stevep
Fleet admiral
Posts: 23,920
Likes: 12,442
|
Post by stevep on Sept 11, 2018 17:25:43 GMT
This thread hasn't changed for over a week now. Anyone else want to contribute? I can start; I've seen some argue that we uptimers are living in a Third/Fourth Industrial Revolution marked by automation, 3D printing, quantum computing, cyber-physical systems and the internet of things, just to name a few. Considering that they barely know TV at this point, what will the downtimers make of this assessment--especially the STEM professionals?
Some will be shocked, many will be confused and some will think their in paradise. Remembering reading some of the SF and about some of their conferences in this period and they were predicting a lot of this and while the details will surprise them and they will be disappointed about the 2018 west they will be told about - because they envisaged a far more liberal and equal future - they will look forward to learning about the future and planning how to bring their part of the world up to date ASAP.
|
|
Zyobot
Fleet admiral
Just a time-traveling robot stranded on Earth.
Posts: 17,296
Likes: 7,246
|
Post by Zyobot on Sept 12, 2018 20:41:00 GMT
This thread hasn't changed for over a week now. Anyone else want to contribute? I can start; I've seen some argue that we uptimers are living in a Third/Fourth Industrial Revolution marked by automation, 3D printing, quantum computing, cyber-physical systems and the internet of things, just to name a few. Considering that they barely know TV at this point, what will the downtimers make of this assessment--especially the STEM professionals?
Some will be shocked, many will be confused and some will think their in paradise. Remembering reading some of the SF and about some of their conferences in this period and they were predicting a lot of this and while the details will surprise them and they will be disappointed about the 2018 west they will be told about - because they envisaged a far more liberal and equal future - they will look forward to learning about the future and planning how to bring their part of the world up to date ASAP.
Once they get acquainted with the wonders (and horrors) of the internet, though, I bet their opinions will change; after all, it does contain Shrek is Love, Shrek is Life. One ought to wonder how 1950s authorities will regulate a global computer network where users can access/contribute nearly whatever they want 24/7.
|
|
stevep
Fleet admiral
Posts: 23,920
Likes: 12,442
|
Post by stevep on Sept 12, 2018 21:10:22 GMT
Some will be shocked, many will be confused and some will think their in paradise. Remembering reading some of the SF and about some of their conferences in this period and they were predicting a lot of this and while the details will surprise them and they will be disappointed about the 2018 west they will be told about - because they envisaged a far more liberal and equal future - they will look forward to learning about the future and planning how to bring their part of the world up to date ASAP.
Once they get acquainted with the wonders (and horrors) of the internet, though, I bet their opinions will change; after all, it does contain Shrek is Love, Shrek is Life. One ought to wonder how 1950s authorities will regulate a global computer network where users can access/contribute nearly whatever they want 24/7.
Well in the short term they will be able to because the 1950 world lacks the facilities to enable much of that capacity. However its going to be interesting once the capacities have been put in place.
|
|
Zyobot
Fleet admiral
Just a time-traveling robot stranded on Earth.
Posts: 17,296
Likes: 7,246
|
Post by Zyobot on Sept 12, 2018 23:21:00 GMT
Once they get acquainted with the wonders (and horrors) of the internet, though, I bet their opinions will change; after all, it does contain Shrek is Love, Shrek is Life. One ought to wonder how 1950s authorities will regulate a global computer network where users can access/contribute nearly whatever they want 24/7.
Well in the short term they will be able to because the 1950 world lacks the facilities to enable much of that capacity. However its going to be interesting once the capacities have been put in place.
True. I suppose I meant those downtimers who'd soon have the chance to see uptime technology in action--business moguls, government officials and military top brass chief amongst them. In the longer term, I envision 1950s STEM professionals and students flocking to the Asia-Pacific to tour/study/personally witness what the 21st Century has in store. Even the humblest iPhone, with its millions of times more computing power than NASA's computers in the '60s, will completely blow them out of the water.
|
|
stevep
Fleet admiral
Posts: 23,920
Likes: 12,442
|
Post by stevep on Sept 13, 2018 8:44:02 GMT
Well in the short term they will be able to because the 1950 world lacks the facilities to enable much of that capacity. However its going to be interesting once the capacities have been put in place.
True. I suppose I meant those downtimers who'd soon have the chance to see uptime technology in action--business moguls, government officials and military top brass chief amongst them. In the longer term, I envision 1950s STEM professionals and students flocking to the Asia-Pacific to tour/study/personally witness what the 21st Century has in store. Even the humblest iPhone, with its millions of times more computing power than NASA's computers in the '60s, will completely blow them out of the water.
I'm wondering whether there would be a new space race. The 2018 nations will want to get their own capacity to put satellites into space, if only for communications and for some GPS equivalent as I think most/all of those will be unavailable and the 1950 'great' powers will also seek such a capacity once they realise its importance to avoid being totally dependent on the former. [Although for quite a while they would be dependent on the 2018 people to supply satellites, launch capacity and also the ground technology to use this ability]. I can see the US and USSR at the very least being determined to achieve this ASAP.
|
|
Zyobot
Fleet admiral
Just a time-traveling robot stranded on Earth.
Posts: 17,296
Likes: 7,246
|
Post by Zyobot on Oct 5, 2018 12:42:20 GMT
True. I suppose I meant those downtimers who'd soon have the chance to see uptime technology in action--business moguls, government officials and military top brass chief amongst them. In the longer term, I envision 1950s STEM professionals and students flocking to the Asia-Pacific to tour/study/personally witness what the 21st Century has in store. Even the humblest iPhone, with its millions of times more computing power than NASA's computers in the '60s, will completely blow them out of the water.
I'm wondering whether there would be a new space race. The 2018 nations will want to get their own capacity to put satellites into space, if only for communications and for some GPS equivalent as I think most/all of those will be unavailable and the 1950 'great' powers will also seek such a capacity once they realise its importance to avoid being totally dependent on the former. [Although for quite a while they would be dependent on the 2018 people to supply satellites, launch capacity and also the ground technology to use this ability]. I can see the US and USSR at the very least being determined to achieve this ASAP.
I wonder if it's possible that they might send spies over to ascertain uptimer society. That seems like what two superpowers that have just been one-upped, but can't go to war over it, would do.
|
|
stevep
Fleet admiral
Posts: 23,920
Likes: 12,442
|
Post by stevep on Oct 5, 2018 19:13:59 GMT
I'm wondering whether there would be a new space race. The 2018 nations will want to get their own capacity to put satellites into space, if only for communications and for some GPS equivalent as I think most/all of those will be unavailable and the 1950 'great' powers will also seek such a capacity once they realise its importance to avoid being totally dependent on the former. [Although for quite a while they would be dependent on the 2018 people to supply satellites, launch capacity and also the ground technology to use this ability]. I can see the US and USSR at the very least being determined to achieve this ASAP.
I wonder if it's possible that they might send spies over to ascertain uptimer society. That seems like what two superpowers that have just been one-upped, but can't go to war over it, would do.
Their likely to try, or possibly some fringe groups doing something like that, but its going to be very difficult. For one things their going to stand out so much because of their ignorance and also since most of the 2018 nations are from east or south Asia someone from the west or Soviet sphere is likely to stand out like the proverbial sore thumb.
I think the best bets presuming they were brought alone would be for the 1950 nations to contact their 2018 embassies in the countries. Those people can not only tell them a lot about the people they need to talk to for diplomacy, what to say [and NOT] and what things would be important rather than pointless. They will understand a hell of a lot more about the technologies involved and will have access to information and samples of many of them in their embassies plus possibly be able to access other info from libraries, daily interactions in the countries their working in and possibly some purchases.
Its possible that some of the 1950 nations [and almost certainly some of their people] will seek to gain information/tools by bribery and corruption. However as well as being fairly easy to detect their also likely to be easy to fool by con-men as well as agents of the 2018 powers.
The two superpowers and every other major power from 1950 have definitely been one-upped, or possibly more like ten-upped and they will seek to rectify this but how quickly and with how much success I don't know.
|
|
Zyobot
Fleet admiral
Just a time-traveling robot stranded on Earth.
Posts: 17,296
Likes: 7,246
|
Post by Zyobot on Oct 5, 2018 20:14:01 GMT
I wonder if it's possible that they might send spies over to ascertain uptimer society. That seems like what two superpowers that have just been one-upped, but can't go to war over it, would do.
Their likely to try, or possibly some fringe groups doing something like that, but its going to be very difficult. For one things their going to stand out so much because of their ignorance and also since most of the 2018 nations are from east or south Asia someone from the west or Soviet sphere is likely to stand out like the proverbial sore thumb.
I think the best bets presuming they were brought alone would be for the 1950 nations to contact their 2018 embassies in the countries. Those people can not only tell them a lot about the people they need to talk to for diplomacy, what to say [and NOT] and what things would be important rather than pointless. They will understand a hell of a lot more about the technologies involved and will have access to information and samples of many of them in their embassies plus possibly be able to access other info from libraries, daily interactions in the countries their working in and possibly some purchases.
Its possible that some of the 1950 nations [and almost certainly some of their people] will seek to gain information/tools by bribery and corruption. However as well as being fairly easy to detect their also likely to be easy to fool by con-men as well as agents of the 2018 powers.
The two superpowers and every other major power from 1950 have definitely been one-upped, or possibly more like ten-upped and they will seek to rectify this but how quickly and with how much success I don't know.
Good points, thank you for bringing them up. I wonder, though, if the 2018 embassies won't be good sources for downtime authorities to pry from. For one, the Asia-Pacific governments would likely see this coming and act accordingly. Even without that, I bet the embassies will be hesitant to inform their home countries about uptime secrets, considering the completely different society that exists in the 1950s. I have enough trouble imagining that uptime Westerners, at any and every level, could get along with their '50s counterparts, let alone disclose anything significant to them. How would 21st Century Russians or Chinese fare with their fundamentally contrastive nations from 60+ years ago? Similar logic applies to those vast numbers of less-powerful people who are overseas when the ISOT occurs. Would uptimer US military personnel be willing to return to, let alone take orders from, 1950s Washington, D.C. for example? ...Ehhhhh debatable, and no doubt filled with contention and teeth-clenched teamwork if yes.
|
|
stevep
Fleet admiral
Posts: 23,920
Likes: 12,442
|
Post by stevep on Oct 5, 2018 22:18:07 GMT
Their likely to try, or possibly some fringe groups doing something like that, but its going to be very difficult. For one things their going to stand out so much because of their ignorance and also since most of the 2018 nations are from east or south Asia someone from the west or Soviet sphere is likely to stand out like the proverbial sore thumb.
I think the best bets presuming they were brought alone would be for the 1950 nations to contact their 2018 embassies in the countries. Those people can not only tell them a lot about the people they need to talk to for diplomacy, what to say [and NOT] and what things would be important rather than pointless. They will understand a hell of a lot more about the technologies involved and will have access to information and samples of many of them in their embassies plus possibly be able to access other info from libraries, daily interactions in the countries their working in and possibly some purchases.
Its possible that some of the 1950 nations [and almost certainly some of their people] will seek to gain information/tools by bribery and corruption. However as well as being fairly easy to detect their also likely to be easy to fool by con-men as well as agents of the 2018 powers.
The two superpowers and every other major power from 1950 have definitely been one-upped, or possibly more like ten-upped and they will seek to rectify this but how quickly and with how much success I don't know.
Good points, thank you for bringing them up. I wonder, though, if the 2018 embassies won't be good sources for downtime authorities to pry from. For one, the Asia-Pacific governments would likely see this coming and act accordingly. Even without that, I bet the embassies will be hesitant to inform their home countries about uptime secrets, considering the completely different society that exists in the 1950s. I have enough trouble imagining that uptime Westerners, at any and every level, could get along with their '50s counterparts, let alone disclose anything significant to them. How would 21st Century Russians or Chinese fare with their fundamentally contrastive nations from 60+ years ago? Similar logic applies to those vast numbers of less-powerful people who are overseas when the ISOT occurs. Would uptimer US military personnel be willing to return to, let alone take orders from, 1950s Washington, D.C. for example? ...Ehhhhh debatable, and no doubt filled with contention and teeth-clenched teamwork if yes.
I'm doubtful about that, for the western embassies at least. They will present unpleasant ideas, such as get rid of the colonies ASAP, and on equal rights, especially on sexual, racial and religious grounds but they will still want their home countries to do well and to develop. Will seek to avoid conflict with the 2018 nations, in part because such clashes are likely to be disasters for the 1950 ones. After all their men trained and sent aboard to represent their countries and in most western cases at least there's a clear continuity between their 1950 and 2018 versions. As well as having their parents and grandparents present again and in a position to help them.
Similarly for Russia while there's many differences between 1950 SU under Stalin and 2018 Russia under Putin a lot of the sort of hard line nationalist stance that Putin has been pushing will make wanted to help a Soviet Russia catch up likely. After all a lot of the senior ones will have, like Putin himself grew up in the Soviet system and would very likely see their aim as to maintain the 'Russian/Soviet' empire. The main damage they might do is set off another round of purges as Stalin learns what happened after his death and Khrushchev and other OTL reformers, along with possibly a lot of other people could suffer lead poisoning or other problems. Some 2018 Russians may decide their better off aiding a 2018 country and keeping the modern lifestyle their been used to, or trying to sell information to any down-timers who are willing to pay to help maintain their income but I doubt many will want to weaken the 1950 SU, at least not until their familiar with the reality of it, by which time its probably too late for most of them.
Of course this doesn't apply anything as much to 2018 diplomats who represent what are now Soviet satellites in eastern Europe as most of them probably won't want to 'return' home. Possibly also a number of modern Chinese ones who may be worried about going back to 1950 China with Mao in control.
For those diplomats from 2018 embassies who's countries were in the ME, Latin America or Africa a lot would depend on the circumstances.
|
|
Zyobot
Fleet admiral
Just a time-traveling robot stranded on Earth.
Posts: 17,296
Likes: 7,246
|
Post by Zyobot on Oct 5, 2018 22:47:54 GMT
Off-topic, but since the Korean War's going on (though not for long), I wonder how the downtimers might react to, say, Rucka Rucka Ali's Korea-oriented parodies (the rules likely prevent me from posting them, though). I'd pay to see their reactions.
|
|
stevep
Fleet admiral
Posts: 23,920
Likes: 12,442
|
Post by stevep on Oct 6, 2018 10:44:51 GMT
Off-topic, but since the Korean War's going on (though not for long), I wonder how the downtimers might react to, say, Rucka Rucka Ali's Korea-oriented parodies (the rules likely prevent me from posting them, though). I'd pay to see their reactions.
The war starts the following day presuming the original Kim doesn't notice the difference and have an attack of sanity, which is probably unlikely. However as you say the 1st stage is unlikely to last long as the 2018 southern forces, especially if accompanied by the up-time US forces based there are going to give the numerous but elderly northern forces a nasty surprise. You might just still get a China intervention to rescue the north but it would have to be massive to have any effect and even then could well fail. Which could have nasty implications for the still young communist state in China, especially if S Korea gets support from other up-timers.
|
|
mullauna
Banned
Banned
Posts: 376
Likes: 40
|
Post by mullauna on Oct 12, 2018 13:02:42 GMT
What happens to Hong Kong?
|
|
lordroel
Administrator
Posts: 65,675
Likes: 46,955
|
Post by lordroel on Oct 12, 2018 14:16:41 GMT
What happens to Hong Kong? It is most likely the Hong Kong of 1950.
|
|
Zyobot
Fleet admiral
Just a time-traveling robot stranded on Earth.
Posts: 17,296
Likes: 7,246
|
Post by Zyobot on Oct 12, 2018 14:25:12 GMT
What happens to Hong Kong? It is most likely the Hong Kong of 1950. That's right. It's not a standalone nation and is, furthermore, subordinate to a strongly authoritarian, nominally communist (though economically capitalist) China back in 2018. I also didn't want the people of Hong Kong to be victimized by the '50s PRC, which is yet another reason why they weren't ISOTed back.
|
|
mullauna
Banned
Banned
Posts: 376
Likes: 40
|
Post by mullauna on Oct 12, 2018 15:41:38 GMT
1950 Hong Kong is a British Crown Colony?
|
|