lordroel
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Post by lordroel on Mar 1, 2018 17:47:47 GMT
I have nothing in my notes beyond 'Pope' when it comes to this matter. It's important to the story but how to play it in and the consequences at once and later matter. I need a lot of thinking. What happens won't be the same as OTL though. Well i do not remember these events so you are right, this is not like OTL.
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James G
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Post by James G on Mar 1, 2018 19:33:31 GMT
[Part II]
Chapter Four – A New Hope
(51)
January 1981:
January was a busy time in Washington with a new Congress to be sworn in, presidential appointments to be approved and the inauguration too. Back in November when Kennedy had beaten Reagan, there had been federal (as well as state and local) elections that day too. Representatives and senators were sworn in days into 1981 with Congress being back in session after the Christmas and New Year’s break. There had been changes in the composition of both the House and the Senate due to the elections with previous members having retired or lost elections. The Democrats remained in control of each, though with things far tighter than previously in the Senate: several Democratic senators had already vacated their seats – Kennedy and Glenn – after being elected to the presidency & vice presidency with later special elections needing to take place in Massachusetts and Ohio. Furthermore, others were expected to join them in taking various government roles. Before then though, there was a lot to do.
Between his election and the upcoming inauguration, there had been several planned newspaper stories about Kennedy spiked by editors and boards. This was done for the good of the country. The people didn’t need to know everything, it was decided, and the journalists who uncovered certain things weren’t allowed to see their work printed and released to the public. One newspaper sat on a story that Kennedy and his wife had unofficially separated back in ’79 and were only maintaining a façade of a marriage which they intended to do once in the White House as well. Another story spiked was that alleging – though with some proof to it – that during the early part of the campaign, Kennedy had been conducting an extramarital affair with a campaign volunteer and boozing heavily when he wasn’t alone with her before he cut both out (for the time being anyway). None of this came out and the public was left in the dark. Journalists weren’t the only ones who knew these things – and others – about the personal life of the president-elect: several of those in Congress did as well. Everyone shut up, everyone was either focused on the Kennedy magic or waiting until they felt the time was right to use what they knew to their own advantage. Washington: what more needs to be said?
Those whom Kennedy wanted to serve in his Cabinet but also in so many more roles across the government needed to be approved by the Senate. Hearings got underway. There had been pre-vetting and cases of potential appointees already dropping out before January. A lot of what was done now was for show. There were games being played to get concessions on other matters by some while others just wanted to delay and weaken Kennedy. Democrats joined Republicans in doing this too: Kennedy had opponents within his own party, many with strong personal animosity towards him. It was said that if Baker – following his vice presidential bid alongside Reagan – had remained in Washington late last year instead of being on the road campaigning, the Senate minority leader might have been better able to stop Kennedy getting more appointments through by whipping his Republican senators in-line to join with hostile Democrats. Alas, that didn’t happen. The Republicans weren’t organised enough and Democratic opponents of the president-elect not prepared to go all the way on many issues: sniping was done but final objections were missing in the majority of cases. Democratic senators were under pressure to follow the message of hope, a new hope, which came with a president from their party who was committed to many of their own causes even when there were issues with him on other matters. Treasury Secretary Birch Bayh, Secretary of State Walter Mondale and even the contentious Edmund Muskie for Secretary of Defence eventually got approval. With the latter, his appointment was opposed more strongly than any other, especially by the Republicans. Plenty of Democrats didn’t want him anywhere near the Pentagon either; the presence of Glenn as vice president tempered a lot of that though as he was seen as a counter to Muskie. Domestic affairs were meant to be the focus of Kennedy’s presidency anyway with assurances made that the economy would be fixed, getting the Equal Rights & DC Voting Amendments passed and universal free healthcare into law were seen as the priorities for the Kennedy Administration. Foreign affairs were important, very important all could agree, but the focus was to be on those issues for the president.
The day before the inauguration, Secret Service agents and DC Police arrested a young man in the city. His name was John Hinckley Jnr. He was carrying a gun loaded with explosive-tipped bullets. He had a fascination with a certain film and an actress who stared in that. He had previously been detained – without a weapon – back in Michigan last summer when Ford had been speaking in his home state. Later, Hinckley would confess that he was only scouting for a later attempt to kill the president. He wanted to do so to impress that actress and win her over in that manner: if it had been Reagan instead of Kennedy, it wouldn’t have mattered to him because everything was about that actress. He was locked up and would be given the treatment needed. That troubled chap was one of several threats – though the most serious – identified by the Secret Service when it came to protecting Kennedy. He was a divisive man with fierce opponents in public yet determined others not so visible. Protecting him was going to be a lot of hard work. Everyone remembered his brothers Jack & Robert and what happened to them… there was also the silly Curse of Tippecanoe to consider as well when it came to the president-elect.
On January 20th. Kennedy was no longer president-elect. The inauguration went off without a hitch. Ted Kennedy became the thirty-ninth President of the United States. The handover of power was completed without drama. Kennedy spoke to the nation as their president for the first time. He had a lot to say in a long speech which did drag on a bit. His themes of liberalism appealed to many and exasperated others, even disgusted some. The domestic-focused speech eventually moved at the end to foreign affairs and national security. Under the Kennedy Administration there would be no more secret, dirty wars. Nations who wanted American support and aid would be expected to respect the human rights of their citizens or face a cut in that backing. The United States only wanted peaceful relations with others. Bullies would be opposed though and aggression met when it rose. Kennedy then spoke of nuclear weapons: there would be a nuclear freeze on the development and deployment of new weapons as was set by the SALT II treaty signed by Ford. In addition, Kennedy would engage with the Soviet Union on further treaties to deal with nuclear weapons. To show his seriousness on this issue, the new president announced that he would be speaking to his NATO allies about ‘postponing’ the deployment authorised by his predecessor of GLCM cruise missiles to Western Europe: this is how they found out about this, being told in this manner.
President Kennedy would start as he would go on, upsetting allies by doing things his way. The press would later call it the ‘Sinatra Doctrine’ (linking back to his history with his deceased eldest brother and that singer); others would call it ‘f***ing idiocy’.
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lordroel
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Post by lordroel on Mar 1, 2018 19:40:18 GMT
[Part II]The day before the inauguration, Secret Service agents and DC Police arrested a young man in the city. His name was John Hinckley Jnr. He was carrying a gun loaded with explosive-tipped bullets. He had a fascination with a certain film and an actress who stared in that. He had previously been detained – without a weapon – back in Michigan last summer when Ford had been speaking in his home state. Later, Hinckley would confess that he was only scouting for a later attempt to kill the president. I wonder, what if he succeeded, would the events that are coming be prevented, but that is another timeline i guess.
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James G
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Post by James G on Mar 1, 2018 19:49:50 GMT
[Part II]The day before the inauguration, Secret Service agents and DC Police arrested a young man in the city. His name was John Hinckley Jnr. He was carrying a gun loaded with explosive-tipped bullets. He had a fascination with a certain film and an actress who stared in that. He had previously been detained – without a weapon – back in Michigan last summer when Ford had been speaking in his home state. Later, Hinckley would confess that he was only scouting for a later attempt to kill the president. I wonder, what if he succeeded, would the events that are coming be prevented, but that is another timeline i guess. John Glenn would have been a decent enough president if things had gone that way there but probably not a winner in '84.
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lordroel
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Post by lordroel on Mar 1, 2018 19:51:08 GMT
I wonder, what if he succeeded, would the events that are coming be prevented, but that is another timeline i guess. John Glenn would have been a decent enough president if things had gone that way there but probably not a winner in '84. Well lets see what Kennedy will do tho makes thing worst for America.
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stevep
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Post by stevep on Mar 1, 2018 21:28:46 GMT
I have nothing in my notes beyond 'Pope' when it comes to this matter. It's important to the story but how to play it in and the consequences at once and later matter. I need a lot of thinking. What happens won't be the same as OTL though. Well i do not remember these events so you are right, this is not like OTL. I do remember those events but thinking more simply that between the Pope being very hostile to the Soviets, especially when the latter are being even more successful and violent than OTL and the behaviour of the Soviet regime I would expect some simple solution to be considered.
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James G
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Post by James G on Mar 2, 2018 6:54:43 GMT
Well i do not remember these events so you are right, this is not like OTL. I do remember those events but thinking more simply that between the Pope being very hostile to the Soviets, especially when the latter are being even more successful and violent than OTL and the behaviour of the Soviet regime I would expect some simple solution to be considered. Andropov took care of Khomeini for less than what John Paul II will do. I've had some ideas and we'll be looking at this over the weekend.
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James G
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Post by James G on Mar 2, 2018 15:53:09 GMT
(52)
February 1981:
Andropov had been appointed to head the Funeral Committee when Brezhnev died back in 1977 on the recommendation of the Soviet Communist Party’s second secretary Mikhail Suslov with the effective ideological chief therefore giving the then head of the KGB the nod to replace Brezhnev. The symbolism of that role at such a time had been important and showed the faith in Andropov from Suslov to afterwards become general secretary. Behind the scenes, the two of them had come to an arrangement with Andropov agreeing to collective leadership within the Politburo yet with him becoming the first among equals. Suslov had been there through the reign of Stalin, the aftermath of the death of that dictator, Khrushchev’s rule and the rise of Brezhnev. He had no wish to see a return to what he regarded as the mistakes of the past. The private agreement between the two men, with Andropov being somewhat of a protégé of Suslov, also covered the matter of Andropov leaving the KGB behind him as he resigned his position as chairman when he took up that role upon being in-charge of that funeral and then moving into the general secretary position. Andropov hadn’t made the direct transfer from the Lubyanka to the Kremlin… not officially anyway as for three weeks he had been in between the two. The replacement for Andropov had been Chebrikov and Andropov was meant to have no more influence there at the KGB. However, Chebrikov had his own arrangements with Andropov afterwards, ones kept from Suslov and the others, with his own support base built within the Politburo with Andropov’s help; the latter had wanted something in exchange and that was Chebrikov’s support. The whole of the Politburo was full of these secret agreements and alliances between members, those who’d been around a long time such as Gromyko and Ustinov had theirs too. Some of the alliances had been broken though with first Kosygin and then Kirilenko falling from power when those who’d previously supported them had withdrawn that. Andropov and Chebrikov were still allied in secret though.
Meeting alone in mid-February before an official state visit to Bulgaria by Andropov, the general secretary and the KGB chairman discussed several matters that the two of them had been in routine contact on. These concerned foreign affairs and were what Andropov wanted Chebrikov to look for when it came for ‘opportunities’ which might arise when it came to using the KGB to aid the security of that state. As had been done before, Chebrikov discussed such opportunities with Andropov: significant ones in the past had been the idea of killing Khomeini and also making sure that Castro directed his attention correctly in Central America. Pakistan was up for the discussion in this latest meeting first. Chebrikov spoke of how the support for the rebels in Afghanistan had now dried up from inside Pakistan’s ISI – their state within a state which was their military intelligence – and the affect that was having in Pakistan with noses put out of joint there. Andropov poured cold water on one idea of Chebrikov’s when it came to dealing further with Pakistan though gave his backing to another. It was the same when it came to an opportunity spotted in Central America with El Salvador on the cusp of civil war: Andropov nodded at one suggestion and shook his head at another. When the Politburo would discuss such matters, the understanding between Andropov and Chebrikov on them beforehand would affect how they were presented there. Greece was then addressed. There was an upcoming election in that country later in the year with the opposition looking in a strong position. Some of its policy platforms, especially when it came to Greece’s role in Europe and NATO, would suit Soviet interests. Andropov nodded his head of his support for the encouragement by the KGB in making sure that the Greek opposition should not just win that election but also keep its promises too on what would be done once in power. Chebrikov said it would be difficult though not impossible; Andropov asked him to present the matter in more optimistic terms to the Politburo when it was brought to them.
The two men moved away from opportunities spotted by the KGB. They spoke of Ustinov’s continued military build-up of Soviet arms and KGB support in acquiring (stealing) Western military technology. Soviet oil export revenues was another matter up for discussion with the latest private concerns between them that the money tap could be turned off if other exporters abroad – old and new – carried on with what they were doing. Chebrikov would bring ideas on that second matter the next time the two of them met though Andropov said that others on the Politburo were already thinking of exploring other angles when it came to overt diplomacy rather than covert actions. The general secretary would rather have both available to him and the KGB chairman – who longed to one day have Andropov’s position – agreed that that was the best idea. War with the West was to be avoided, they each were in unison about, but everything else was on the table.
Finally, the two of them talked about the Pope. How many divisions did the Bishop of Rome have? Such was the rhetorical question attributed in legend to Stalin. None was the answer. Still, the man was a thorn in their side. Since the crackdown in Poland, one done by Poles to Poles and which seemed to have had the desired effect (for now anyway), he had continued to attack the Soviet Union indirectly as being behind it. The foolish man wouldn’t let it go. Chebrikov asked whether he should look at opportunities on that too. It was unsaid what he meant but it didn’t need to be. The Persian Trotsky who had been Khomeini, another troublesome religious man, had been an opportunity before his assassination for which others had been framed. Andropov said that Chebrikov should start to consider a measure to take against the attacks from the Pope. He was off to Bulgaria to meet with a regime he was friendly with. Andropov would think more about his latest opponent on the way there and when in Bulgaria. Maybe he would talk with someone he could trust in Bulgaria about it when he was in Sofia?
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lordroel
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Post by lordroel on Mar 2, 2018 15:55:40 GMT
How many divisions did the Bishop of Rome have? Such was the rhetorical question attributed in legend to Stalin. None was the answer. Wondered if this quote would show up.
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lordbyron
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Post by lordbyron on Mar 2, 2018 21:40:35 GMT
I suspect poor ol' Ted Kennedy won't be regarded as a good president prewar; hell, he'd probably be up there with James Buchanan...
Waiting for more, of course...
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archangel
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Post by archangel on Mar 3, 2018 1:49:10 GMT
An attack on the Pope will anger a lot of people, more than the soviet union has in numbers.
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lordroel
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Post by lordroel on Mar 3, 2018 7:17:13 GMT
An attack on the Pope will anger a lot of people, more than the soviet union has in numbers. But not if it looks like a something like the OTL assassination with no link to the Soviet Union.
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Post by lukedalton on Mar 3, 2018 10:43:37 GMT
An attack on the Pope will anger a lot of people, more than the soviet union has in numbers. But not if it looks like a something like the OTL assassination with no link to the Soviet Union. Oh, everybody strongly suspected (believed) that were the Bulgarians behind it, and if they had done it even a blind, mute and deaf will know that the real culprit were the soviets. OTL the italian investigation, with the Pope still alive, simply chose to well...stop at a certain point to not create a diplomatic scandal of epic proportion expecially with the shooter already in custody
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lordroel
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Post by lordroel on Mar 3, 2018 10:49:28 GMT
But not if it looks like a something like the OTL assassination with no link to the Soviet Union. Oh, everybody strongly suspected (believed) that were the Bulgarians behind it, and if they had done it even a blind, mute and deaf will know that the real culprit were the soviets. OTL the italian investigation, with the Pope still alive, simply chose to well...stop at a certain point to not create a diplomatic scandal of epic proportion expecially with the shooter already in custody But do you really think that this will lead to World War III.
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stevep
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Post by stevep on Mar 3, 2018 11:00:05 GMT
Oh, everybody strongly suspected (believed) that were the Bulgarians behind it, and if they had done it even a blind, mute and deaf will know that the real culprit were the soviets. OTL the italian investigation, with the Pope still alive, simply chose to well...stop at a certain point to not create a diplomatic scandal of epic proportion expecially with the shooter already in custody But do you really think that this will lead to World War III. Not in itself but it will make the Catholic world especially, but also a lot of the rest of the world a lot more hostile to the USSR and its methods. Both because John Paul II was very popular and because taking out leaders is a BIG diplomatic no-no as it makes every political figure very nervous. If there was a successful assassination of a Polish Pope who had been criticising Soviet behaviour in eastern Europe then even without evidence a lot of people would suspect the Soviets were responsible. There is likely to be major unrest, not just in Poland but in other Catholic areas of the Soviet empire. It could also harden resistance to the communists in central America. I remember the pope made at least one big visit to the region OTL but not sure if that was before this date and where, other than Mexico he actually went. In real life, rather than fiction a successful assassination, especially if with any evidence of Soviet involvement, would probably be a huge disaster for the Soviets as it would rank up hostility to them and just about everything they do/support.
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