stevep
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Post by stevep on Mar 25, 2018 13:00:45 GMT
Now that does sound worrying. The fact the useful idiots don't realise that its in Soviet interests to get rid of people who could point the finger at them shows how deluded they are. Also what Lordroel says about the Netherlands could be a problem. Mind you I had a feeling that James said that, apart from Britain, much of western Europe largely escaped the coming conflict? Which is likely to be very bad for Britain with a lot of s**t coming its way. But let’s hope in the end the British second Darkest Hour will pass when it comes. Hope so but something James said about some nukes being used in the US is rather worrying, both for everybody in that region and also for Britain.
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lordroel
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Post by lordroel on Mar 25, 2018 14:09:20 GMT
But let’s hope in the end the British second Darkest Hour will pass when it comes. Hope so but something James said about some nukes being used in the US is rather worrying, both for everybody in that region and also for Britain. Nukes are the new carpet bombing.
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James G
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Post by James G on Mar 25, 2018 14:25:11 GMT
The Netherlands had the Pacifist Socialist Party, it won in OTL due its involved in the organisation of national demonstrations against nuclear weapons in the 1981 election three seats. In the subsequent 1982 election it kept its seats. I could see the PSP win some more seats, maybe two as it runs on a Soviet are out of Europe and we should leave NATO campaign. The Netherlands even has a Communist Party of the Netherlands who in the period of 1977 to its end in 1986 had 3 seats. This is something that I didn't know. Now that does sound worrying. The fact the useful idiots don't realise that its in Soviet interests to get rid of people who could point the finger at them shows how deluded they are. Also what Lordroel says about the Netherlands could be a problem. Mind you I had a feeling that James said that, apart from Britain, much of western Europe largely escaped the coming conflict? Which is likely to be very bad for Britain with a lot of s**t coming its way. Useful idiots are always comfortable being in their bubble. Much of Western Europe will initially escape the INITIAL conflict. Britain and three other European countries with Atlantic coastlines will be involved from the start: all outright attacked not to conqueror but because they are in the way of but useful to the Soviet supply line halfway across the world.
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James G
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Post by James G on Mar 25, 2018 14:26:15 GMT
But let’s hope in the end the British second Darkest Hour will pass when it comes. Hope so but something James said about some nukes being used in the US is rather worrying, both for everybody in that region and also for Britain. Nukes are the new carpet bombing. Nuclear weapons will be used in this story, at the outset. Chemical weapons will get a big role too.
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James G
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Post by James G on Mar 25, 2018 14:28:14 GMT
Chapter Six – Hermanos en Brazos (Brothers in Arms)
(83)
January 1983:
Raúl Castro informed General Noriega that his camarada had been taken for a fool by the United States. Noriega and Torrijos, whom the former had said were hermanos en brazos as Fidel and Raúl were too, had been tricked by Washington and would continue to be so. The President of Panama would go running back to them soon enough and they would play him again for their own ends. Again and again, Torrijos would do harm to Panama because the norteamericanos were masters at such a game of deception. Panama would never get the Canal Zone through diplomacy… like Cuba would never regain Guantanamo Bay by talking to them either. President Kennedy was like his own dead brothers when it came to Latin America: he would keep those in the region down. If Noriega wanted a Panama free, he should turn his mind to thinking of a Panama no longer with Torrijos at the helm.
While he was in Cuba, Noriega was treated to a display of Cuban military power. In the western province of Pindar del Rio there was a large military exercise which took place put on not for him but for another foreign guest in the country at the time: Marshal of the Soviet Union Nikolai Ogarkov. They two of them joined Raúl in watching aircraft, tanks and soldiers take part in a combined arms assault using live ammunition. It went on throughout a full morning and was quite the treat. Ogarkov explained to Noriega that this was all Soviet weaponry on show and not even the latest of gear being sent to Cuba under a newly-signed agreement between Havana and Moscow. With what Cuba had, and what more was on its way, Cuba would be able to defend its interests at home and abroad too. Noriega was no fool. If he had been, he wouldn’t have long been playing the game that he had where he had connections with Cuba and the CIA as well as maintaining Torrijos’ trust. He was aware of what Raúl was doing in hinting at a Panama without Torrijos to him. The presence in Cuba of the Soviet Chief of the General Staff in the country when he was invited here, witnessing a major show of military might, was no coincidence. He was being wooed. Noriega decided that there was no harm in listening further to what the Cubans had to say, was there?
Noriega met with Fidel and the former spy chief Manuel Piñeiro. The pair of Cubans discussed a future for Latin America where it was free of United States domination. The norteamericanos would go home, back to their own country. Guantanamo Bay, the Canal Zone, Puerto Rico and other US-administered islands would all be no longer under their control. Other countries friendly to the United States would turn their favour elsewhere in international relations but, more-importantly, would have governments which listened to their people. Fidel spoke of this ‘freedom’ stretching from the Rio Grande to Barbados to Cape Horn. From Piñeiro, Noriega was told of an idea on how to do just that: having the governments listen to their people. This was all very interesting. Noriega knew how his CIA contacts would love to know of what was said in this meeting he had. He could also imagine what Torrijos would say when he was told of how Cuba wanted governments to listen to their people… if the Panamanian people had a say, Torrijos might be out of power! But then, in all honesty, so might Fidel and his brother if the Cuban people had their way. That was all an aside though. Talk like that, of revolution and liberation, was just talk. It was only about Panama’s future which Noriega cared about, Panama’s future without Torrijos and him in charge as suggested at when he was here in Cuba. He turned the conversation that way: no longer was he just listening, now he was directing the conversation.
Panama needed a strong leader. Noriega told Fidel and Piñeiro that the Panamanian people demanded that their leader was strong. Even with a strong leader holding power, Panama was still at the whim of United States’ meddling though. What could a hypothetical new leader of Panama do about Washington? Fidel said that only by regional countries working together could anything be done. It would be though. The norteamericanos could be forced out. The first step for Panama in seeing that happen, would be to have someone new in charge who understood the new way of thinking. Such a man would have to step up and take action.
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lordroel
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Post by lordroel on Mar 25, 2018 14:32:35 GMT
Hope so but something James said about some nukes being used in the US is rather worrying, both for everybody in that region and also for Britain. Nukes are the new carpet bombing. Nuclear weapons will be used in this story, at the outset. Chemical weapons will get a big role too. Both weapons sound bad, very bad.
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Post by lukedalton on Mar 25, 2018 15:06:57 GMT
Now that does sound worrying. The fact the useful idiots don't realise that its in Soviet interests to get rid of people who could point the finger at them shows how deluded they are. Also what Lordroel says about the Netherlands could be a problem. Mind you I had a feeling that James said that, apart from Britain, much of western Europe largely escaped the coming conflict? Which is likely to be very bad for Britain with a lot of s**t coming its way. Well as in RL there were people that thought the Soviet/put the enemy of the days were the culprit party of litteraly everything, there were also people that will believe that all was a conspiracy/soviet not involved...but honestly it's very very probable that the people that thought that were not goverment friendly from the beginning. In general at the moment the general pubblic will be scared and confused due to the nuclear fear, that the Green can use to win more seats...but unlike the op of the movie, gain control will be impossible for them unless they hold the crucial numbers in a coalition (the extremely more usual type of goverment in Europe with proportional system like Germany and Italy). The RAF on the other side, well i doubt that they will continue to have general support for long, diehard excluded, risking to irradiate half of the nation will have scared everyone and i expect that people will start to talk, expecially with the kind of manhunt the goverment will start (and i don't believe for even a second that anyone freed after the process has not been under surveillance). Regarding green expansion on other nation, well possible but while (relatively)impressive will be very hard to them to be translated in effective influence in the goverment (among many things due to the lack of experience and the fact that unless their number it's critical they will be put in an angle). For the communist parties of Europe, the three big one (Italy, France and Spain), while officially trying to mantain some pubblic facade of unity and civilty, in reality were on the verge of a political divorce (that in OTL was stopped by Gorbachev reform) and they expouse the Eurocommunism doctrine aka they are becoming large social-democratic party that really really don't like the idea to be under Moscow thumb; frankly the British Labour is much much more supportive of Soviet politics of the rest of the big continental communist party. For nation like Netherlands, well even if the communist and green triple their seat in the next election they will have the combined 10% of the parlamient (aka nothing to terribly worries) For Europe, at least in the movie and during the first part of the war, well they were neutral (as the good colonel said: two world war in a century are enough); what kind of neutrality (true or benevolent towards the USA and co.) it's not said, nor is told if this politics last (honestly i doubt that any goverment in Western Europe will feel very safe if the British Island fall as it's really make any strategic option beyond horrible, so i expect that this will be the tipping point). One thing that i wholly agreed during the thread in AH.com was the very pro-allied neutrality, even if i thought that post-war things between the two side of the Atlantic will not be very good (and in general the USA will not a pleaseant place to be if anyone don't toe the official line). Regarding any response to the soviet meddling, frankly even if just mere suspect of the various intelligence and security agencies, well things are coming to be a little too numerous to be totally ignored even if there are no real proof to going pubblic; support for the RAF was know, support for the green was heavily suspected (even if nothing of really important was ever found, probably a case of political motivated paranoia supported by bragging from the other side, but ITTL things seem different). All this hightened tension and greater intrusion of the KGB and co. mean much more probability to agents and sources to be caught
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Post by lukedalton on Mar 25, 2018 16:00:49 GMT
Much of Western Europe will initially escape the INITIAL conflict. Britain and three other European countries with Atlantic coastlines will be involved from the start: all outright attacked not to conqueror but because they are in the way of but useful to the Soviet supply line halfway across the world. While this is logical from the military pow it's extremely risky, even in the early 80's europe were pretty integrated and going that way mean that sooner or later (talking about days, not months or weeks) and the rest of the continent will be involved; the UK can be possible as it has always posed itself apart from the continent (but as Brexit demonstrated, was more perception than economic and military reality) but i doubt that will last too much and expanding the conflict to other european nation from the start mean that you plan to fight all other very soon (nobody likes to be surrounded and frankly the possibility of a Lusitania like accident are too high). Not considering that expanding the conflict it's not a risk that the URSS can take lightly, supply the american front will mean making an herculean effort and the great bulk of the conventional force will be occupied in North America and China, making keep western europe a quiet place a priority worth to sell your firstborn
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James G
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Post by James G on Mar 25, 2018 18:17:43 GMT
The whole Soviet plan for its limited war - if it can be called that - will come off the wheels once it gets going with other countries dragged in. It will not be started with true careful consideration and a lot of it in a wing-and-a-pray fashion. There will be a little thing called OVEREXTENSION to come into play when it gets going.
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James G
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Post by James G on Mar 25, 2018 18:18:54 GMT
(84)
February 1983:
President Nixon had gone to China; his successor President Ford had done the same. President Kennedy was due to go to China later this year. Since Nixon had opened a new page in Sino-American relations in 1972, those relations had been strengthened. China was eager to expand them like the United States was though with each side still apprehensive of the other at the same time. Both Beijing and Washington worried over the other suddenly improving relations with the Soviets over them and in Beijing, Deng had been concerned that just that was happening with Kennedy’s recent dealings with Andropov. Still, while the Americans and the Soviets were talking about troop numbers and nuclear weapons in Europe, relations between the mutual adversaries of Moscow in the form of China and the United States remained strong. These were of the nature of intelligence-sharing and diplomacy in facing off against the Soviet Union though there was too a slow increase in trade links. This had started in the last years of Ford’s presidency and were unaffected by the ’79 war between China and Soviet-backed Vietnam which had forced Chinese-Soviet relations to a nadir. The trans-Pacific trade was small but growing; so too were the recently-established travel links where commercial air passenger services were slowly being opened up between the two countries. It had started with a bi-weekly service between Beijing and Washington with extensions made to Shanghai, San Francisco and New York afterwards. Two American and one Chinese airlines made these flights. They weren’t exactly always full and were thus rather expensive for passengers. Few Chinese had reason to go to the United States (they needed a state-sanctioned one too) and while there were more Americans going to China, the opportunities for business there weren’t that great. Chinese protectionism was only slowly easing up. One of the US-based airlines was soon to cut their service unless things picked up. Business decisions didn’t affect the Chinese government-owned airline which was to fly to America regardless of passenger numbers: that was a political decision.
CAAC Airlines flew a mix of aircraft purchased from Britain, the Soviet Union and the United States for long-range overseas journeys. February 6th 1983 saw one of those shot out of the sky: a Boeing-707 heading from Beijing to San Francisco by way of Alaska. A navigation error saw the aircraft veer too far northwest when over the Sea of Japan and that continued as the flight kept on heading for distant Anchorage. The Boeing-707 kept flying onwards but its course took it over the Sea of Okhotsk rather than direct over the Pacific. The Kuril Islands should have been off the port wing but instead they were off the starboard wing. Flying high and in the darkness, with the initial navigational error continuously getting worse, the Chinese aircraft flew through skies considered by the Soviet Union to be their own without knowing that. The Sea of Okhotsk was only Soviet territorial waters in part along with elements of the air space above. Only Moscow recognised this, not Beijing. The aircraft hadn’t intended to be there but even when it was, there was nothing illegal nor aggressive in this. The Soviets watched the Boeing-707 heading for the Kamchatka Peninsula. This was an area full of closed towns and many sensitive military bases. The civilian airliner didn’t respond to stern warnings to not approach and it was regarded by those on the ground as being a spy aircraft: there had been those before over the Sea of Okhotsk. A pilot sent up in his Sukhoi-15 interceptor made a visual identification of the aircraft as a civilian airliner. He told those on the ground he could see the lights coming from the passenger windows. The orders still came. This was a spy flight and it had ignored warnings to leave Soviet sovereign air space. It was to be shot down. The Su-15 put a pair of air-to-air missiles into the Boeing-707. They hit and down when the airliner: it made impact with the Sea of Okhotsk far below. One hundred and fourteen passengers and crew were aboard: twenty-eight of whom were American citizens.
It was winter in North East Asia. The Sea of Okhotsk wasn’t an area for much civilian shipping nor commercial flying. The only witness to the shoot down was the interceptor pilot. He was isolated from the rest of his comrades in his regiment when he returned to base and flown to the Far Eastern Military District headquarters – from where the shoot-down order came – at Khabarovsk for a debriefing. That wasn’t going to be a fun experience for him. Soviet radar operators and ground control officers who witnessed on radar screens and through radio channels of what happened were taken off duty as well for less-intensive debriefings. For the first two days following the shoot down, there was no comment from the Soviet Armed Forces nor the Foreign Ministry about the missing airliner. Elsewhere, there was plenty being said. The civilian jet missed a communications check soon after it crashed into the ocean with air traffic controllers in Japan and then with those in Alaska. No one responded to the many radio calls. An emergency was declared by both the Japanese and the Americans beginning with civilian authorities. The Chinese were informed that one of their aircraft might have had an accident. The Soviets were asked for help as well. The problem was that no one was sure where the missing aircraft went down. It was meant to be over the northeastern reaches of the Pacific and so that was where a search began to look for wreckage and hopefully survivors too.
The DIA and NSA – two American intelligence agencies – operated undeclared listening stations within China. They were focused on gathering intelligence from within the Soviet Union with their locations being priceless. Everything had to be shared with the Chinese (though not everything actually was) for them to continue to operate from Chinese soil. The radio transmissions concerning the Chinese airliner, from the warnings to leave Soviet air space to open fire on the aircraft to confirmation that it was down, were picked up and then work went on decoding them. Those who did so had no idea until afterwards what they had because their job was just to decode anything and everything. What they did end up having was proof that the Soviets had shot down an unarmed airliner and not said anything about it. There was actually a pretence made that there could be Soviet help given to search for the aircraft out in the Pacific when they knew that it had been purposely brought down over the Sea of Okhotsk. This information was passed to governments in Beijing and Washington. Deng called it ‘air piracy’ and ‘murder’; Kennedy made a statement deeming it an ‘outrage’ and called for an international investigation. The Soviets denied everything. The recordings of intercepted radio transmissions (sources unrevealed) were made available to the media. A forgery, said Gromyko, and an attempt to frame the Soviet Union for something it hadn’t done. There was a stream of allegations and counter-allegations between national capitals. All the while, the bodies of those aboard remained inside the broken Boeing-707 at the bottom of the sea with only the Soviets having an idea of where they were located… but having sent so-called rescue ships out into the Pacific instead.
Deng considered the whole thing a deliberate act. The Americans told him that shooting down the airliner was done on purpose but it appeared to be a decision made by local commanders and not authorised by Moscow. That was foolish, Deng believed. He was certain that the whole thing had been arranged in Moscow and stage-managed throughout. Somehow that airliner had been tricked into flying where it had and then carefully shot down. His conspiracy theory was a bit much for the Americans yet they weren’t looking at the whole thing like Deng was when considering the bigger picture. The Soviets had done this to tell China to back off. Back off with putting pressure on Vietnam to withdraw from Cambodia. Back off supplying Pakistan with weapons to be pointed at Soviet-friendly India & Soviet-dominated Afghanistan. Back off with the People’s Liberation Army sitting right on the border with the Soviet Union. Back off working with the Americans to not just spy on the Soviet Union but help to try to encircle the country too. Deng wouldn’t back off. He wasn’t one to give into intimidation. The Americans politely asked him to re-consider his conspiracy theory but he won’t. They didn’t see what he did. Everything the Soviets did was carefully planned out a long time ahead with desired end results.
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lordroel
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Post by lordroel on Mar 25, 2018 18:29:19 GMT
(84)February 1983: President Nixon had gone to China; his successor President Ford had done the same. President Kennedy was due to go to China later this year. Since Nixon had opened a new page in Sino-American relations in 1972, those relations had been strengthened. China was eager to expand them like the United States was though with each side still apprehensive of the other at the same time. Both Beijing and Washington worried over the other suddenly improving relations with the Soviets over them and in Beijing, Deng had been concerned that just that was happening with Kennedy’s recent dealings with Andropov. Still, while the Americans and the Soviets were talking about troop numbers and nuclear weapons in Europe, relations between the mutual adversaries of Moscow in the form of China and the United States remained strong. These were of the nature of intelligence-sharing and diplomacy in facing off against the Soviet Union though there was too a slow increase in trade links. This had started in the last years of Ford’s presidency and were unaffected by the ’79 war between China and Soviet-backed Vietnam which had forced Chinese-Soviet relations to a nadir. The trans-Pacific trade was small but growing; so too were the recently-established travel links where commercial air passenger services were slowly being opened up between the two countries. It had started with a bi-weekly service between Beijing and Washington with extensions made to Shanghai, San Francisco and New York afterwards. Two American and one Chinese airlines made these flights. They weren’t exactly always full and were thus rather expensive for passengers. Few Chinese had reason to go to the United States (they needed a state-sanctioned one too) and while there were more Americans going to China, the opportunities for business there weren’t that great. Chinese protectionism was only slowly easing up. One of the US-based airlines was soon to cut their service unless things picked up. Business decisions didn’t affect the Chinese government-owned airline which was to fly to America regardless of passenger numbers: that was a political decision. CAAC Airlines flew a mix of aircraft purchased from Britain, the Soviet Union and the United States for long-range overseas journeys. February 6th 1983 saw one of those shot out of the sky: a Boeing-707 heading from Beijing to San Francisco by way of Alaska. A navigation error saw the aircraft veer too far northwest when over the Sea of Japan and that continued as the flight kept on heading for distant Anchorage. The Boeing-707 kept flying onwards but its course took it over the Sea of Okhotsk rather than direct over the Pacific. The Kuril Islands should have been off the port wing but instead they were off the starboard wing. Flying high and in the darkness, with the initial navigational error continuously getting worse, the Chinese aircraft flew through skies considered by the Soviet Union to be their own without knowing that. The Sea of Okhotsk was only Soviet territorial waters in part along with elements of the air space above. Only Moscow recognised this, not Beijing. The aircraft hadn’t intended to be there but even when it was, there was nothing illegal nor aggressive in this. The Soviets watched the Boeing-707 heading for the Kamchatka Peninsula. This was an area full of closed towns and many sensitive military bases. The civilian airliner didn’t respond to stern warnings to not approach and it was regarded by those on the ground as being a spy aircraft: there had been those before over the Sea of Okhotsk. A pilot sent up in his Sukhoi-15 interceptor made a visual identification of the aircraft as a civilian airliner. He told those on the ground he could see the lights coming from the passenger windows. The orders still came. This was a spy flight and it had ignored warnings to leave Soviet sovereign air space. It was to be shot down. The Su-15 put a pair of air-to-air missiles into the Boeing-707. They hit and down when the airliner: it made impact with the Sea of Okhotsk far below. One hundred and fourteen passengers and crew were aboard: twenty-eight of whom were American citizens. It was winter in North East Asia. The Sea of Okhotsk wasn’t an area for much civilian shipping nor commercial flying. The only witness to the shoot down was the interceptor pilot. He was isolated from the rest of his comrades in his regiment when he returned to base and flown to the Far Eastern Military District headquarters – from where the shoot-down order came – at Khabarovsk for a debriefing. That wasn’t going to be a fun experience for him. Soviet radar operators and ground control officers who witnessed on radar screens and through radio channels of what happened were taken off duty as well for less-intensive debriefings. For the first two days following the shoot down, there was no comment from the Soviet Armed Forces nor the Foreign Ministry about the missing airliner. Elsewhere, there was plenty being said. The civilian jet missed a communications check soon after it crashed into the ocean with air traffic controllers in Japan and then with those in Alaska. No one responded to the many radio calls. An emergency was declared by both the Japanese and the Americans beginning with civilian authorities. The Chinese were informed that one of their aircraft might have had an accident. The Soviets were asked for help as well. The problem was that no one was sure where the missing aircraft went down. It was meant to be over the northeastern reaches of the Pacific and so that was where a search began to look for wreckage and hopefully survivors too. The DIA and NSA – two American intelligence agencies – operated undeclared listening stations within China. They were focused on gathering intelligence from within the Soviet Union with their locations being priceless. Everything had to be shared with the Chinese (though not everything actually was) for them to continue to operate from Chinese soil. The radio transmissions concerning the Chinese airliner, from the warnings to leave Soviet air space to open fire on the aircraft to confirmation that it was down, were picked up and then work went on decoding them. Those who did so had no idea until afterwards what they had because their job was just to decode anything and everything. What they did end up having was proof that the Soviets had shot down an unarmed airliner and not said anything about it. There was actually a pretence made that there could be Soviet help given to search for the aircraft out in the Pacific when they knew that it had been purposely brought down over the Sea of Okhotsk. This information was passed to governments in Beijing and Washington. Deng called it ‘air piracy’ and ‘murder’; Kennedy made a statement deeming it an ‘outrage’ and called for an international investigation. The Soviets denied everything. The recordings of intercepted radio transmissions (sources unrevealed) were made available to the media. A forgery, said Gromyko, and an attempt to frame the Soviet Union for something it hadn’t done. There was a stream of allegations and counter-allegations between national capitals. All the while, the bodies of those aboard remained inside the broken Boeing-707 at the bottom of the sea with only the Soviets having an idea of where they were located… but having sent so-called rescue ships out into the Pacific instead. Deng considered the whole thing a deliberate act. The Americans told him that shooting down the airliner was done on purpose but it appeared to be a decision made by local commanders and not authorised by Moscow. That was foolish, Deng believed. He was certain that the whole thing had been arranged in Moscow and stage-managed throughout. Somehow that airliner had been tricked into flying where it had and then carefully shot down. His conspiracy theory was a bit much for the Americans yet they weren’t looking at the whole thing like Deng was when considering the bigger picture. The Soviets had done this to tell China to back off. Back off with putting pressure on Vietnam to withdraw from Cambodia. Back off supplying Pakistan with weapons to be pointed at Soviet-friendly India & Soviet-dominated Afghanistan. Back off with the People’s Liberation Army sitting right on the border with the Soviet Union. Back off working with the Americans to not just spy on the Soviet Union but help to try to encircle the country too. Deng wouldn’t back off. He wasn’t one to give into intimidation. The Americans politely asked him to re-consider his conspiracy theory but he won’t. They didn’t see what he did. Everything the Soviets did was carefully planned out a long time ahead with desired end results. So we see the beginning of Sino-Soviet tensions.
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lordbyron
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Post by lordbyron on Mar 25, 2018 18:33:36 GMT
Oh, boy, TTL's equivalent of KAL 007. Kennedy's handling of this will be bad, methinks...
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James G
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Post by James G on Mar 25, 2018 18:44:33 GMT
So we see the beginning of Sino-Soviet tensions. They've been very bad for some time but now it begins... stretching out for the next year and a half in the story. Oh, boy, TTL's equivalent of KAL 007. Kennedy's handling of this will be bad, methinks... That is what I based it on. He'll f*** up because that is what he does internationally though the truth actually is that it was a local commander's decision (that happened a lot during the Cold War) and not a big conspiracy. Once he sticks his beak in, it's bound to cause more mess.
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lordroel
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Post by lordroel on Mar 25, 2018 19:06:49 GMT
So we see the beginning of Sino-Soviet tensions. They've been very bad for some time but now it begins... stretching out for the next year and a half in the story. Oh, boy, TTL's equivalent of KAL 007. Kennedy's handling of this will be bad, methinks... That is what I based it on. He'll f*** up because that is what he does internationally though the truth actually is that it was a local commander's decision (that happened a lot during the Cold War) and not a big conspiracy. Once he sticks his beak in, it's bound to cause more mess. Will we see a UN condemnation and a Soviet veto.
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James G
Squadron vice admiral
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Post by James G on Mar 25, 2018 19:39:25 GMT
They've been very bad for some time but now it begins... stretching out for the next year and a half in the story. That is what I based it on. He'll f*** up because that is what he does internationally though the truth actually is that it was a local commander's decision (that happened a lot during the Cold War) and not a big conspiracy. Once he sticks his beak in, it's bound to cause more mess. Will we see a UN condemnation and a Soviet veto. Ah, I hadn't thought of that. Thank you. I'll add it to the next update, which concerns a far smaller air disaster in Central America.
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