futurist
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Post by futurist on Aug 11, 2018 21:03:13 GMT
Had Germany won WWI (by keeping the US neutral and making concessions in the West so that it could keep its territorial gains in the East), and had Germany been able to hold on to Latvia and Estonia for the next 100 years, what would these territories have looked like right now?
Would they have been a backwater just like East Prussia was? Or would they have become much more prosperous than East Prussia?
Also, had Germany tried to actively recruit massive numbers of Jews from Mitteleuropa to settle in Latvia and Estonia between 1918 and 2018 (in the event of a German WWI victory), would a lot of Jews have taken Germany up on this offer? For the record, this would have included getting a nice piece of land in Latvia or Estonia if you would have moved there.
Any thoughts on all of this?
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stevep
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Post by stevep on Aug 11, 2018 22:11:52 GMT
Had Germany won WWI (by keeping the US neutral and making concessions in the West so that it could keep its territorial gains in the East), and had Germany been able to hold on to Latvia and Estonia for the next 100 years, what would these territories have looked like right now? Would they have been a backwater just like East Prussia was? Or would they have become much more prosperous than East Prussia? Also, had Germany tried to actively recruit massive numbers of Jews from Mitteleuropa to settle in Latvia and Estonia between 1918 and 2018 (in the event of a German WWI victory), would a lot of Jews have taken Germany up on this offer? For the record, this would have included getting a nice piece of land in Latvia or Estonia if you would have moved there. Any thoughts on all of this?
Depends on a lot of variables, chiefly how does Germany develop and in what way its dominance of Europe is challenged. Might be pretty similar to how it was under the Soviets, with the population increasingly Germanised and their national identity largely suppressed. Or if Germany becomes more democratic and tolerant it might allow independence or at least a large degree of self-government to such colonies.
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kyng
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Post by kyng on Aug 11, 2018 23:11:11 GMT
Depends largely on how Germany develops as a nation during that period.
If it remains autocratic, then I expect things will go much the same way as they did in the USSR. Germans would move in, but the native populace would never truly assimilate: they'd retain a strong sense of national identity in order to resist 'outside' German pressure. They'd probably declare independence as soon as they were given the chance.
If Germany becomes democratic, they might not declare independence right away, especially if the USSR/Russia is posing a major threat to them. However, they'd still speak their own languages and retain a regional culture, and if they cease to benefit from being part of Germany then they'll probably call for an independence referendum (and vote in favour of it).
My guess is: they become a backwater which only stays part of Germany in order to avoid being part of Russia.
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spanishspy
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Post by spanishspy on Aug 18, 2018 1:37:57 GMT
I can see development pouring into northern Estonia to support military facilities to prevent St. Petersburg's access to the sea should the need arise.
I don't see the native languages dying out. German would become an important second language, no doubt.
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futurist
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Post by futurist on Aug 23, 2018 18:50:42 GMT
Had Germany won WWI (by keeping the US neutral and making concessions in the West so that it could keep its territorial gains in the East), and had Germany been able to hold on to Latvia and Estonia for the next 100 years, what would these territories have looked like right now? Would they have been a backwater just like East Prussia was? Or would they have become much more prosperous than East Prussia? Also, had Germany tried to actively recruit massive numbers of Jews from Mitteleuropa to settle in Latvia and Estonia between 1918 and 2018 (in the event of a German WWI victory), would a lot of Jews have taken Germany up on this offer? For the record, this would have included getting a nice piece of land in Latvia or Estonia if you would have moved there. Any thoughts on all of this?
Depends on a lot of variables, chiefly how does Germany develop and in what way its dominance of Europe is challenged. Might be pretty similar to how it was under the Soviets, with the population increasingly Germanised and their national identity largely suppressed. Or if Germany becomes more democratic and tolerant it might allow independence or at least a large degree of self-government to such colonies.
This seems about right. Of course, I wonder if Germany will allow unlimited immigration between Latvia/Estonia and Germany. Also, I wonder how many Jews would settle in Latvia and Estonia if they had the opportunity to do so. |
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futurist
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Post by futurist on Aug 23, 2018 18:52:11 GMT
Depends largely on how Germany develops as a nation during that period. If it remains autocratic, then I expect things will go much the same way as they did in the USSR. Germans would move in, but the native populace would never truly assimilate: they'd retain a strong sense of national identity in order to resist 'outside' German pressure. They'd probably declare independence as soon as they were given the chance. If Germany becomes democratic, they might not declare independence right away, especially if the USSR/Russia is posing a major threat to them. However, they'd still speak their own languages and retain a regional culture, and if they cease to benefit from being part of Germany then they'll probably call for an independence referendum (and vote in favour of it). My guess is: they become a backwater which only stays part of Germany in order to avoid being part of Russia. You don't think that Germany is going to try spending a lot of money to further develop Latvia and Estonia? After all, even under the Soviets, there was a large push to further industrialize these two SSRs. |
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futurist
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Post by futurist on Aug 23, 2018 18:58:23 GMT
I can see development pouring into northern Estonia to support military facilities to prevent St. Petersburg's access to the sea should the need arise. I don't see the native languages dying out. German would become an important second language, no doubt. All of this certainly makes sense. Also, one would think that there would be development in Latvia as well in order to reduce the risk of Russia cutting off Latvia and Estonia through a pincer strike in a future war. |
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spanishspy
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Post by spanishspy on Aug 25, 2018 1:31:24 GMT
I can see development pouring into northern Estonia to support military facilities to prevent St. Petersburg's access to the sea should the need arise. I don't see the native languages dying out. German would become an important second language, no doubt. All of this certainly makes sense. Also, one would think that there would be development in Latvia as well in order to reduce the risk of Russia cutting off Latvia and Estonia through a pincer strike in a future war. This makes sense. So long as there is a multipolar European system Germany will keep these borderlands developed and defended, if only to defend Germany proper. |
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