futurist
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Post by futurist on Aug 23, 2018 18:46:22 GMT
What is the largest post-WWII Soviet bloc that can be formed if France doesn't fall in 1940?
As for my own thoughts on this, I think that, if France doesn't fall in 1940 and a long war subsequently occurs--with enough time for the Soviet Union to enter the war on the Anglo-French side--then the Soviet Union can acquire Poland, Czechoslovakia, and eastern Germany as satellite states after it liberates them from Nazi rule. (The Baltic countries, Bessarabia, and Bukovina would obviously be outright annexed to the Soviet Union.) In addition to this, the Soviet Union can use Hungary's occupation of southern Slovekia and Subcarpathian Ruthenia as an excuse to declare war on Hungary--thus turning Hungary into a Soviet puppet state as well. However, I don't see an avenue for the Soviet Union to turn either Romania or Bulgaria into Soviet satellite states in this scenario.
Anyway, any thoughts on this?
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James G
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Post by James G on Aug 23, 2018 20:19:14 GMT
Interesting scenario here.
A UK-France-Russia alliance was what Germany, under Hitler or any else in 1940, feared the most. Germany would be in trouble.
If the Soviets and the Western Allies didn't fall out, post-war divisions could easily see something like this as was the case with WW1 and even at the end of WW2 with the percentages agreements.
Britain will certainly want influence at the bottom of the Balkans, Greece and Turkey, but would be unfazed by Soviet influence in Eastern Europe. France might not be as best pleased to see the eastern side of the continent goggled up like that.
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Post by lukedalton on Aug 30, 2018 21:49:36 GMT
THe baltic state and occupied Poland sure, maybe even the rest of Poland and slovackia if the Soviet are quick enough to invade when will be clear that the Germans are doomed, better remember that in this period the Red Army it's not in that great shape. Romania is a toss, Stalin was a cautious man and with the Anglo-French still on the game a so blatant expansion in the Balkans can be too risky, plus Italy will remain neutral with France still fighting and i doubt that will like Moscow poaching on her turf (without Germany diplomatic move pre annexation).
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steffen
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Post by steffen on Aug 31, 2018 13:50:52 GMT
Big problem with this scenario.
If france doesn´t fall - you need to explain why.
There is no "long-war-scenario", because if the germans are crushed (even if it is quite near asb to happen that way), they will have some officers "remove" Hitler, basically a putsch)
If russia invade poland (german occupied part) in 1940 (then? late 40?) the germans are doomed.. they cannot fight a two-front-war, they set their plan and it worked. if it doesn´t work that way (or some workaround - as you mentioned, france does not fall) then it is game over.
Nazi germany 1940 was ways weaker as imperial germany 1914. And the start of the support for the war was in 1940, after hitlers armies crushed the hated french in 6 weeks. Here you miss that, so the people and the officers just see hitler destroying germany.
Russia, if it joins is no allied partner of the Allies, he had invaded poland, Churchill hated them and i doubt the others in the british government had different feelings.
If the allies crush germany the germans fell into a kind of (short) civil war and basically give up. But they will not get parted in that way that the russians get one part. What ever happens, russia is not benefiting.
UK will force poland back into existence, esp. after the russians took the baltics out and invaded finnland.
You even could see an offer from the allies to the "new government of germany" to fight together against the russians... not from the french, but from the british.
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