stevep
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Post by stevep on Nov 24, 2018 20:36:24 GMT
Ouch that last bit was nasty for the BC forces. Hopefully the Soviets are wrong about the level of destruction their caused. Otherwise looking like the Soviet position in N America is rolling ever closer to destruction and defeat, possibly with a fairly rapid collapse.
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Post by lukedalton on Nov 24, 2018 21:24:23 GMT
- Taking in consideration that your definition of 'throwing his weight around' and 'being an arsehole' for the EEC/EDA/EU seem to be her mere existence i found difficult not see problems, jest aside, yes as i pointed out many and many times the arguments that i made are valid only if there no conflict or a very limited (conventional) one; and while there will be mistrust...usually nation tend to be very pragmatic when economic recovery and recostruction is necessary, expecially when the other side seem to be the only real game in town capable of give immediate support.
No actually I've been thinking of the usual assumptions you and Eurowatch have of the EU or in TTL whatever political bloc the EDA becomes, of being control freaks and seeking to dominate everybody and the suggestions that the allies will be dependent on them because if the allies don't do what the 'EU' wants they will deny funds for reconstruction. One of you was even talking about France blocking the UK from whatever closed economic and military union would replace the EEC, which hardly sounds like a friendly act.
Exactly my point. Its relative position is greater than it was pre-war. As such it doesn't need to replace losses in the foreseeable future. The EDA can't threaten it because even if it desires an arms race it doesn't have the capacity to do so.
Actually wrong. Her policies to strip assets and reduce competition and economic opportunities are the major reason for the relative British economic decline in the recent decades. This might also change now especially since the surviving 'Wets' are likely to be strengthened. Also it would probably take less time to restore the oil rigs than you hope. Given that there is likely to be a shortage of oil prices are likely to be high and there is also the possibility of getting loans for reconstruction on the basis of those reserves even while their in the seabed. There will be a need for a lot of reconstruction and if the EDA play hard-ball with harsh conditions then it will take longer but it can still be done. This of course assumes that the EDA is in a condition to make sure loans/grants which is still to be seen.
That's assuming the EDA is willing to do that on non-commercial terms. And again that its in a position to do so. Even without and with the sometimes openly illegal protectionist polices employed during this period the EDA will still but a lot from Japan simply because its the most efficient producer in the world. If they don't plenty of other nations will be.
Yes they won't like the bullying but then to a degree their used to it and the US has won, which means a lot. Plus what options do they have? They will continue to trade with other powers but be economically and politically heavily influenced by the US and very likely continue to squabble among themselves.
As I have mentioned before you and eurowatch have assumed that because so far the TL has been a wank for the EDA its going to continue to do so. Very far from the case. They could still be attacked in which case they might end up in a worse condition that the US, let alone Britain. If they attack the Soviets they could find a nuclear response. If they don't attack and as seems very likely a new leadership in Moscow sees sense then they could be left fairly isolated and facing a continued Soviet empire, including all of eastern Europe and without being able to rely on allied support. Which would mean they would need to maintain something like the current defense spending/military commitments or higher which would be a serious economic problem.
I will stop answering after that because as usual there is the risk to hijack the thread.
- Stevep, can you point where i said that the EDA/EEC/my grandma in a ferrari/whatever will dominate everybody being a control freaks and seem to enstablish the millenial reich? I merely said that while there will be resentment in UK (and USA), at this stage with the western european economies being relatevely untouched (at the moment), post-war nor London and neither Washington have the mean to refuse to commerce with them, wage some trade war or being too choosy over the origin of the financial aid. Sure they will probably prefer not, but usually nation are very pragmatic in this situation and till the worst is past they will not press much this factor. If for you this is the Juggernaut of the evil european empire (tm) wanting to take control of everyone...well it's another situation.
- For the US Navy, it's not just the problem of replacing the loss, but also the mantenaince of the remaining ships (plus the repair of the damaged one) and frankly the 6 months of war will count for years of continued use, not considering that after the war money will be tight; so it's very probable that the number of ships will be cut or even better some sold to recoup some money. It will be the relatevely strongest navy of the world, but the distance between her and the Marine Nationale or Marina Militare will be a lot shorter than before the war, India will probably step up any naval program that they have to gain regional dominance.
The US Navy will remain the top dog, it's just that the regional possible adversary will be in relation more stronger than before, unless commitment will be cut to concentrate on the most important theatre.
- I don't hope nothing, this is just a story, a well written and entertaining story but still a story, nothing wrote here will change my real life, i merely point out that the biggest problem in the developement of the North Sea oil, was the position and the climate, that specilizated material was necessary to built the drill station and so exploit the oil. This mean that will cost a lot of money and time rebuild the various station, loan or not loan by the EDA or anybody else...and tell me why the EDA/EEC want to play hardball? Just for the evil? Honestly, it's not my fault if rebuild things is much much more difficult than destroy them.
- I repeat, it's very probable that European money will be principally used in east europe, UK, Iberian penisula and USA due to the need to rebuild such nations, not for some evil and 'illegal protectionist' plan (please insert evil laugh) and what other nations?
- for the South American nations, the creation of Mercosur and other regional organization, is to have more leverage against the economic and political influence of the USA, so if we add that New York has done some action that are not very nice to the neutrals and the historical relations between this nation, plus the fact that postwar, USA capacity will be diminished due to the loss and the need of reconstruction; i merely point out that the possibility that the entire process of creation of such organization will be accelerated...sure it will be probably not a very antagonistic relations, just an union to make the USA think twice before meddling even for the more trivial fact or at least having a more fair deal.
- If the URSS don't attack western Europe but is forced to retreat from NA and great part of China...i doubt that the new leaderships will be too hostile with the EDA/EEC due to them having ton of other problems, like the economy that tank, an army gutted, city destroyed, a restless population and in general East Europe on the verge of rebellion, even because if they want rebuild the URSS not only they will stop to send money but will also step up in the economic exploatation of the satellite nations. For Europe, is the current state of mobilization a problem? Sure, but once the hostilities stop things will go back to normal (even because neither the communist can maintain this level of mobilization for long...and the economic damage will be worse), regarding the defense budget, well the current level will be probably kept (has never been a crippling one and we will have always spent less in % than the USA or the UK) and saving can be achieved with a more rational procurament between the various nations, getting more for less
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Post by lukedalton on Nov 24, 2018 21:31:36 GMT
Oh and regarding the Rust Belt, her first and biggest enemy has never been Mexico or China, no...has been the South of the USA, it's there that many of the industries had relocated due to people taking a lot less money, not unionizing and having, let's say less 'radical and oppressive' safety rules (sound familiar). Sure globalization had made easier to go to other nations (and India can be the ITTL China) but before that this kind of movement between more developed zone and less developed was pretty common...so no, the days of the Rust belt are numbered, maybe the war will give her some more years but unless there is a radical change regarding corporate control, the sentence is just delayed
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Dan
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Post by Dan on Nov 25, 2018 8:13:10 GMT
Hopefully the warnings will have come in time, while there will be casualties, these are inevitable, hopefully it's mostly material not human casualties. Trucks, Land Rovers, even tanks are easy enough to replace. Personnel, less so.
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stevep
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Post by stevep on Nov 25, 2018 11:22:55 GMT
No actually I've been thinking of the usual assumptions you and Eurowatch have of the EU or in TTL whatever political bloc the EDA becomes, of being control freaks and seeking to dominate everybody and the suggestions that the allies will be dependent on them because if the allies don't do what the 'EU' wants they will deny funds for reconstruction. One of you was even talking about France blocking the UK from whatever closed economic and military union would replace the EEC, which hardly sounds like a friendly act.
Exactly my point. Its relative position is greater than it was pre-war. As such it doesn't need to replace losses in the foreseeable future. The EDA can't threaten it because even if it desires an arms race it doesn't have the capacity to do so.
Actually wrong. Her policies to strip assets and reduce competition and economic opportunities are the major reason for the relative British economic decline in the recent decades. This might also change now especially since the surviving 'Wets' are likely to be strengthened. Also it would probably take less time to restore the oil rigs than you hope. Given that there is likely to be a shortage of oil prices are likely to be high and there is also the possibility of getting loans for reconstruction on the basis of those reserves even while their in the seabed. There will be a need for a lot of reconstruction and if the EDA play hard-ball with harsh conditions then it will take longer but it can still be done. This of course assumes that the EDA is in a condition to make sure loans/grants which is still to be seen.
That's assuming the EDA is willing to do that on non-commercial terms. And again that its in a position to do so. Even without and with the sometimes openly illegal protectionist polices employed during this period the EDA will still but a lot from Japan simply because its the most efficient producer in the world. If they don't plenty of other nations will be.
Yes they won't like the bullying but then to a degree their used to it and the US has won, which means a lot. Plus what options do they have? They will continue to trade with other powers but be economically and politically heavily influenced by the US and very likely continue to squabble among themselves.
As I have mentioned before you and eurowatch have assumed that because so far the TL has been a wank for the EDA its going to continue to do so. Very far from the case. They could still be attacked in which case they might end up in a worse condition that the US, let alone Britain. If they attack the Soviets they could find a nuclear response. If they don't attack and as seems very likely a new leadership in Moscow sees sense then they could be left fairly isolated and facing a continued Soviet empire, including all of eastern Europe and without being able to rely on allied support. Which would mean they would need to maintain something like the current defense spending/military commitments or higher which would be a serious economic problem.
I will stop answering after that because as usual there is the risk to hijack the thread.
- Stevep, can you point where i said that the EDA/EEC/my grandma in a ferrari/whatever will dominate everybody being a control freaks and seem to enstablish the millenial reich? I merely said that while there will be resentment in UK (and USA), at this stage with the western european economies being relatevely untouched (at the moment), post-war nor London and neither Washington have the mean to refuse to commerce with them, wage some trade war or being too choosy over the origin of the financial aid. Sure they will probably prefer not, but usually nation are very pragmatic in this situation and till the worst is past they will not press much this factor. If for you this is the Juggernaut of the evil european empire (tm) wanting to take control of everyone...well it's another situation.
It was partly the assumption that I think all three of us are holding that it will end up like a mini EU - albeit with desires to be an even greater one. Which is heavily centralised and ignoring the fears and desires of many of its subjects, hence the mess its in. Partly also Eurowatch's comment on p166 - unfortunately I can't see a post count facility but he says "Tough a combination of French snootyness and Thatcher's stubbornes, Britain will not be allowed to join until years later but like the rest of the Western world it will be heavily reliant on European money for rebuilding. " - which I assume while initially talking about the EDA he's assuming it transforms into a proto national state like the EU is being driven towards. Mind you this is where he's assuming a EDA attack on eastern Europe which isn't promptly nuked and the annexation of the Kallingrad enclave.
That's the point your missing. With the Soviet navy largely destroyed, even if the EDA desires to be a possible adversary its a lot weaker in comparison to the weaker USN than the Soviet navy was so in relative terms USN strength is increased.
Again I point to the assumption above that it will develop like the EU, only possibly even faster becasuse the wrong lessons will be learnt from escaping the conflict and because countries like Britain will not want to be included. Nor under those circumstances would most of eastern Europe.
You can ignore history as much as you like. The EEC/EU has always been heavily protectionist, hence a lot of the problems with a more internationalist Britain, and it or member states have often broken even its rules.
Regional groups are likely but the orginal suggestion that it would take a lot of US resources to secure domination of S America is inaccurate.
Unclear what you talking about here as the 2nd half is rather vague. Who are the they, the Soviets or your EU? I'm actually talking about the high probability that the Warsaw Pact will still exist and will maintain substantial forces.
Again exactly my point. Normal is with a large WP force across the IGB [Inner German Border]. It may be a little smaller than before because of the costs of the war but then their not going to have to worry about China for quite a while so it may not. However the EDA, especially since I think we're both assuming it will seek to go its own way, rather than try and make up with NATO, will be a lot weaker than before, not to mention the minimal nuclear forces available to it. As such while it might not be the full scale moblisiation level currently in place the EDA is going to have to maintain substantially larger forces than it did before the war, which will be a substantial burden. Hence the % GDP spent on defence, while it probably won't go up to US levels will increase. Plus I suspect that by a "more rational procurament between the various nations" you mean Bonn and Paris, possibly with support from Rome will seek to impose a common EDA weapons fit - if not an actual national EDA army - on the other members states and seek to exclude kit from other nations. Apart from the fact this will be something a lot of the other nations will be unhappy with this it makes it pretty certain that Sweden and Spain [among others] won't want to touch it with a barge pole.
Anyway agree that we agree to disagree here rather than take over the thread again.
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sandyman
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Post by sandyman on Nov 25, 2018 14:15:09 GMT
Guys whilst debate is good we must remember it’s the authors story and always will be.
Love the update hopefully the warnings of incoming will save some lives. For some who have seen an attack like this is scary very scary.
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lordroel
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Post by lordroel on Nov 25, 2018 14:29:45 GMT
Anyway agree that we agree to disagree here rather than take over the thread again.
Guys whilst debate is good we must remember it’s the authors story and always will be. Agree, shall we just enjoy James great timeline and keep current politics out of it as much as possible , war is already bloody enough with only fighting going on.
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James G
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Post by James G on Nov 25, 2018 16:38:09 GMT
Yeah, the Rust Belt is gonna be a big winner here postwar, with no Mexico or China competing with it and companies moving jobs there (it also helps that it's untouched by the war)... There will be a boom, a big one. Whether it will be forever is debateable though. The war has been very far away indeed.
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James G
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Post by James G on Nov 25, 2018 16:43:22 GMT
Ouch that last bit was nasty for the BC forces. Hopefully the Soviets are wrong about the level of destruction their caused. Otherwise looking like the Soviet position in N America is rolling ever closer to destruction and defeat, possibly with a fairly rapid collapse. It was a targeted attack and they think they've done well there. Elsewhere though, worrying things for them are going on as the Americans keep on edging forward slowly. Oh and regarding the Rust Belt, her first and biggest enemy has never been Mexico or China, no...has been the South of the USA, it's there that many of the industries had relocated due to people taking a lot less money, not unionizing and having, let's say less 'radical and oppressive' safety rules (sound familiar). Sure globalization had made easier to go to other nations (and India can be the ITTL China) but before that this kind of movement between more developed zone and less developed was pretty common...so no, the days of the Rust belt are numbered, maybe the war will give her some more years but unless there is a radical change regarding corporate control, the sentence is just delayed That is a good point indeed. Hopefully the warnings will have come in time, while there will be casualties, these are inevitable, hopefully it's mostly material not human casualties. Trucks, Land Rovers, even tanks are easy enough to replace. Personnel, less so. Warning came as the panic was over a possible nuke attack. So people got down and scrambled for cover. Thermobarics are 'good' at getting those under cover though. Guys whilst debate is good we must remember it’s the authors story and always will be. Love the update hopefully the warnings of incoming will save some lives. For some who have seen an attack like this is scary very scary. Thanks. Yep, everything I've seen on big thermobarics makes it look like a very bad place to be. Agree, shall we just enjoy James great timeline and keep current politics out of it as much as possible , war is already bloody enough with only fighting going on. I agree. More fighting is going on.
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James G
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Post by James G on Nov 25, 2018 16:44:36 GMT
(293)
February 1985: The Texan High Plains
Up on the Texan High Plains, where Amarillo and Lubbock were, Nicaraguan forces there began February in a bad way and just about holding back the Americans. Within a week, the Nicaraguan Second Army would be no more. The Soviets couldn’t stop the annihilation of their supposed allies. The Americans would get as far south as Lubbock and win themselves a victory on the scale of Denver yet one with far less outside attention. The loss of the Nicaraguans would fade into the background though.
The US XVIII Corps moved down from Plainview and towards Lubbock early in the month. The city itself wasn’t their goal but rather the transportation infrastructure around it with the road, rail and air connections. Soviet orders pushed the Nicaraguans to make another stand while they rearranged their own forces to bring the Americans to a final stop closer to Lubbock yet there was too much faith put in the Nicaraguans. First the 56th Cavalry Brigade cut through them and then the 101st Air Assault Infantry Division followed those Texans out front. The Nicaraguans were broken up into little pieces very quickly and even at that stage, there was Soviet belief that they would be able to delay the Americans when making individual fights, hopefully managing to shut the door behind the Americans. That wasn’t to be. Nicaraguan units folded easily when cut off. The Americans would be slowed somewhat, but only by the sheer amount of POWs they would have to deal with. Infighting among the different nationalities involved within the Second Army – only about sixty per cent of the men were Nicaraguans; the rest Hondurans and Salvadorans – occurred once again when they surrendered. There had been an American propaganda effort ahead of the fight to sew division yet this only became out in the open once there had come those surrenders. Military police units were forced to back away and let the enemy kill each other. This was for their own safety, their reports higher up the chain of command said, though down on the ground the view was very different. It was a case of sitting back and watching the enemy kill each other with glee at a lower level of command.
Soviet paratroopers from the 106th Guards Airborne Division were around Lubbock and they were joined by Bulgarian paratroopers as well. These men came here light and without any heavy forces in immediate support. A regiment of Soviet tanks had been supposed to join them yet they had been sent to avert disaster in Arizona: it was a long trip for them across to south-eastern Arizona but they got there in the end. Those sent to Lubbock didn’t give a damn about Arizona. Their only concern was the approaching enemy and reconnaissance aircraft spotting a further incoming American heavy force to join with the 56th Brigade. Intelligence identified it as one of the two brigades serving with the 1st Infantry Division. This left only a tiny American force to the north, facing what few Nicaraguans were left between Amarillo and New Mexico, yet that couldn’t be exploited at all at this time. To replace those missing Soviet tanks, there had been a Bulgarian brigade meant to come to Lubbock. The Soviets rated them and the paratroopers already in Lubbock as good troops, very good in fact, though they would rather have had their own men here when faced with oncoming Americans. The paratroopers would have to hold on until the Bulgarians got to them.
American aircraft and helicopters struck ahead of their advancing troops though didn’t have an easy time of it. There was a lot of defensive fire directed towards them and the Soviets – joined by Cuban aircraft too – fought them in the skies. Neither side could control the skies nor make a decisive input to the ground fight. Meanwhile, the XVIII Corps advanced onwards and reached the Soviets outside of Lubbock before the Bulgarians showed up. They had won the race… yet the Bulgarians weren’t that far off, just a day away. Lubbock’s airport, which was a major transport hub for the Soviets and where they had flown in all those men to fight here, was fought over with the 56th Brigade seizing it at first yet then hit with a fierce Soviet counterattack. It was to the airport where the Bulgarian 9th Tank Brigade went and they forced the Texans to withdraw. There was a belief that those men from the 1st Infantry would be present as well yet the intelligence here was faulty. The Americans were playing radio games with much deception used in what they were up to. More than that, they were splitting their forces and that wasn’t what the Soviets believed they would do. The detached heavy brigade showed up to the west where the Bulgarians had their paratroopers, over at Reese AFB. Unlike the Soviet Airborne who had their many BMD light armoured vehicles, the Bulgarian 68th Parachute Reconnaissance Regiment had no armoured vehicles: they were often called the ‘Balkan Spetsnaz’ because that accurately summed them up. Sniping, raiding, patrolling… that was what they would good for and their deployment was on the flank meant to secure it. The Americans threw tanks, armoured infantry and artillery at them in a full-scale assault though to grab the airbase. The Soviets tried to reach them in time because they weren’t about to abandon them like they had done to the Nicaraguans, yet they wouldn’t extricate themselves nor the 9th Tank Brigade from the bigger fight when the 101st Air Assault showed up behind the 56th Brigade. Reese fell into American hands and the Bulgarians there were either killed or scattered.
There was no let up in the American attack. The XVIII Corps kept on going. From the airbase, they made an advance going around Lubbock anti-clockwise. From the airport, they moved forward in a clockwise direction. They were gobbling up Lubbock from the outside and aiming to shut the door behind those inside. This would trap the Soviets and the Bulgarians. The time to make a decision for the Soviets on what to do was alarmingly short. In theory, the Nicaraguan Second Army was the higher headquarters for the Texan High Plains though with the Nicaraguans lost, the Soviet Airborne divisional commander took charge of his men, the Bulgarian tankers and a mixed assortment of various smaller support units in the service of many nations. Withdraw now, came the order, with utmost haste. A KGB colonel attempted to avert this with the reasoning that there had been no higher permission. He was ignored and told that he would be left behind if he chose to be. The man elected to retreat with the withdrawing troops though this would be far from the end of the matter. The fastest way out of Lubbock would be to go southeast and towards the high ground there: the winding course of the Yellow House Canyon would provide an excellent buffer against the stronger American forces moving clockwise. Such a thing would open up the way for the Americans to go further south though, deep into West Texas. The 106th Guards’ commander knew he’d be in trouble for the retreat he ordered but it would be worse if he did that. Going southwest and running away was just that; moving south and making a stand over better terrain there would be (in his eyes) a valid military action. Therefore, it was to the south they went. The Bulgarians covered the rear and, while hasty, the retreat was done with much success. Few men were left behind. A lot of equipment, stores and infrastructure was left intact though, all for the Americans to use. The Soviets and Bulgarians established their blocking positions and brought the Americans to a halt almost a dozen miles south of Lubbock. They’d got away from a doomed fight. That KGB colonel among them reported the unauthorised action and pointed to what had been left in Lubbock. He smiled when he discovered that the Soviet Airborne general was to be executed for ‘cowardice in the face of the enemy’ yet that smirk disappeared when he himself was arrested, faced court-martial and was taken to be shot (a process which took ten minutes in total) because he too was deemed a coward. Why did he go along with the retreat and not stay behind to ensure the destruction of all of that that was left behind? He never got the chance to answer that question.
The XVIII Corps couldn’t go no further than the Soviet’s newly-established positions, a line stretching east-west past Lubbock. The ground chosen for those was anchored among high ground either side and the middle was full of some further difficult patches of terrain which was of good use to a defender. With time, once fire support was brought up and a major assault could commence, this would be taken on. Not for now though. The 56th Brigade’s commander wanted to keep on going but the initial engagements his men met when reaching the defensive line made the corps commander realise that this was impossible. The Bulgarians fought Texan national guardsmen once again and this time the Soviets got some aircraft into play to make a difference. While it was late, it did its job. A pause was ordered. More than thought possible had been done already and the XVIII Corps was overstretched. He feared that the Soviets would suddenly get more reinforcements and come back north while his men were spread out all over the place. This was no time to be foolish and lose his corps.
Inside Lubbock, the treasure trove that the Soviets were angry that was left behind wasn’t considered such by the Americans. Yes, they got hold of a lot of stores and equipment and there had been no major demolitions done but it was hardly anything to get really excited about. An intelligence leak said that the KGB had shot the paratroopers’ commander for what he left behind. There was a hunt on for that ‘what’ was because nothing jumped out at the Americans as being worth a great deal. The stocks of ammunition and weaponry encountered weren’t too much. Other stores were looked upon with disdain. They fed their soldiers this? This was their medical equipment? This was their vehicle maintenance set-up? Reese AFB had been taken near intact though the airport was smashed to pieces after being directly fought over. Much of the road and rail links around Lubbock were damaged from American air attacks before the battle and almost nothing had been done to repair that bomb damage. Prisoners were taken from the men who didn’t get out but none of them could be considered valuable to anyone. The fuss that the Soviets made was confusing because they had managed to get the majority of their forces out. In American eyes, losing their men would have been far worse than what they got their hands upon.
Winning a victory like they had and liberating American soil was what the Americans regarded as a prize. There were civilians in Lubbock who were freed though not too many of them. So many of the small city’s population had left long ago before it was lost and those who had stayed behind – for various reasons – had seen the Nicaraguans ‘pacify’ them. After Lubbock, the XVIII Corps received the orders to hold onto what they had (as the corps’ commander had already done) and wait pending his own reinforcement. Elements of the Army of the United States were being attached to the XVIII Corps, new units coming to an end of their training and being equipped. There were artillery, aviation, engineering and support units aplenty. Of combat troops, the XVIII Corps received a new division. This was the 11th Air Assault Infantry. When it came time to go south again, these new volunteer recruits and conscripts would see their first taste of battle when the war moved to West Texas.
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stevep
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Post by stevep on Nov 25, 2018 18:07:44 GMT
Yeah, the Rust Belt is gonna be a big winner here postwar, with no Mexico or China competing with it and companies moving jobs there (it also helps that it's untouched by the war)... There will be a boom, a big one. Whether it will be forever is debateable though. The war has been very far away indeed.
Actually no, no boom lasts forever. How long a 'rust-belt' revival will last is another point as the future of this world, whatever happens in the rest of the war and the following peace, are going to be hugely different on many ways.
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stevep
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Post by stevep on Nov 25, 2018 18:22:27 GMT
James Well I detect a pattern. The Soviets find a competent commander so they shoot him.
Reading about the desperate scrambling I was reminded of the comedy song Three_Wheels_on_My_Wagon, which seemed most appropriate as the wheels are definitely coming off the Soviet position in N America and elsewhere.
Steve
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Dan
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Post by Dan on Nov 25, 2018 20:56:18 GMT
Someone is going to put two and two together soon.
The stores were a big deal to the Soviets, big enough to shoot the senior military and KGB officers present. The Americans looked at them as being nothing much.
The reason is simple, they're a sign of how little the Soviets are running on now. This needs to be fed back up the chain fast and anti supply efforts doubled.
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arrowiv
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Post by arrowiv on Nov 25, 2018 21:07:49 GMT
I wonder what is happening on the domestic political front in Central American especially Nicaragua and Guatemala.
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stevep
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Post by stevep on Nov 25, 2018 21:47:13 GMT
There will be a boom, a big one. Whether it will be forever is debateable though. The war has been very far away indeed.
Actually no, no boom lasts forever. How long a 'rust-belt' revival will last is another point as the future of this world, whatever happens in the rest of the war and the following peace, are going to be hugely different on many ways.
That will be a factor but also possibly the Soviets ran a much leaner war machine than the west while the US tends to run a more lavish one. They tended to make their equipment idiot proof for masses of relatively short term conscripts and simply didn't have the tech base for a lot of more sophisticated items.
Another factor as well is that the commander withdrew to a more defensive position and successfully held it. If they don't emphasis the importance of the stores and supplies lost then killing him looks petty and counter-productive, which it is but they don't want to admit that.
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