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Post by simon darkshade on Dec 22, 2019 11:04:36 GMT
Nuclear sharing hasn't really raised its head due to the much heavier rates of proliferation, which result in the Netherlands, Italy, Belgium, Greece and Sweden having their own nuclear weapons systems.
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lordroel
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Post by lordroel on Dec 22, 2019 11:05:54 GMT
Nuclear sharing hasn't really raised its head due to the much heavier rates of proliferation, which result in the Netherlands, Italy, Belgium, Greece and Sweden having their own nuclear weapons systems. True, but Germany could use that system, they can use British ore American weapons and therefore not need to design their own. |
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stevep
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Post by stevep on Dec 22, 2019 11:08:04 GMT
That could occur later down the line, given that the pressures pulling them in different ways. And now, as an extra: 1960s Soviet Tank Production1960: 5244 T-62, 1267 PT-76 1961: 4891 T-62, 1024 T-64, 1085 PT-76 1962: 4777 T-62, 1450 T-64, 923 PT-76 1963: 4410 T-62, 1529 T-64, 988 PT-76 1964: 4625 T-62, 2056 T-64, 882 PT-76 1965: 3972 T-62, 3247 T-64, 903 PT-76, 563 T68 1960s British Tank Production 1960: 2436 (221 Royalist, 250 Super Centurion, 1982 Chieftains, 183 Conquerors) 1961: 2396 (269 Royalists, 150 Super Centurions, 1807 Chieftains, 170 Conquerors) 1962: 2475 (324 Royalists, 1865 Chieftains, 286 Conquerors) 1963: 2587 (381 Royalists, 1963 Chieftains, 243 Conquerors) 1964: 2647 (472 Royalists, 1984 Chieftains, 191 Conquerors) 1965: 2569 (326 Royalists, 2032 Chieftains, 211 Conquerors) 17,334 Chieftains 1960s US Tank Production1960: 4022 (642 M96 Custers, 2984 M60 Pattons) 1961: 4585 (779 M96 Custers, 3806 M60 Pattons 1962: 4821 (914 M96 Custers, 3907 M60 Pattons) 1963: 5068 (963 M96 Custers, 4105 M60 Pattons 1964: 5156 (980 M96 Custers, 4176 M60 Pattons) 1965: 5236 (1028 M96 Custers, 4032 M60 Pattons, 176 M64 Lejeunes)
Now that is interesting and surprising. Soviet production is dropping while British levels are pretty much stable and by 65 within about 65% of the Soviets and the US production is rising, exceeds the Soviets by 62 and well over 1000 greater by 65. I know the US has the industrial capacity and also that it has to consider an imperial China that was a lot stronger than OTL Mao's China at this point but it does seem amazing. Coupled with a unified Germany and an Austria-Hungary in the allied camp along with more of the Balkans I wonder if there is that much real danger of a Soviet conventional attack in Dark Earth.
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Post by simon darkshade on Dec 22, 2019 11:20:22 GMT
The Soviet production rate is a bit deceptive:
1960: 6511
1961: 7000
1962: 7150
1963: 6927
1964: 7563
1965: 8685
They are going to be rising in the second half of the decade. The Soviets have quite a strong force which is going to be increasing in quality as it modernises; the BMP-1 is coming and is very effective.
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Post by simon darkshade on Dec 22, 2019 11:21:30 GMT
Nuclear sharing hasn't really raised its head due to the much heavier rates of proliferation, which result in the Netherlands, Italy, Belgium, Greece and Sweden having their own nuclear weapons systems. True, but Germany could use that system, they can use British ore American weapons and therefore not need to design their own. That would be possible, but neither the USA nor Britain are that keen on providing nuclear warheads to Germany, given that they can fill the same role under their own complete control. |
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Post by simon darkshade on Dec 22, 2019 12:10:14 GMT
Now, where are the other powers headed in the 1960s in terms of tanks?
The French have a new MBT, the AMX-30, which is not like the lightly armoured tank from @, but rather a 55t well-armoured vehicle with a 125mm gun. The AMX-13 has also been upgunned to 90mm.
Germany is looking to eventually replace the mix of the Panther II and Tiger III with a new MBT, which bears some resemblance to the MBT-70, but is armed with a 128mm gun. The Sheridan light tanks have been replaced in frontline service by Leopard II 'light' tanks, which are 36t and armed with a 105mm gun.
Austria-Hungary is building the Panzer 60 as quickly as possible and the Italians are trying to sell their Leones to Yugoslavia, Bulgaria and Albania with considerable pressure.
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stevep
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Post by stevep on Dec 22, 2019 12:32:00 GMT
The Soviet production rate is a bit deceptive: 1960: 6511 1961: 7000 1962: 7150 1963: 6927 1964: 7563 1965: 8685 They are going to be rising in the second half of the decade. The Soviets have quite a strong force which is going to be increasing in quality as it modernises; the BMP-1 is coming and is very effective.
Ah so, there are official figures and the true ones. Which unusually for the Soviets, except in terms of military production, have the true ones being the larger.
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Post by simon darkshade on Dec 22, 2019 12:46:04 GMT
There is that at play, but the last figure refers to the total production per year. The Soviet production rate has typically exceeded or been just below the combined US and British rates.
They have claimed to be building over 10,000 tanks a year on a consistent basis. They will actually rise up to that mark in a few years, albeit briefly.
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Post by simon darkshade on Dec 23, 2019 3:34:43 GMT
This will be the last 'forward' timeline entry for some time, to allow for a number of stories, books and plotlines to catch up to the time without revealing any major developments. When I do 1900-1914 and 1919-1939, there won't quite be the same daily events in some years, by virtue of there being fewer sources for such information.
I'm going to look at WW1 and WW2 at some stage, but what other information, statistics, factfiles or the like would the two readers/commentators be interested in to further the broad picture of Dark Earth?
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lordroel
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Post by lordroel on Dec 23, 2019 4:04:34 GMT
This will be the last 'forward' timeline entry for some time, to allow for a number of stories, books and plotlines to catch up to the time without revealing any major developments. When I do 1900-1914 and 1919-1939, there won't quite be the same daily events in some years, by virtue of there being fewer sources for such information. I'm going to look at WW1 and WW2 at some stage, but what other information, statistics, factfiles or the like would the two readers/commentators be interested in to further the broad picture of Dark Earth? The Great War would be nice to see, especially the adventures of the German East Asian squadron if they where different than OTL. |
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Post by simon darkshade on Dec 23, 2019 5:08:02 GMT
The German ships don’t make it as far as the Falklands before being caught, facing rather more daunting odds.
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lordroel
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Post by lordroel on Dec 23, 2019 5:15:58 GMT
The German ships don’t make it as far as the Falklands before being caught, facing rather more daunting odds. Well that is a shame, have grown on the adventure of Graf Spee squadron of OTL, toughed it could do something like that here as well. |
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Post by simon darkshade on Dec 23, 2019 5:59:48 GMT
The Germans have a larger navy, but so too do the British, Australians, Canadians, New Zealand, New Avalon, France, the Netherlands, Japan, China and Russia. It makes it a bit harder to run across the Pacific successfully.
I’ll put up a thread with a bit of a teaser.
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lordroel
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Post by lordroel on Dec 23, 2019 15:05:28 GMT
The Germans have a larger navy, but so too do the British, Australians, Canadians, New Zealand, New Avalon, France, the Netherlands, Japan, China and Russia. It makes it a bit harder to run across the Pacific successfully. I’ll put up a thread with a bit of a teaser. Thanks for the teaser. |
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Post by simon darkshade on Dec 23, 2019 22:40:31 GMT
You’re quite welcome, as said in the other thread. Before we go back, as it were, are there any further details of the 1960s that would add to understanding or provide a richer picture?
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