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Post by eurowatch on May 19, 2018 0:47:35 GMT
Suppose that The modern Netherlands of 2018 gets send back in time to 1621, right when the Twelve-year Truce ends and Spain restarts the war.
Since this is obviously going to be a Dutch-wank my question is rather:
How will The Netherlands look fifty years later? How will this impact the rest of Europe?
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lordroel
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Post by lordroel on May 19, 2018 8:00:10 GMT
Suppose that The modern Netherlands of 2018 gets send back in time to 1621, right when the Twelve-year Truce ends and Spain restarts the war. Since this is obviously going to be a Dutch-wank my question is rather: How will The Netherlands look fifty years later? How will this impact the rest of Europe? Te world will look very different, if 2018 Netherlands mange to survive a world that will look at them with suspicion and hostility.
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Post by eurowatch on May 19, 2018 8:57:02 GMT
Suppose that The modern Netherlands of 2018 gets send back in time to 1621, right when the Twelve-year Truce ends and Spain restarts the war. Since this is obviously going to be a Dutch-wank my question is rather: How will The Netherlands look fifty years later? How will this impact the rest of Europe? Te world will look very different, if 2018 Netherlands mange to survive a world that will look at them with suspicion and hostility. That Depends on their actions. If they help fight the expanionist Turks many Christians might look at them more favourably because they are fighting "the just fight".
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stevep
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Post by stevep on May 19, 2018 9:09:23 GMT
Suppose that The modern Netherlands of 2018 gets send back in time to 1621, right when the Twelve-year Truce ends and Spain restarts the war. Since this is obviously going to be a Dutch-wank my question is rather: How will The Netherlands look fifty years later? How will this impact the rest of Europe? Te world will look very different, if 2018 Netherlands mange to survive a world that will look at them with suspicion and hostility. Presuming they survive, given questions of loss of international trade I wonder what their reaction will be to a Europe with rabid religious bigotry and intolerance and also very widespread autocracy? For instance there is a small conflict which kicked off in Bohemia three years ago. Also what happens with the Dutch colonies, including New Amsterdam? Spain is going to suffer a kicking, how bad depending on how long it persists. Wonder if the Netherlands will be interested in 'liberating' their lost southern territories? Or possibly restoring Portuguese independence? It won't be able to interfere in every European based 'abuse' as defined by 2018 standards, simply because it won't have the resources or willpower, let alone excesses by other powers. One interesting point here is that while heading that way Japan is not yet in its isolationist period and the Netherlands are IIRC the only power still with contact with it so I wonder if that might be prevented.
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lordroel
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Post by lordroel on May 19, 2018 18:02:50 GMT
Te world will look very different, if 2018 Netherlands mange to survive a world that will look at them with suspicion and hostility. Presuming they survive, given questions of loss of international trade I wonder what their reaction will be to a Europe with rabid religious bigotry and intolerance and also very widespread autocracy? For instance there is a small conflict which kicked off in Bohemia three years ago. Also what happens with the Dutch colonies, including New Amsterdam? Spain is going to suffer a kicking, how bad depending on how long it persists. Wonder if the Netherlands will be interested in 'liberating' their lost southern territories? Or possibly restoring Portuguese independence? It won't be able to interfere in every European based 'abuse' as defined by 2018 standards, simply because it won't have the resources or willpower, let alone excesses by other powers. One interesting point here is that while heading that way Japan is not yet in its isolationist period and the Netherlands are IIRC the only power still with contact with it so I wonder if that might be prevented. What about weapons production, they can produce ships and cars and trucks, but as far as i know weapons and ammunition are not produced in the Netherlands, also Groningen people will be pissed of now that we need to restart gas an oil winning to keep the 2018 Netherlands going.
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Post by eurowatch on May 19, 2018 18:50:22 GMT
Presuming they survive, given questions of loss of international trade I wonder what their reaction will be to a Europe with rabid religious bigotry and intolerance and also very widespread autocracy? For instance there is a small conflict which kicked off in Bohemia three years ago. Also what happens with the Dutch colonies, including New Amsterdam? Spain is going to suffer a kicking, how bad depending on how long it persists. Wonder if the Netherlands will be interested in 'liberating' their lost southern territories? Or possibly restoring Portuguese independence? It won't be able to interfere in every European based 'abuse' as defined by 2018 standards, simply because it won't have the resources or willpower, let alone excesses by other powers. One interesting point here is that while heading that way Japan is not yet in its isolationist period and the Netherlands are IIRC the only power still with contact with it so I wonder if that might be prevented. What about weapons production, they can produce ships and cars and trucks, but as far as i know weapons and ammunition are not produced in the Netherlands, also Groningen people will be pissed of now that we need to restart gas an oil winning to keep the 2018 Netherlands going. Assensys B.V. is still producing munition so they Will be availeble. When it comes to weapons themselves that is an industry that Will have to be restarted, the Netherlands primary military exports are electronic systems like communication Equipment and radars. Farmers are going to be even more pissed, due to that Production now far outstrips demand many of them are going to be out of a job. Really, the only industry that I see as being imediatly happy With the circumstances is the construction industry since all of them now have big contracts lined up for decades to come (all those roads are not going to lay themselves).
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lordroel
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Post by lordroel on May 19, 2018 18:59:43 GMT
What about weapons production, they can produce ships and cars and trucks, but as far as i know weapons and ammunition are not produced in the Netherlands, also Groningen people will be pissed of now that we need to restart gas an oil winning to keep the 2018 Netherlands going. Assensys B.V. is still producing munition so they Will be availeble. When it comes to weapons themselves that is an industry that Will have to be restarted, the Netherlands primary military exports are electronic systems like communication Equipment and radars. Farmers are going to be even more pissed, due to that Production now far outstrips demand many of them are going to be out of a job. Really, the only industry that I see as being imediatly happy With the circumstances is the construction industry since all of them now have big contracts lined up for decades to come (all those roads are not going to lay themselves). Do we know where Maurice, Prince of Orange is alive also, because in 1621 he could be out of the country and taking part in the Siege of Jülich (1621–22)
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Post by eurowatch on May 19, 2018 19:23:52 GMT
Assensys B.V. is still producing munition so they Will be availeble. When it comes to weapons themselves that is an industry that Will have to be restarted, the Netherlands primary military exports are electronic systems like communication Equipment and radars. Farmers are going to be even more pissed, due to that Production now far outstrips demand many of them are going to be out of a job. Really, the only industry that I see as being imediatly happy With the circumstances is the construction industry since all of them now have big contracts lined up for decades to come (all those roads are not going to lay themselves). Do we know if Maurice, Prince of Orange is alive also, because in 1621 he could be out of the country and taking part in the Siege of Jülich (1621–22) If he was inside the town while it was under siege then he should still be alive. It would not be hard for KL and KLm to relieve the siege by applying some death from above.
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lordroel
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Post by lordroel on May 19, 2018 19:31:48 GMT
Do we know if Maurice, Prince of Orange is alive also, because in 1621 he could be out of the country and taking part in the Siege of Jülich (1621–22) If he was inside the town while it was under siege then he should still be alive. It would not be hard for KL and KLm to relieve the siege by applying some death from above. That would be true, ore send in the Korps Commandotroepen, they would be enough. But lets assume Maurice, Prince of Orange is alive, of course he would not be able to lay claim to the Netherlands throne as that is already occupied by King Willem Alexander, but Maurice, Prince of Orange still is head of the Principality of Orange (feudal state in Provence, in the south of modern-day France), Count of Nassau-Dillenburg, Katzenelnbogen, and Vianden, Viscount of Antwerp and Besançon.
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Post by eurowatch on May 19, 2018 19:47:44 GMT
If he was inside the town while it was under siege then he should still be alive. It would not be hard for KL and KLm to relieve the siege by applying some death from above. That would be true, ore send in the Korps Commandotroepen, they would be enough. But lets assume Maurice, Prince of Orange is alive, of course he would not be able to lay claim to the Netherlands throne as that is already occupied by King Willem Alexander, but Maurice, Prince of Orange still is head of the Principality of Orange (feudal state in Provence, in the south of modern-day France), Count of Nassau-Dillenburg, Katzenelnbogen, and Vianden, Viscount of Antwerp and Besançon. Well, there should be a cozy seat for him in Brussels if he wants it. Either that or send him to university to study military strategy so he can join the general staff later. The Hague can't really have him around doing nothing.
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lordroel
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Post by lordroel on May 19, 2018 19:55:28 GMT
That would be true, ore send in the Korps Commandotroepen, they would be enough. But lets assume Maurice, Prince of Orange is alive, of course he would not be able to lay claim to the Netherlands throne as that is already occupied by King Willem Alexander, but Maurice, Prince of Orange still is head of the Principality of Orange (feudal state in Provence, in the south of modern-day France), Count of Nassau-Dillenburg, Katzenelnbogen, and Vianden, Viscount of Antwerp and Besançon. Well, there should be a cozy seat for him in Brussels if he wants it. Either that or send him to university to study military strategy so he can join the general staff later. The Hague can't really have him around doing nothing. Well he could become king of Southern 1621 Netherlands, backed up by 2018 Netherlands, a nice buffer for us so we do not share a border with 1621 France.
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Post by eurowatch on May 19, 2018 20:03:30 GMT
Well, there should be a cozy seat for him in Brussels if he wants it. Either that or send him to university to study military strategy so he can join the general staff later. The Hague can't really have him around doing nothing. Well he could become king of Southern 1621 Netherlands, backed up by 2018 Netherlands, a nice buffer for us so we do not share a border with 1621 France. Wouldn't it be simpler to annex the Southern Netherlands then to establish it as a buffer state? France was Allied With the Republic during the Eighty-years war and while they might not like the modern stance towards religion, they Will like having a powerful ally against Spain.
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lordroel
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Post by lordroel on May 19, 2018 20:09:40 GMT
Well he could become king of Southern 1621 Netherlands, backed up by 2018 Netherlands, a nice buffer for us so we do not share a border with 1621 France. Wouldn't it be simpler to annex the Southern Netherlands then to establish it as a buffer state? France was Allied With the Republic during the Eighty-years war and while they might not like the modern stance towards religion, they Will like having a powerful ally against Spain. Now i look into it, you just ISOT 2018 Netherlands to 1621, the last year of the Twelve Years' Truce. Regarding you question, i think 2018 Netherlands needs 1621 allies, a southern Netherlands under the rule of a very friendly Maurice, Prince of Orange would be good as they have the means to help us fight.
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Post by eurowatch on May 19, 2018 20:15:25 GMT
Wouldn't it be simpler to annex the Southern Netherlands then to establish it as a buffer state? France was Allied With the Republic during the Eighty-years war and while they might not like the modern stance towards religion, they Will like having a powerful ally against Spain. Now i look into it, you just ISOT 2018 Netherlands to 1621, the last year of the Twelve Years' Truce. Regarding you question, i think 2018 Netherlands needs 1621 allies, a southern Netherlands under the rule of a very friendly Maurice, Prince of Orange would be good as they have the means to help us fight. But we would already have France and England to help us. If there is a buffer state we need it would be eastwards, since the Thirty-years war is already tearing the Holy Roman Empire to pieces and potentially start a very big stream of migrants.
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lordroel
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Post by lordroel on May 19, 2018 20:17:24 GMT
Now i look into it, you just ISOT 2018 Netherlands to 1621, the last year of the Twelve Years' Truce. Regarding you question, i think 2018 Netherlands needs 1621 allies, a southern Netherlands under the rule of a very friendly Maurice, Prince of Orange would be good as they have the means to help us fight. But we would already have France and England to help us. If there is a buffer state we need it would be eastwards, since the Thirty-years war is already tearing the Holy Roman Empire to pieces and potentially start a very big stream of migrants. England and France will betray us as, especially France who will not be happy with is going to happen 150 years from now and England just saw a rival appear they might not be able to beat.
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