simpleton
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Post by simpleton on Oct 31, 2017 17:46:16 GMT
After the rapid invasion of Mexico, the US president realizes that the experienced American troops can easily seize huge territories in the Americas and beyond, which are even more weakly defended, more isolated and less populated than Mexico. He addresses Congress immediately after seizing Mexico City and before the US purchases only Texas, California, etc,:
After one of the most successful invasions in history, through which our troops have secured a huge territory, to abandon Mexico to an incompetent and corrupt dictator is to waste a golden opportunity.
The Mexican army was much stronger than the armies of Nicaragua, Uruguay, Argentina, Chile, Peru, etc, and our troops and navy have gained valuable experience, so they are better than when they first invaded Mexico.
The huge Pacific coast and the South Atlantic coast of the Americas are sparsely populated and very valuable, yet it has no railrods and few cities and towns.
The US must make Mexico a territory, develop it and invade Nicaragua, in order to build railroad lines across the Isthmuses of Nicaragua and Tehuantepec (Mexico) and from Veracruz to Mexico City. The Veracruz Mexico City RR line will allow rapid development of our Mexican territory. The isthmuses RR lines will allow fast and efficient transportation for over a million American, Canadian, Irish and European settlers and American troops and sailors and large quantities of steel, supplies, etc, to the Pacific. This will enable the rapid settlement of California and the Mexican Pacific coast, the building of shipyards and ships in the Pacific, invasion and development of Chile, Peru, Hawaii, etc, construction of RR lines from Acapulco to Puebla, from San Francisco to Sacramento, from Valparaiso to Santiago, from Lima and Mollendo to the Peruvian interior, etc,
While we build the isthmuses RR lines, our troops can rapidly invade Montevideo and Buenos Aires, so that RR lines can be built behind the advancing troops to supply and reinforce them and to transport the wounded or sick and the prisoners back to the ports. As soon as the short Nicaragua RR is finished, we can invade Chile and Peru. Once these areas are under our control, developed by RR lines and settled, we can expand into landlocked Bolivia and Paraguay, acquiring huge territories with massive river systems, rich deposits of guano, minerals, etc,
From Montevideo our troops can easily secure Boer South Africa, a huge territory ruled by tens of thousands of independent Dutch settlers, without a standing army.
If we can relocate a million settlers in the Pacific, we can easily secure by purchase or invasion Hawaii, Alaska, British Columbia, Guam, the Philippines, Okinawa, Formosa, etc, which will secure the Pacific for the US.
On the other hand, if we abandon Mexico, we shall have a very long border to the South, through which any European power allied with Mexico or invading weak Mexico can invade the US. American, Canadian and Europeans migrating to California, British Columbia, Arizona, the Mexican Pacific Coast, Alaska, etc, will have a very long, costly and dangerous journey, so settlement will be much slower than simply crossing Tehuantepec on a train in hours and sailing to California, Acapulco, British Columbia, etc,
I shall also use this occassion to acquaint Congress with an important fact: while, the richer, larger, more populous British French, Russian, Ottoman and Chinese empires, the US, Brazil, etc, all still use obsolete muskets. small and relatively poor, but wise Prussia has been producing and arming its troops for several years with a breech-loading, rapid fire rifle (over 10 rounds per minute), which uses paper cartridges and can be operated from the prone position and is much more accurate than our muskets, so it can decimate our troops, which can fire a few rounds per minute standing up (highly visible, large targets) with poor accuracy even at 60 yards. The US must secure an alliance with Prussia to expand together, in order for the US to acquire the design, knowhow, tooling, etc, to build large numbers of the Dreyse rifle in the US, which will make our armed forces even more formidable and successful. We must also secure Prussian officers to train our officers and men, so that the US can develop the best army in the world, with Prussian armament, strategy and tactics and eventually the size of the Russian army.
The choice is simply, the US can either abandon Mexico, dooming it to poverty and the US to guarding a long border with muskets and forcing settler to undergo an ordeal to reach the Pacific coast or we can seize the golden opportunity to develop and settle all of Latin America, Hawaii, British Columbia, South Africa, etc, and arm our excellent army with an excellent rifle, so we can forge unprecedented expansion, prosperity, trade, naval and army strength.
Thank You for your attention.
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simpleton
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Post by simpleton on Oct 31, 2017 23:44:13 GMT
Timeline:
in 1847 the US occupies most of Mexico and invades Nicaragua. It starts construction of RR lines across the Isthmuses of Tehuantepec and Nicaragua and from Vercacruz to Mexico City. The US signs an alliance with Prussia to build the Dreyse rifle in the US and to expand together.
In 1848 the US invades Montevideo and Buenos Aires. It starts constructing RR lines from Buenos aires, to supply the advancing troops.
In 1849 the Nicaragua RR is finished. Materials and men arrive from Nicaragua in the Pacific coast of Tehuantepec, to start construction from that end and in Acapulco to start construction of a line to Puebla, to link with the Veracruz-Mexico city Line. The US invades Valparaiso and Hawaii with men, materiel and supplies transported through Nicaragua and it invades Boer South Africa from Montevideo. Hawaii is overcrowded, so the US relocates 30,000 young Hawaiians to California, Pacific Mexico to build railroads, shipyards, etc, and to settle the sparsely populated areas. Thousands of American, Canadian and European settlers arrive in the Pacific coast. Favorable winds and currents allow rapid transit betweenMontevideo and South Africa. Thousands of immigrants arrive in South Africa to build RR, shipyards, etc, When gold is found in California, traffic increases so much across Nicaragua, that trains operate all day and a second track is built. The Dreyse rifle proves extremely helpful in all invasions and occupied territories. Settlers can also buy them, so production has to be rapidly increased. 6 factories are built in the US, 1 in Mexico, another one in Montevideo, another one in South Africa and the last one in the PI.
In 1850 the US helps Prussia to invade Cuba, Puerto Rico and Santo Domingo. The Tehuantepec RR is finished just in time to expedite migration to California's goldfields, Hawaii and Pacific Mexico. The US invades and settles Peru through Nicaragua. It also invades Gaun, the Philippines, Formosa and Okinawa.
In 1851 the US invades Angola, Mozambique, Cape verde, Macao and Portuguese Timor from weak Portugal. It also invades Thailand from Manchuria and it invades Korea and Manchuria from Okinawa (together with Prussian troops). It starts building RR lines, steelmills, shipyards, etc, in American Manchuria. Prussia keeps Korea and 1/4 of Manchuria.
In 1852 the US invades Cartagena (Colombia), Maracaibo (Venezuela), Recife, Sao Paolo and Rio. In the Pacific it invades Ecuador, Salvador, Guatemala, etc,
When war breaks out in Crimea in 1853, the US forms a secret coalition with Prussia, Russia, Austria, Romania and Persia against the Ottoman, British and French Empires and Sardinia-Piedmont.
In late 1853 US marines and army seize the Bosphorus and Istambul, bottling up large Ottoman, British, French and Sardinian forces in the Black Sea. Without supplies and reinforcements those forces have to surrender.
In 1854 US forces seize Ireland, Newfoundland, Noca Scotia, British Columbia, Capetown, Kenya, Alexandria, Jamaica, T&T, Bermuda, Bahamas, the Falklands, British Guiana, Belize and Ceylon. The USN and privateers capture or sink hundreds of French, Ottoman and British ships. The US invades Sardinia (whose army is in Crimea), Tunisia and Lebanon and takes control of the Mediterranean.
Prussia invades occupies Alsace Lorraine, Normandy, Amiens and Belgium.
Austria reinvades northern Italy.
Austria, Romania, Russia and Persia (which has been armed by the other members of the coalition) invade the Ottoman empire, which collapses in 3 months. 2 million Muslim Ottomans are relocated to build RR, ships, etc, in Colombia, Brazil, Peru, Angola, Africa, etc, the former Byzantine Empire is reclaimed by Christians.
Britain capitulates and cedes its colonies to the US (India, Australia, Tasmania, Canada, etc,). France capitulates and cedes some of its colonies to Prussia and some to the US.
In 1855 the US invades Curacao, Bonaire, Aruba, Suriname and the DEI. While Prussia invades Holland by land, the US seizes Rotterdam, AMsterdam, etc, along the coast. While Prussia invades Denmark by land, the US occupy Copenhagen, Aalborg, Iceland, the Faroe Islands, etc, on the coast and it closes the Baltic to Swedish shipping.
While Russia invades Norway and Sweden by land, the US occupies Oslo, Christiansand, Narvik, Bergen, Stockholm, Gottland, etc,
The US grants Russia free use of Norwegian ports, so Russiafinally has access to the Atlantic year around. Russia realizes they are untenable, so it cedes Alaska, Sakhalin and Kamchatka to the US.
In 1856 the US (with Indian, American, Masnchurian, Okinawan, Formosan and Filipino troops) and Prussia invade and share Japan from Korea, Manchuria and Okinawa. The RR line St. Louis-Denver is finished. It enables rapid settlement of the midwest.
In 1857, with Japanese, Indian, Thai & Filipino troops Prussia and the US invade China, which collapses after 3 months of catastrophically high Chinese casualties. They also invade Mongolia and Tibet.
In 1858 the US mass produces a much superior, repeating rifle, firing metal case cartridges. It also starts manufacturing light, 2" and 3" steel, breech loading, rifled cannon, firing metal case ammunition with high velocity, shells, which explode on contact. US steel industry is producing the huge quantites required for millions of RR miles, thousands of steel ships, bridges, buildings, factories, tools, machinery, etc, in huge mills in India, Manchuria, South Africa, Canada, the US, Brazil, etc,
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lordroel
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Post by lordroel on Nov 1, 2017 4:42:22 GMT
Timeline: in 1847 the US occupies most of Mexico and invades Nicaragua. It starts construction of RR lines across the Isthmuses of Tehuantepec and Nicaragua and from Vercacruz to Mexico City. The US signs an alliance with Prussia to build the Dreyse rifle in the US and to expand together. In 1848 the US invades Montevideo and Buenos Aires. It starts constructing RR lines from Buenos aires, to supply the advancing troops. In 1849 the Nicaragua RR is finished. Materials and men arrive from Nicaragua in the Pacific coast of Tehuantepec, to start construction from that end and in Acapulco to start construction of a line to Puebla, to link with the Veracruz-Mexico city Line. The US invades Valparaiso and Hawaii with men, materiel and supplies transported through Nicaragua and it invades Boer South Africa from Montevideo. Hawaii is overcrowded, so the US relocates 30,000 young Hawaiians to California, Pacific Mexico to build railroads, shipyards, etc, and to settle the sparsely populated areas. Thousands of American, Canadian and European settlers arrive in the Pacific coast. Favorable winds and currents allow rapid transit betweenMontevideo and South Africa. Thousands of immigrants arrive in South Africa to build RR, shipyards, etc, When gold is found in California, traffic increases so much across Nicaragua, that trains operate all day and a second track is built. The Dreyse rifle proves extremely helpful in all invasions and occupied territories. Settlers can also buy them, so production has to be rapidly increased. 6 factories are built in the US, 1 in Mexico, another one in Montevideo, another one in South Africa and the last one in the PI. In 1850 the US helps Prussia to invade Cuba, Puerto Rico and Santo Domingo. The Tehuantepec RR is finished just in time to expedite migration to California's goldfields, Hawaii and Pacific Mexico. The US invades and settles Peru through Nicaragua. It also invades Gaun, the Philippines, Formosa and Okinawa. In 1851 the US invades Angola, Mozambique, Cape verde, Macao and Portuguese Timor from weak Portugal. It also invades Thailand from Manchuria and it invades Korea and Manchuria from Okinawa (together with Prussian troops). It starts building RR lines, steelmills, shipyards, etc, in American Manchuria. Prussia keeps Korea and 1/4 of Manchuria. In 1852 the US invades Cartagena (Colombia), Maracaibo (Venezuela), Recife, Sao Paolo and Rio. In the Pacific it invades Ecuador, Salvador, Guatemala, etc, When war breaks out in Crimea in 1853, the US forms a secret coalition with Prussia, Russia, Austria, Romania and Persia against the Ottoman, British and French Empires and Sardinia-Piedmont. In late 1853 US marines and army seize the Bosphorus and Istambul, bottling up large Ottoman, British, French and Sardinian forces in the Black Sea. Without supplies and reinforcements those forces have to surrender. In 1854 US forces seize Ireland, Newfoundland, Noca Scotia, British Columbia, Capetown, Kenya, Alexandria, Jamaica, T&T, Bermuda, Bahamas, the Falklands, British Guiana, Belize and Ceylon. The USN and privateers capture or sink hundreds of French, Ottoman and British ships. The US invades Sardinia (whose army is in Crimea), Tunisia and Lebanon and takes control of the Mediterranean. Prussia invades occupies Alsace Lorraine, Normandy, Amiens and Belgium. Austria reinvades northern Italy. Austria, Romania, Russia and Persia (which has been armed by the other members of the coalition) invade the Ottoman empire, which collapses in 3 months. 2 million Muslim Ottomans are relocated to build RR, ships, etc, in Colombia, Brazil, Peru, Angola, Africa, etc, the former Byzantine Empire is reclaimed by Christians. Britain capitulates and cedes its colonies to the US (India, Australia, Tasmania, Canada, etc,). France capitulates and cedes some of its colonies to Prussia and some to the US. In 1855 the US invades Curacao, Bonaire, Aruba, Suriname and the DEI. While Prussia invades Holland by land, the US seizes Rotterdam, AMsterdam, etc, along the coast. While Prussia invades Denmark by land, the US occupy Copenhagen, Aalborg, Iceland, the Faroe Islands, etc, on the coast and it closes the Baltic to Swedish shipping. While Russia invades Norway and Sweden by land, the US occupies Oslo, Christiansand, Narvik, Bergen, Stockholm, Gottland, etc, The US grants Russia free use of Norwegian ports, so Russiafinally has access to the Atlantic year around. Russia realizes they are untenable, so it cedes Alaska, Sakhalin and Kamchatka to the US. In 1856 the US (with Indian, American, Masnchurian, Okinawan, Formosan and Filipino troops) and Prussia invade and share Japan from Korea, Manchuria and Okinawa. The RR line St. Louis-Denver is finished. It enables rapid settlement of the midwest. In 1857, with Japanese, Indian, Thai & Filipino troops Prussia and the US invade China, which collapses after 3 months of catastrophically high Chinese casualties. They also invade Mongolia and Tibet. In 1858 the US mass produces a much superior, repeating rifle, firing metal case cartridges. It also starts manufacturing light, 2" and 3" steel, breech loading, rifled cannon, firing metal case ammunition with high velocity, shells, which explode on contact. US steel industry is producing the huge quantites required for millions of RR miles, thousands of steel ships, bridges, buildings, factories, tools, machinery, etc, in huge mills in India, Manchuria, South Africa, Canada, the US, Brazil, etc, Did this butterfly away the civil war. |
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Post by eurowatch on Nov 1, 2017 10:31:50 GMT
Timeline: in 1847 the US occupies most of Mexico and invades Nicaragua. It starts construction of RR lines across the Isthmuses of Tehuantepec and Nicaragua and from Vercacruz to Mexico City. The US signs an alliance with Prussia to build the Dreyse rifle in the US and to expand together. In 1848 the US invades Montevideo and Buenos Aires. It starts constructing RR lines from Buenos aires, to supply the advancing troops. In 1849 the Nicaragua RR is finished. Materials and men arrive from Nicaragua in the Pacific coast of Tehuantepec, to start construction from that end and in Acapulco to start construction of a line to Puebla, to link with the Veracruz-Mexico city Line. The US invades Valparaiso and Hawaii with men, materiel and supplies transported through Nicaragua and it invades Boer South Africa from Montevideo. Hawaii is overcrowded, so the US relocates 30,000 young Hawaiians to California, Pacific Mexico to build railroads, shipyards, etc, and to settle the sparsely populated areas. Thousands of American, Canadian and European settlers arrive in the Pacific coast. Favorable winds and currents allow rapid transit betweenMontevideo and South Africa. Thousands of immigrants arrive in South Africa to build RR, shipyards, etc, When gold is found in California, traffic increases so much across Nicaragua, that trains operate all day and a second track is built. The Dreyse rifle proves extremely helpful in all invasions and occupied territories. Settlers can also buy them, so production has to be rapidly increased. 6 factories are built in the US, 1 in Mexico, another one in Montevideo, another one in South Africa and the last one in the PI. In 1850 the US helps Prussia to invade Cuba, Puerto Rico and Santo Domingo. The Tehuantepec RR is finished just in time to expedite migration to California's goldfields, Hawaii and Pacific Mexico. The US invades and settles Peru through Nicaragua. It also invades Gaun, the Philippines, Formosa and Okinawa. In 1851 the US invades Angola, Mozambique, Cape verde, Macao and Portuguese Timor from weak Portugal. It also invades Thailand from Manchuria and it invades Korea and Manchuria from Okinawa (together with Prussian troops). It starts building RR lines, steelmills, shipyards, etc, in American Manchuria. Prussia keeps Korea and 1/4 of Manchuria. In 1852 the US invades Cartagena (Colombia), Maracaibo (Venezuela), Recife, Sao Paolo and Rio. In the Pacific it invades Ecuador, Salvador, Guatemala, etc, When war breaks out in Crimea in 1853, the US forms a secret coalition with Prussia, Russia, Austria, Romania and Persia against the Ottoman, British and French Empires and Sardinia-Piedmont. In late 1853 US marines and army seize the Bosphorus and Istambul, bottling up large Ottoman, British, French and Sardinian forces in the Black Sea. Without supplies and reinforcements those forces have to surrender. In 1854 US forces seize Ireland, Newfoundland, Noca Scotia, British Columbia, Capetown, Kenya, Alexandria, Jamaica, T&T, Bermuda, Bahamas, the Falklands, British Guiana, Belize and Ceylon. The USN and privateers capture or sink hundreds of French, Ottoman and British ships. The US invades Sardinia (whose army is in Crimea), Tunisia and Lebanon and takes control of the Mediterranean. Prussia invades occupies Alsace Lorraine, Normandy, Amiens and Belgium. Austria reinvades northern Italy. Austria, Romania, Russia and Persia (which has been armed by the other members of the coalition) invade the Ottoman empire, which collapses in 3 months. 2 million Muslim Ottomans are relocated to build RR, ships, etc, in Colombia, Brazil, Peru, Angola, Africa, etc, the former Byzantine Empire is reclaimed by Christians. Britain capitulates and cedes its colonies to the US (India, Australia, Tasmania, Canada, etc,). France capitulates and cedes some of its colonies to Prussia and some to the US. In 1855 the US invades Curacao, Bonaire, Aruba, Suriname and the DEI. While Prussia invades Holland by land, the US seizes Rotterdam, AMsterdam, etc, along the coast. While Prussia invades Denmark by land, the US occupy Copenhagen, Aalborg, Iceland, the Faroe Islands, etc, on the coast and it closes the Baltic to Swedish shipping. While Russia invades Norway and Sweden by land, the US occupies Oslo, Christiansand, Narvik, Bergen, Stockholm, Gottland, etc, The US grants Russia free use of Norwegian ports, so Russiafinally has access to the Atlantic year around. Russia realizes they are untenable, so it cedes Alaska, Sakhalin and Kamchatka to the US. In 1856 the US (with Indian, American, Masnchurian, Okinawan, Formosan and Filipino troops) and Prussia invade and share Japan from Korea, Manchuria and Okinawa. The RR line St. Louis-Denver is finished. It enables rapid settlement of the midwest. In 1857, with Japanese, Indian, Thai & Filipino troops Prussia and the US invade China, which collapses after 3 months of catastrophically high Chinese casualties. They also invade Mongolia and Tibet. In 1858 the US mass produces a much superior, repeating rifle, firing metal case cartridges. It also starts manufacturing light, 2" and 3" steel, breech loading, rifled cannon, firing metal case ammunition with high velocity, shells, which explode on contact. US steel industry is producing the huge quantites required for millions of RR miles, thousands of steel ships, bridges, buildings, factories, tools, machinery, etc, in huge mills in India, Manchuria, South Africa, Canada, the US, Brazil, etc, What are logistics? Answer: Something not occuring here. |
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simpleton
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Post by simpleton on Nov 1, 2017 17:36:23 GMT
Yes, lordroel, the civil war never takes place. Instead of wasting the most successful campaign in American history, the US keeps momentum going for unprecedented expansion. The South is satisfied when slave-owning Brazil becomes a US territory.
The Nicaragua and Tehuantepec RR enable mass migration during the gold rush and occupation of Alaska much earlier, with its corresponding gold rush occurring as the California one wanes. The west is settled decades ahead, long before the extremely long transcontinental RR is finished (it is much easier to build the Nicaragua and Tehuantepec RR, than an extremely long one, across the most difficult Rockies).
eurowatch,
The incredible fact is that OTL the US managed to kill more Americans and devastate more American property than in any other war in history for no gains at all and it used the worst logistics in history to settle California, Washington State, Oregon, Alaska, Nevada, Arizona, Utah, Idaho, etc, in long decades, instead of years, forcing hundred's of thousands to undergo the ordeal of the Oregon trail, the Donner Party, the trip around South America, the crossing on mules or on foot of Nicaragua or Panama, etc, instead of simply building a RR across Nicaragua and Tehuantepec in the late 1840s, as ATL.
OTL, even the logistics to build the Transcontinental RR from California were quite absurd.
It is also incredible that the US never seized weak British Columbia (and actually all of Canada and Newfoundland), it annexed Hawaii after imprisoning its queen decades later than invading it ATL and it invaded Guam and the PI a half century later than ATL.
ATL the US is much more successful, only thanks to much more reasonable priorities and logistics (in contrast to absurd OTL logistics and priorities). It is also incredible that Britain seized Montevideo for 6 months with a few men, while the US never did (it did lose a half million men in the civil war, rather a few thousand seizing all of Latin America, etc,). Tiny Holland could manage the logistics to hold on to the DEI for centuries and Spain managed to hold on to the PI for centuries, while the US did not expand at all in the crucial half century between the Mexican-American and the Spanish-American wars.
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Post by eurowatch on Nov 1, 2017 17:45:03 GMT
Yes, lordroel, the civil war never takes place. Instead of wasting the most successful campaign in American history, the US keeps momentum going for unprecedented expansion. The South is satisfied when slave-owning Brazil becomes a US territory. The Nicaragua and Tehuantepec RR enable mass migration during the gold rush and occupation of Alaska much earlier, with its corresponding gold rush occurring as the California one wanes. The west is settled decades ahead, long before the ectremely long transcontinental RR is finished (it is much easier to build the Nicaragua and Tehuantepec RR, than an extremely long one, across the most difficult Rockies. eurowatch, The incredible fact is that OTL the US managed to kill more Americans and devastate more American property than in any other war in history for no gains at all and it used the worst logistics in history to settle California, Washington State, Oregon, Alaska, Nevada, Arizona, Utah, Idaho, etc, in long decades, instead of years, forcing hundred's of thousands to undergo the ordeal of the Oregon trail, the Donner Party, the trip around South America, the crossing on mules or on foot of Nicaragua or Panama, etc, instead of simply building a RR across Nicaragua and Tehuantepec in the late 1840s, as OTL. OTL, even the logistics to build the Transcontinental RR from California were quite absurd. It is also incredible that the US never seized weak British Columbia (and actually all of Canada and Newfoundland), it annexed Hawaii after imprisoning its queen decades later than invading it ATL and it invaded Guam and the PI a half century later than ATL. ATL the US is much more successful, only thanks to much more reasonable priorities and logistics (in contrast to absurd OTL logistics and priorities). It is also incredible that Britian seized Montivideo for 6 months with a few men, while the US never did (it did lose a half million men in the civil war, rather a few thousand seizing all of Latin America, etc,t Tiny Holland could manage the logistics to hold on to the DEI for centuries and Spain managed to hold on to the PI for centuries, while the US did not expand at all in the crucial half century between the Mexican-American and the Spanish-American wars. The reason the US never invaded Canada after 1812 is quite simple: they desired to stay freinds With Britain and invading the British empire would go against that purpose. They had also gotten their arses kicked the previous time they tried it. |
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simpleton
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Post by simpleton on Nov 1, 2017 23:56:01 GMT
The US was never friendly towars Britain, it critisized strongly the Crimean war, the opium wars, the Boer wars, the treatment in India, the help to the Confederacy, etc,
The US failed dismally in 1812, because it had a handfull of ships and the RN had 1,000 and because the US army and its leaders sucked (the critical fort fell without a fight, because it was notified of the declaration of war by mail, while British counterparts were rapidly informed by courriers), it was asenine to declare war on Britain and to invade Canada without a sea and a lake navy in 1812, instead of invading Mexico, Uruguay, etc, immersed in revolution, with Spain unable to respond.
In 1847 the US army and navy had performed spectacularly, they were led by much better generals and officers (including Lee, Grant, Longstrom, Johnston and other bright blokes, who acquired invaluable experience in Mexico and would easily defeat inexperienced and hesitating British officers, who performed dismally in Crimea in 1853-54, unlike the experienced and daring British officer from Napoleonic wars in 1812, another generation). Canada was still extremely weak (the population, industry, armed forces, etc, of the US had grown much faster), not to mention Newfoundland and British Colombia, which were hardly settled and independent from Canada. Britain simply could not respond in B.C. in time to an attack by even a small force from California.
Being affraid of failure, because you failed once is rather dumb, the loser's way. Analyzing why you failed and correcting your mistakes to ensure victory on the next attempt is the winner's way. The difference between the RN and USN was much smaller and shrinking in |847. With an expansionist policy, the US could easily outproduce the RN with its population, resources and long coasts in 1847.
Again, it is incredible that the US lost a shocking half million men plus tens of thousands of civilians (the only time in its history) in 4 years and billions of dollars in property and lost trade in 4 years for no gains at all, because South and North were not affraid of fighting each other's truly mighty armies, but were affraid of fighting ridiculous armies in Canada, Latin America, etc, even after defeating rapidly and with very few casualties arguably the strongest Latin American army in 1847, only to abandon the country and to stop expanding. No large, powerful nation would neglect invading larger, hardly populated territories along its borders in the 19th century, in order to start a civil war.
In 1847 the US had thousands of RR km, Latin America had zero. Much like Mexico lost the war in 1847 and Russia lost the Crimean war in 1854 for lack of trains, so would the rest of Latin America, Canada and Boer South Africa be completely unable to respond in time to an invasion in the late 1840s. Incredibly, poor, landlocked, selvatic and swampy Paraguay built the first 37 km RR in latin America in the late 1850.
Although Brazil had 9 million people and it was allied with Argentina and Uruguay against tiny Paraguay (half million people) in 1864, the triple alliance armies performed dismally against Paraguay, the war lasted until 1870. They would have been no match against Lee´s troops in the late 1840s. Brazilian and Argentine army performance during this war was worse than the red army's performance against Finland in 1939, which ended after a few months.
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lordroel
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Post by lordroel on Nov 2, 2017 16:18:36 GMT
Yes, lordroel, the civil war never takes place. Instead of wasting the most successful campaign in American history, the US keeps momentum going for unprecedented expansion. The South is satisfied when slave-owning Brazil becomes a US territory. And thus slave keeping will go one i think because the Southern farmers will not end their hold on their slaves with out a fight. |
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simpleton
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Post by simpleton on Nov 2, 2017 16:44:20 GMT
A half million lives and even more wounded, morphine addicts, etc, were wasted. Slavery was soon rendered unprofittable and doomed by mechanization (besides becoming extremely unpopular worldwide. Britain, France, Spain, Portugal, Holland had abolished it and were thriving before the civil war. Even Brazil and the Ottoman Empire had to abolish it long before the 20th century), which would have proceeded faster without the civil war and with massive expansion of US territory, population and economy. Slavery simply could not compete with efficient farming, especially after the great plains become productive and in this case the Argentinian pampas, Canadian & Brazilian flatlands, etc,
In a sense Russian serfdom was slavery and its survival into the 20th century (despite periodic famines, which killed millions) ruined Russian population, agriculture, industry, economy and progress. Exactly the same would have happened to the south, had it persisted with slavery.
King Leupold ruined the Congo in the late 19th century with extremely cruel slavery, killing over 10 million people and mutilating a similar number (which could have produced a lot of rubber, lumber, cacao, coffee, bananas, pineapples, sugar, rice, cotton, expensive minerals: uranium, cobalt, tantalum, copper, etc, at low cost, and prospered if employed intelligently) for his personal wealth, but he lost his personal colony to Belgium, when he was exposed. Had he been a better businessman, he would have become wealthier and his family would have owned a huge, thriving colony well into the 20th century.
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simpleton
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Post by simpleton on Nov 4, 2017 18:23:46 GMT
Much faster development of the west (and South), avoiding the OTL greatest plunder in history.
ATL The US government does not grant a ridiculously huge 10% of the contiguous US territory to a few RR companies (an area larger than Texas), who sold the real estate near the tracks to farmers, towns people, industries, etc, at high prices, ruined settlers' economy for decades and created a few super wealthy families.
The government does provide only the initial funds and starts selling property immediately to settlers, etc, at reasonable prices, so that settlers' economy is not ruined and settlement is encouraged and much faster. Settlers without funds (European immigrants, poor Americans, colonials, etc,) can pay for the land by working for the RR for several years, applying most of the salary to their mortgage. If they quit, the property will be foreclosed. The money from rapidly developed real state finances continued construction.
Instead of building a single RR line (an extremely long and narrow swathe of settlement, spreading settlers thinly over a dozen territories) and crossing with great difficulty and at a very high cost (for settlers to pay ultimately) the Rockies, the California Sierra, etc, long before it was necessary, 3 nearly parallel RR lines will be built roughly 80 miles appart, advancing westward from the Mississippi 200 miles per year in easy terrain (the great plains). There will be also perpendicular N-S lines connecting the 3 main, parallel E-W lines roughly every 80 miles, with projections 80 m long beyond the north and south lines, providing additional farm land adjacent to tracks. Towns will be built at every RR crossing and at major river crossings. RR grids will also be built in the fertile areas of Texas, Oklahoma and other sparsely populated states and territories far from the main grid. Long, main grids will also be built in the Canadian plains, the Argentine pampas, the Brazilian flatlands, fertile areas in Mexico, Peru, Colombia, Chile, the PI, Manchuria, etc, allowing rapid settlement and development of a small area at a time near the coast or a navigable river in each territory or colony.
The wide swathes of settlement of the development grids E-W and in Texas, etc, concentrates settlers in a small area at a time, close to already developed territory and to each other, reducing transportation costs of farm animals, tools, equipment, people, etc, to the west (and to provide RR construction crews, army, etc,) and farm products to the east. The population and economy of newly developed areas will explode so that as the RR advances, the territory can soon become a state and soaring state income will provide for construction of excellent roads connecting RR lines N-S and E-W, creating more real estate for farming, industry, etc, more jobs, and allowing foundation of additional towns at road-road crossings and road-RR crossings. Roads with the most traffic will become narrow gauge RR lines.
California, BC, Pacific Mexico, Peru, Chile, Alaska, Bolivia, Ecuador, etc, will be settled by large numbers of people, RR steel, trains, etc, reaching the Pacific by train through Tehuantepec or Nicaragua. The Arizona border much be moved south to provide access through the Sea od Cortes.Navigation up the Sea of Cortes is shorter and faster than up the Pacific Baja coast, owing to the latter's strong, southward San Antelmo current. A RR line from the port in the Sea of Cortes to settlement areas in Arizona will allow rapidly development of Arizona, West California (without having to cross the difficult Sierra), Navada, New Mexico, etc,
Industry, Universities, libraries, museums, hospitals, the army, merchants, etc,. will be able to buy inexpensive land and will have large numbers of workers and clients concentrated in the rapidly developed areas, further boosting growth, education and diversity (so the areas are not entirely dependant on agriculture).
State and federal income will rise rapidly, financing the armed forces expansion and the territorial, industrial and trade expansion it entails.
Japan and Hawaii are even more overcrowded than China, Inida or Europe, so invading them will provide settler of the west coast of the Americas, RR workers, etc, and relieve overcrowding (improving public health, nutrition, employment and the economy in these colonies and making room for a few thousand Americans to sttle in these areas to develop industry, modern agriculture, trade, the armed forces, etc, at least 50,000 young Hawaiians and 4 million young Japanese can settle the Pacific coast of the Americas, Palawan, Leyte, Mindoro, Borneo, Manchuria, Indichina, Thailand, Madagascar, Soth Africa, etc, as the immigrants prosper, their letters will attract more immigrants. Once we rule Ibndia and China and have a huge merchant fleet, at least 10 million coastal people from each colony, who are also overcrowded and be relocated to sparsely populated, fertile areas all over the world (Central Africa, Colombia, Brasil, etc,).
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Post by patrick1978 on Dec 29, 2017 1:29:23 GMT
Maybe a halfway point instead of outright annexation? For example the United States annexes the same territory as OTL but maintains a permanent though moderate military presence in Mexico. During World War I, Mexico eagerly joins Germany in 1917 and pays dearly for it. The Mexican Army is immediately disbanded, Baja California is annexed, and the remainder of Mexico is under full-fledged military occupation for decades. The U.S. cancels a planned withdrawal due to the outbreak of World War II in order to prevent Mexico from siding with the Axis Powers. This happens again during the Cold War when the Mexican Communist Party won the election, prompting the U.S. to further clamp down on Mexican sovereignty. Eventually the Occupation of Mexico essentially becomes a permanent fact of life and continues to this day.
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Tipsyfish
Petty Officer 2nd Class
Posts: 46
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Post by Tipsyfish on Mar 10, 2018 0:38:00 GMT
The first problem that the U.S would encounter would be trying to occupy such a large territory and keep it supplied. Mexico before the start of the war was in equal size to the United States, and while the occupied territory in our time line required few supplies and guards, that is because very few people lived their. In Alta California their was around 160,000 people, including Native American tribes and in Nuevo Mexico the number was 120,000, the population was too small to cause any major issues for the occupiers. Mexico proper contained six million people, a quarter of the U.S population. Simply trying to keep a garrison and population supplied would stretch U.S logistics to the limit and it wouldn't take long for them to snap, especially with raiders hitting the lines. The sheer amount of men needed for this task would make the process nearly impossible, since the army at 100,000 men had to buy a good amount of their supplies from the citizens, and until adequate roads or railways could be constructed, supply would be a constant problem.
The second problem would be political and difference of religion. Mexico was a largely catholic nation compared to a Protestant U.S, and damage to church land and property was rampant as the invading armies marched through Mexico, no matter what the generals tried to do to stop it. A good amount of regulars in the US army were Catholics but the bulk of the volunteers were Protestant and from the southern states, and many in the Polk administration and the army feared that this could turn into an all-out religious war. The politicians in the US also would also create a problem, anti-slavery and western/southern elements were heavily opposed to the idea. Anti-slavery supporters saw Mexico as a way to expand the power of slave wielders in congress as new states were admitted, and slavery supporters were very aware that trying to impose slavery back into Mexico would be nearly impossible in most provinces. Slavery needed holders moving into new territories in large enough numbers that they can exercisers a majority of the wealth of a given area. The only places even suited for cotton crops would be along the central coast, a region already heavily populated and not open to settlers.
The third problem is having to deal with Mexico's per-existing problems. A revolution in the Yucatan was occurring, and the Republic of Rio Grande had only been suppressed for a few years, and countless more revolutions could rise once American influence was introduced. Mexico's debt also would most likely be assumed by the U.S under pressure from the British and French governments who had nearly 80 million loaned to Mexico in our time line. The American economy couldn't stand having to pay off such a large debt, combined with the expenses of needing to have a large occupying force. More division would be created in the government, and this could accelerate the start of the civil war, depending on the political aftermath of attempting to enforce the occupation
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