would be very concerned about the Ottomans who ruled the bulk of the country until ~5 years before and are likely to make a bid to restore that control.
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