lordroel
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Post by lordroel on Aug 3, 2018 15:30:45 GMT
So how would you advice a Prime Minster of the United Kingdom, 50 years old, a former army officer who saw combat during the Great War where he was awarded the Victoria Cross, head of the British National Party who sins 1929 has grown in seats winning in 1935 enough seats to form a majority and has been preparing the United Kingdom for a war against Germany for the upcoming Race invasion of 1942.
Here is some back story, in 1939 the United Kingdom declared war against Germany, seeing that France in your the United Kingdom had a large enough army they decided only to support them with a large RAF presence, which was resented somewhat by the French, this allowed the United Kingdom to prevent the Dunkirk evacuation of OTL, the Royal Navy which sins 1936 has been expanded and the RAF which also saw large expansion kept the Germans at bay during the Little Battle of Britain of 1940.
In 1941 when Japan began their conquest of Asia, a much stronger Royal Navy was there to engage them, by 1942 when the Race invades Earth, the United Kingdom is in a much stronger position than OTL, so how do we keep the United Kingdom a great power.
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stevep
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Post by stevep on Aug 3, 2018 17:16:11 GMT
So how would you advice a Prime Minster of the United Kingdom, 50 years old, a former army officer who saw combat during the Great War where he was awarded the Victoria Cross, head of the British National Party who sins 1929 has grown in seats winning in 1935 enough seats to form a majority and has been preparing the United Kingdom for a war against Germany for the upcoming Race invasion of 1942. Here is some back story, in 1939 the United Kingdom declared war against Germany, seeing that France in your the United Kingdom had a large enough army they decided only to support them with a large RAF presence, which was resented somewhat by the French, this allowed the United Kingdom to prevent the Dunkirk evacuation of OTL, the Royal Navy which sins 1936 has been expanded and the RAF which also saw large expansion kept the Germans at bay during the Little Battle of Britain of 1940. In 1941 when Japan began their conquest of Asia, a much stronger Royal Navy was there to engage them, by 1942 when the Race invades Earth, the United Kingdom is in a much stronger position than OTL, so how do we keep the United Kingdom a great power.
Too long since I read the stories so may have details wrong. Should be able to hold Britain itself, although the fighting for Britain in the book was bloody and costly for both sides. However to keep it a major power you really need to maintain some proportion of the empire and the OTL Race conquests took just about all the empire other than those bits already occupied by Japan. Not sure if Britain could hold Malaya and neighbouring regions as somehow the Japanese did OTL. Or even rescue Australia or New Zealand. Unless we can moblise India more efficiently and help them fight the Race invasion. Both in itself and to act as a massive drain on limited Race manpower, hence reducing the pressure elsewhere.
In part it also depends on the nature of this National Party government. Plus I presume that you have no foresight of the forthcoming Race attack until it actually occurs? Not sure if a more right wing party would be the best choice as its less likely to consider non-military matters and also be more reluctant to give more freedom to India and possibly other areas. It might even be less willing to moblise support for Britain in the empire than OTL, which would be bad.
If the Race makes anything like its OTL conquests then Britain can't stay a great power as too much is lost. However if Britain can give enough support to maintain a friendly India, pumping in men and equipment as well as supporting self-government with a quick move towards independence then we might be able to changes things somewhat. Also possibly getting in early on the joint nuclear project might be enough to secure freedom for say New Zealand and eastern Australia - where the bulk of the human population is - since the Race would be more interested in the arid interior.
There might be bonuses before the Race arrives, i.e. a stronger military and the lack of an army presence in France might mean that Britain can successfully defeat the Germans in Norway, although this is unlikely, possibly occupy Iceland permanently, which would give some useful resources. Also Britain might defeat the Italians in Libya earlier, which would free up resources for the battle against the Race but its unlikely we can hold N Africa.
The only real way for Britain to remain a great power however is a longer war, or one where the Race is largely if not totally defeated, but Britain avoids too much damage. In that case Britain might keep/regain important resource centres or at least have influence in areas such as India, Malaya and parts of Africa say as a protector against the Race.
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lordroel
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Post by lordroel on Aug 3, 2018 18:28:41 GMT
So how would you advice a Prime Minster of the United Kingdom, 50 years old, a former army officer who saw combat during the Great War where he was awarded the Victoria Cross, head of the British National Party who sins 1929 has grown in seats winning in 1935 enough seats to form a majority and has been preparing the United Kingdom for a war against Germany for the upcoming Race invasion of 1942. Here is some back story, in 1939 the United Kingdom declared war against Germany, seeing that France in your the United Kingdom had a large enough army they decided only to support them with a large RAF presence, which was resented somewhat by the French, this allowed the United Kingdom to prevent the Dunkirk evacuation of OTL, the Royal Navy which sins 1936 has been expanded and the RAF which also saw large expansion kept the Germans at bay during the Little Battle of Britain of 1940. In 1941 when Japan began their conquest of Asia, a much stronger Royal Navy was there to engage them, by 1942 when the Race invades Earth, the United Kingdom is in a much stronger position than OTL, so how do we keep the United Kingdom a great power. Too long since I read the stories so may have details wrong. Should be able to hold Britain itself, although the fighting for Britain in the book was bloody and costly for both sides. However to keep it a major power you really need to maintain some proportion of the empire and the OTL Race conquests took just about all the empire other than those bits already occupied by Japan. Not sure if Britain could hold Malaya and neighbouring regions as somehow the Japanese did OTL. Or even rescue Australia or New Zealand. Unless we can moblise India more efficiently and help them fight the Race invasion. Both in itself and to act as a massive drain on limited Race manpower, hence reducing the pressure elsewhere. In part it also depends on the nature of this National Party government. Plus I presume that you have no foresight of the forthcoming Race attack until it actually occurs? Not sure if a more right wing party would be the best choice as its less likely to consider non-military matters and also be more reluctant to give more freedom to India and possibly other areas. It might even be less willing to moblise support for Britain in the empire than OTL, which would be bad. If the Race makes anything like its OTL conquests then Britain can't stay a great power as too much is lost. However if Britain can give enough support to maintain a friendly India, pumping in men and equipment as well as supporting self-government with a quick move towards independence then we might be able to changes things somewhat. Also possibly getting in early on the joint nuclear project might be enough to secure freedom for say New Zealand and eastern Australia - where the bulk of the human population is - since the Race would be more interested in the arid interior. There might be bonuses before the Race arrives, i.e. a stronger military and the lack of an army presence in France might mean that Britain can successfully defeat the Germans in Norway, although this is unlikely, possibly occupy Iceland permanently, which would give some useful resources. Also Britain might defeat the Italians in Libya earlier, which would free up resources for the battle against the Race but its unlikely we can hold N Africa. The only real way for Britain to remain a great power however is a longer war, or one where the Race is largely if not totally defeated, but Britain avoids too much damage. In that case Britain might keep/regain important resource centres or at least have influence in areas such as India, Malaya and parts of Africa say as a protector against the Race.
Have some idea about some countries and what happen to them, will add more if people want it. - Norway: the Norway Campaign of 1940 to 1941 was mostly a British affair, the French due being somewhat upset that the British refuse to send a BEF to the French mainland refused to deploy French units to Norway, thus the British where forced to go alone in the aid to Norway, the Battle for Norway was won by the British, but barley, in 1941 a British Army of Norway (BAN) was created that alongside the British equipped and trained Norwegian Army stood guard to prevent any second attempt by the Germans to get Norway, had the Race not invaded in 1942 a Free Norway would have major effects on Germany and their steel production, but a British-German agreement in 1942 (mostly to keep the Germans in the fight) allowed the Germans to use Norwegian transportation lines to get iron ore from Sweden. In 1944 during the Peace of Cairo the Kingdom of Norway was recognized as a independent country, firmly in the British bloc. - Iceland and the Faroe Islands: in April 10th 1940 the Faroe Islands where occupied by troops of the United Kingdom, a month latter on May 10th 1940 the island of Iceland was also occupied by the British, the British began constructing airfields and by 1941 more than 30,000 British-Canadian troops where on the islands, the United States on the entry of war against Germany and Japan also began using the British airfields but when the Race invaded in 1942 they pulled back most of their forces due the Race invasion of the United States leaving both Iceland and the Faroe Islands under British control.In 1944 during the Peace of Cairo both Iceland and the Faroe Islands became British protectorates. - Malta: Malta suffering first German and Italian air strikes and later from 1942 Race airstrikes remains firmly in British hands. In 1944 during the Peace of Cairo the is land of Malta was recognized to be under British control. - Gibraltar: despite heroic defense of the defenders of the Rock of Gibraltar, Race air stikes using bunker buster mange to capture the British colony, in 1944 during the Peace of Cairo the United Kingdom was forced to renounce it claim on it. - Crete: the island of Crete became a major British and Free Greece bastion after the fall of Greece during in the late 1940 to early 1941 period, the Germans did try to launch a airborne attempt to invade the island in May 1941 but the British mange due to large British armed force presence and RAF presence to win the Battle of Crete, the island became the home of the Free Greece government and in 1944 during the Peace of Cairo it was placed under British protection. - Cyprus: the island of Cyprus remains a colony, this was also confirmed in the Peace of Cairo of 1944. |
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stevep
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Post by stevep on Aug 3, 2018 22:16:56 GMT
Too long since I read the stories so may have details wrong. Should be able to hold Britain itself, although the fighting for Britain in the book was bloody and costly for both sides. However to keep it a major power you really need to maintain some proportion of the empire and the OTL Race conquests took just about all the empire other than those bits already occupied by Japan. Not sure if Britain could hold Malaya and neighbouring regions as somehow the Japanese did OTL. Or even rescue Australia or New Zealand. Unless we can moblise India more efficiently and help them fight the Race invasion. Both in itself and to act as a massive drain on limited Race manpower, hence reducing the pressure elsewhere. In part it also depends on the nature of this National Party government. Plus I presume that you have no foresight of the forthcoming Race attack until it actually occurs? Not sure if a more right wing party would be the best choice as its less likely to consider non-military matters and also be more reluctant to give more freedom to India and possibly other areas. It might even be less willing to moblise support for Britain in the empire than OTL, which would be bad. If the Race makes anything like its OTL conquests then Britain can't stay a great power as too much is lost. However if Britain can give enough support to maintain a friendly India, pumping in men and equipment as well as supporting self-government with a quick move towards independence then we might be able to changes things somewhat. Also possibly getting in early on the joint nuclear project might be enough to secure freedom for say New Zealand and eastern Australia - where the bulk of the human population is - since the Race would be more interested in the arid interior. There might be bonuses before the Race arrives, i.e. a stronger military and the lack of an army presence in France might mean that Britain can successfully defeat the Germans in Norway, although this is unlikely, possibly occupy Iceland permanently, which would give some useful resources. Also Britain might defeat the Italians in Libya earlier, which would free up resources for the battle against the Race but its unlikely we can hold N Africa. The only real way for Britain to remain a great power however is a longer war, or one where the Race is largely if not totally defeated, but Britain avoids too much damage. In that case Britain might keep/regain important resource centres or at least have influence in areas such as India, Malaya and parts of Africa say as a protector against the Race.
Have some idea about some countries and what happen to them, will add more if people want it. - Norway: the Norway Campaign of 1940 to 1941 was mostly a British affair, the French due being somewhat upset that the British refuse to send a BEF to the French mainland refused to deploy French units to Norway, thus the British where forced to go alone in the aid to Norway, the Battle for Norway was won by the British, but barley, in 1941 a British Army of Norway (BAN) was created that alongside the British equipped and trained Norwegian Army stood guard to prevent any second attempt by the Germans to get Norway, had the Race not invaded in 1942 a Free Norway would have major effects on Germany and their steel production, but a British-German agreement in 1942 (mostly to keep the Germans in the fight) allowed the Germans to use Norwegian transportation lines to get iron ore from Sweden. In 1944 during the Peace of Cairo the Kingdom of Norway was recognized as a independent country, firmly in the British bloc. - Iceland and the Faroe Islands: in April 10th 1940 the Faroe Islands where occupied by troops of the United Kingdom, a month latter on May 10th 1940 the island of Iceland was also occupied by the British, the British began constructing airfields and by 1941 more than 30,000 British-Canadian troops where on the islands, the United States on the entry of war against Germany and Japan also began using the British airfields but when the Race invaded in 1942 they pulled back most of their forces due the Race invasion of the United States leaving both Iceland and the Faroe Islands under British control.In 1944 during the Peace of Cairo both Iceland and the Faroe Islands became British protectorates. - Malta: Malta suffering first German and Italian air strikes and later from 1942 Race airstrikes remains firmly in British hands. In 1944 during the Peace of Cairo the is land of Malta was recognized to be under British control. - Gibraltar: despite heroic defense of the defenders of the Rock of Gibraltar, Race air stikes using bunker buster mange to capture the British colony, in 1944 during the Peace of Cairo the United Kingdom was forced to renounce it claim on it. - Crete: the island of Crete became a major British and Free Greece bastion after the fall of Greece during in the late 1940 to early 1941 period, the Germans did try to launch a airborne attempt to invade the island in May 1941 but the British mange due to large British armed force presence and RAF presence to win the Battle of Crete, the island became the home of the Free Greece government and in 1944 during the Peace of Cairo it was placed under British protection. - Cyprus: the island of Cyprus remains a colony, this was also confirmed in the Peace of Cairo of 1944.
Possible but I think Britain needs to be one of the nuclear powers as that seems to have been the key to which major states regained territory, as the US, Soviets and Germans did. That needs some butterflies so their included in the sharing of nuclear materials and knowledge gained from the Race. This would enable Britain to secure those regions you mention and hopefully also others. If it keeps Malaya and preferable some other areas from both Japanese and then Race attacks that would be a useful resource base and also a strategic location. Add in as I say liberating New Zealand and the eastern region of Australia and some other oceanic locations and you might have the basis for a combination of locations in a federation, possibly also with some protectorates, that could be the basis of a great power. Most of the rest of the empire I suspect would be gone, although it might be possible that India proves too big a meal for them to absorb, Possibly also some parts of Africa if fairly wet as the Race really seemed to prefer dry-desert areas.
Those Med possessions on their own are probably more of a liability than a strength as in the event of a future conflict they would be very difficult to defend from either Nazi German or the Race and provide few resources themselves.
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lordroel
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Post by lordroel on Aug 4, 2018 10:37:47 GMT
Have some idea about some countries and what happen to them, will add more if people want it. - Norway: the Norway Campaign of 1940 to 1941 was mostly a British affair, the French due being somewhat upset that the British refuse to send a BEF to the French mainland refused to deploy French units to Norway, thus the British where forced to go alone in the aid to Norway, the Battle for Norway was won by the British, but barley, in 1941 a British Army of Norway (BAN) was created that alongside the British equipped and trained Norwegian Army stood guard to prevent any second attempt by the Germans to get Norway, had the Race not invaded in 1942 a Free Norway would have major effects on Germany and their steel production, but a British-German agreement in 1942 (mostly to keep the Germans in the fight) allowed the Germans to use Norwegian transportation lines to get iron ore from Sweden. In 1944 during the Peace of Cairo the Kingdom of Norway was recognized as a independent country, firmly in the British bloc. - Iceland and the Faroe Islands: in April 10th 1940 the Faroe Islands where occupied by troops of the United Kingdom, a month latter on May 10th 1940 the island of Iceland was also occupied by the British, the British began constructing airfields and by 1941 more than 30,000 British-Canadian troops where on the islands, the United States on the entry of war against Germany and Japan also began using the British airfields but when the Race invaded in 1942 they pulled back most of their forces due the Race invasion of the United States leaving both Iceland and the Faroe Islands under British control.In 1944 during the Peace of Cairo both Iceland and the Faroe Islands became British protectorates. - Malta: Malta suffering first German and Italian air strikes and later from 1942 Race airstrikes remains firmly in British hands. In 1944 during the Peace of Cairo the is land of Malta was recognized to be under British control. - Gibraltar: despite heroic defense of the defenders of the Rock of Gibraltar, Race air stikes using bunker buster mange to capture the British colony, in 1944 during the Peace of Cairo the United Kingdom was forced to renounce it claim on it. - Crete: the island of Crete became a major British and Free Greece bastion after the fall of Greece during in the late 1940 to early 1941 period, the Germans did try to launch a airborne attempt to invade the island in May 1941 but the British mange due to large British armed force presence and RAF presence to win the Battle of Crete, the island became the home of the Free Greece government and in 1944 during the Peace of Cairo it was placed under British protection. - Cyprus: the island of Cyprus remains a colony, this was also confirmed in the Peace of Cairo of 1944. Possible but I think Britain needs to be one of the nuclear powers as that seems to have been the key to which major states regained territory, as the US, Soviets and Germans did. That needs some butterflies so their included in the sharing of nuclear materials and knowledge gained from the Race. This would enable Britain to secure those regions you mention and hopefully also others. If it keeps Malaya and preferable some other areas from both Japanese and then Race attacks that would be a useful resource base and also a strategic location. Add in as I say liberating New Zealand and the eastern region of Australia and some other oceanic locations and you might have the basis for a combination of locations in a federation, possibly also with some protectorates, that could be the basis of a great power. Most of the rest of the empire I suspect would be gone, although it might be possible that India proves too big a meal for them to absorb, Possibly also some parts of Africa if fairly wet as the Race really seemed to prefer dry-desert areas.
Those Med possessions on their own are probably more of a liability than a strength as in the event of a future conflict they would be very difficult to defend from either Nazi German or the Race and provide few resources themselves.
Would holding Norway not help, if the United Kingdom together with Norway could produce Heavy waters, they might build a small A-bomb before 1944 when the Earth-Race ended. |
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stevep
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Post by stevep on Aug 4, 2018 19:09:58 GMT
Possible but I think Britain needs to be one of the nuclear powers as that seems to have been the key to which major states regained territory, as the US, Soviets and Germans did. That needs some butterflies so their included in the sharing of nuclear materials and knowledge gained from the Race. This would enable Britain to secure those regions you mention and hopefully also others. If it keeps Malaya and preferable some other areas from both Japanese and then Race attacks that would be a useful resource base and also a strategic location. Add in as I say liberating New Zealand and the eastern region of Australia and some other oceanic locations and you might have the basis for a combination of locations in a federation, possibly also with some protectorates, that could be the basis of a great power. Most of the rest of the empire I suspect would be gone, although it might be possible that India proves too big a meal for them to absorb, Possibly also some parts of Africa if fairly wet as the Race really seemed to prefer dry-desert areas.
Those Med possessions on their own are probably more of a liability than a strength as in the event of a future conflict they would be very difficult to defend from either Nazi German or the Race and provide few resources themselves.
Would holding Norway not help, if the United Kingdom together with Norway could produce Heavy waters, they might build a small A-bomb before 1944 when the Earth-Race ended. It would help but to get a bomb by 44, especially with fighting the Race, Britain would need to be involved in the joint operation that got material and information from the Race - IIRC it was after a Race ship was destroyed in the Ukraine by a German heavy siege gun. Think that the Soviets and Nazis split the material and info between them but, how I forgot the details, the US got a lesser share. If say this came via Britain and a joint Anglo-American project was started, which might enable it to be completed a bit faster then Britain could conceivably have a nuclear weapon in time. I don't see Britain having the resources to research and develop a weapon in time, even with say Canadian support and probably basing of the project.
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Post by lordroel on Aug 6, 2018 3:46:49 GMT
Would holding Norway not help, if the United Kingdom together with Norway could produce Heavy waters, they might build a small A-bomb before 1944 when the Earth-Race ended. It would help but to get a bomb by 44, especially with fighting the Race, Britain would need to be involved in the joint operation that got material and information from the Race - IIRC it was after a Race ship was destroyed in the Ukraine by a German heavy siege gun. Think that the Soviets and Nazis split the material and info between them but, how I forgot the details, the US got a lesser share. If say this came via Britain and a joint Anglo-American project was started, which might enable it to be completed a bit faster then Britain could conceivably have a nuclear weapon in time. I don't see Britain having the resources to research and develop a weapon in time, even with say Canadian support and probably basing of the project.
But the British could have the bomb before 1950 if they control Norway, this could mean that the British who during the Peace of Cairo of 1944 where only given partial diplomatic recognition (only the three countries of the Soviet Union, Germany and the United States who had developed nuclear weapons and thus given full diplomatic recognition) can be upgraded by the Race to full diplomatic recognition and thus become on of the Big Four countries on Earth, it will also help the United kingdom from falling under German influence later on. |
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stevep
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Post by stevep on Aug 6, 2018 8:06:41 GMT
It would help but to get a bomb by 44, especially with fighting the Race, Britain would need to be involved in the joint operation that got material and information from the Race - IIRC it was after a Race ship was destroyed in the Ukraine by a German heavy siege gun. Think that the Soviets and Nazis split the material and info between them but, how I forgot the details, the US got a lesser share. If say this came via Britain and a joint Anglo-American project was started, which might enable it to be completed a bit faster then Britain could conceivably have a nuclear weapon in time. I don't see Britain having the resources to research and develop a weapon in time, even with say Canadian support and probably basing of the project.
But the British could have the bomb before 1950 if they control Norway, this could mean that the British who during the Peace of Cairo of 1944 where only given partial diplomatic recognition (only the three countries of the Soviet Union, Germany and the United States who had developed nuclear weapons and thus given full diplomatic recognition) can be upgraded by the Race to full diplomatic recognition and thus become on of the Big Four countries on Earth, it will also help the United kingdom from falling under German influence later on.
Definitely by 1950 but I think the key thing would be having it by the Cairo peace as that's pretty much when the borders were set. Britain would need more resources than the home islands and a few isolated parts of the Med to really maintain great power status. Friendship with a largely independent India, possession of Malaya and related areas and holding/liberating New Zealand and parts of Australia would make something more substantial possible, although things would still be stretched. Possibly also parts of Africa that might be less attractive to the Race.
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Post by lordroel on Aug 6, 2018 8:55:56 GMT
But the British could have the bomb before 1950 if they control Norway, this could mean that the British who during the Peace of Cairo of 1944 where only given partial diplomatic recognition (only the three countries of the Soviet Union, Germany and the United States who had developed nuclear weapons and thus given full diplomatic recognition) can be upgraded by the Race to full diplomatic recognition and thus become on of the Big Four countries on Earth, it will also help the United kingdom from falling under German influence later on. Definitely by 1950 but I think the key thing would be having it by the Cairo peace as that's pretty much when the borders were set. Britain would need more resources than the home islands and a few isolated parts of the Med to really maintain great power status. Friendship with a largely independent India, possession of Malaya and related areas and holding/liberating New Zealand and parts of Australia would make something more substantial possible, although things would still be stretched. Possibly also parts of Africa that might be less attractive to the Race.
If I remember correctly, New Zealand was free from Race invasion. |
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Post by stevep on Aug 6, 2018 14:25:36 GMT
Definitely by 1950 but I think the key thing would be having it by the Cairo peace as that's pretty much when the borders were set. Britain would need more resources than the home islands and a few isolated parts of the Med to really maintain great power status. Friendship with a largely independent India, possession of Malaya and related areas and holding/liberating New Zealand and parts of Australia would make something more substantial possible, although things would still be stretched. Possibly also parts of Africa that might be less attractive to the Race.
If I remember correctly, New Zealand was free from Race invasion.
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Post by lordroel on Aug 6, 2018 14:42:04 GMT
If I remember correctly, New Zealand was free from Race invasion. Well according to the Turtledove WikiNew Zealand was one of the small number of countries to survive the Race Invasion of Tosev 3 and retain independence after the Peace of Cairo of 1944. It had an embassy in the U.S. capital of Little Rock. It was by no means a major power, and did not have diplomatic ties to the Race |
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Post by stevep on Aug 6, 2018 17:34:40 GMT
Well according to the Turtledove WikiNew Zealand was one of the small number of countries to survive the Race Invasion of Tosev 3 and retain independence after the Peace of Cairo of 1944. It had an embassy in the U.S. capital of Little Rock. It was by no means a major power, and did not have diplomatic ties to the Race
Ah well, sounds like that's more likely to be accurate that the link I found. In that case New Zealand should be OK but getting the more populated parts of Australia free could be useful.
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Post by lordroel on Aug 6, 2018 17:44:01 GMT
Well according to the Turtledove WikiNew Zealand was one of the small number of countries to survive the Race Invasion of Tosev 3 and retain independence after the Peace of Cairo of 1944. It had an embassy in the U.S. capital of Little Rock. It was by no means a major power, and did not have diplomatic ties to the Race Ah well, sounds like that's more likely to be accurate that the link I found. In that case New Zealand should be OK but getting the more populated parts of Australia free could be useful.
It is mentioned that the Race had the tendency to overlook islands, thus could Ceylon be hold by the British ore is it to close India. If not the British Commonwealth will exist of the United Kingdom and Northern Ireland, Malta, Cyprus, Iceland, Faroe islands, New Zeeland and Canada with Norway and Free Greece (Crete) being under United Kingdom protection. |
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Post by stevep on Aug 6, 2018 18:09:48 GMT
Ah well, sounds like that's more likely to be accurate that the link I found. In that case New Zealand should be OK but getting the more populated parts of Australia free could be useful.
It is mentioned that the Race had the tendency to overlook islands, thus could Ceylon be hold by the British ore is it to close India. If not the British Commonwealth will exist of the United Kingdom and Northern Ireland, Malta, Cyprus, Iceland, Faroe islands, New Zeeland and Canada with Norway and Free Greece (Crete) being under United Kingdom protection.
I suspect that Canada will be drawn into the American sphere, hence why I haven't mentioned it, but would be glad to be wrong. Which might be the case if Britain [probably with substantial Canadian aid] gets a bomb by 44 and hence can sit at the high table and Canada would effectively have their own deterrent.
Yes from what I recall the Race largely discounted islands so could end up with a lot of the southern Pacific islands staying in the empire/Commonwealth.
India might be the big question other than Australia. Given its population and resources, despite some areas being attractive to the Race you might, with better organisation, have it be so troublesome to the Race that they give up most/all of it when the peace is signed. Such an India could well, for reasons of common need have close defensive relations with Britain, although be likely to be formally/politically independent. This might also mean freedom for Nepal as well, although other border areas could be less certain. If with British aid India gains independence it could be at such a loss to the Race that they are forced to concede lands elsewhere. Thinking of a well-organised attrictional war that plays to their weakness of limited numbers, especially when coupled with the heavy losses elsewhere.
Even the best of leadership and luck I can't really see Britain not losing its interests in the ME/N Africa and probably most of rest of Africa as well. Also I can't see the bulk of Australia being freed but hopefully the region west of the Blue Mts, where the bulk of the population is, might be freed in an agreement.
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Post by lordroel on Aug 6, 2018 18:26:10 GMT
Yes from what I recall the Race largely discounted islands so could end up with a lot of the southern Pacific islands staying in the empire/Commonwealth. Have not mention them but i think they might stick to the Commonwealth as will the Caribbean islands who are located not far from Race occupied South America. India might be the big question other than Australia. Given its population and resources, despite some areas being attractive to the Race you might, with better organisation, have it be so troublesome to the Race that they give up most/all of it when the peace is signed. Such an India could well, for reasons of common need have close defensive relations with Britain, although be likely to be formally/politically independent. This might also mean freedom for Nepal as well, although other border areas could be less certain. If with British aid India gains independence it could be at such a loss to the Race that they are forced to concede lands elsewhere. Thinking of a well-organised attrictional war that plays to their weakness of limited numbers, especially when coupled with the heavy losses elsewhere. If the Race gave up India, they would also have to give up China, this from the article from the Turtledove wiki about China under Race occupation: Throughout the rest of the war, the Chinese continued to fight the Race, being the most resistive of all the occupied territories on Earth. When the Race asked for a cease-fire in 1944, the Chinese were not invited to the proceedings as they had already been conquered. Another factor was that both the major Chinese factions demanded that they alone were the true rulers of China. After the Peace of Cairo was signed, China was recognised as a Race colony. The Chinese refused to accept this and continued on in their struggle against the Race, being the most rebellious of all the colonies on Earth. These efforts were assisted indiscreetly by the Soviet Union as well as the United States.
When the Race's Colonization Fleet arrived in 1962, many Race males, from common infantry males to Fleetlord Atvar, often felt frustrated with China, as it was too densely populated to be settled by colonists, but at the same time had to be kept garrisoned to keep up a strong image to other Tosevite powers. Chinese resistance took a heavy toll on Race forces, and it was these casualties that eventually forced Fleetlord Reffet to seriously consider letting Atvar recruit colonists to be soldiers. In spite of the difficulties in holding China, the Race refused to relinquish any of it when Japan acquired nuclear weapons in 1965 and demanded the return of large stretches of their former empire in China.
In 1964 the Race was temporarily expelled from many of China's major cities including Beijing by a coalition of Chinese factions. However, this rebellion was eventually put down. After Germany's defeat in the Race-German War of 1965, the Germans shipped what was left of their equipment over to the Chinese rather than surrendering it to the Race. This sparked a second mainly Communist rebellion, which employed German anti-tank and anti-air missiles to drive the Lizards from Peking and other cities in 1966 and hold them for a longer period of time. Though the Race eventually retook the rebel controlled-territory, they realized that it would probably be necessary to negotiate with the various factions.
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