baloo
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Post by baloo on Jan 13, 2017 23:08:42 GMT
There are a lot of thread on different AH boards about, given a German victory in WWII, who would have followed Hitler as Führer when he died. Usually they have him dying sometime during the 50's. I have a more interesting question, that I've never seen answered except in published works of fiction. Again, assuming that German victory, make a list of the Führers following Hitler up to and including the present.
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lordroel
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Post by lordroel on Jan 14, 2017 7:22:52 GMT
There are a lot of thread on different AH boards about, given a German victory in WWII, who would have followed Hitler as Führer when he died. Usually they have him dying sometime during the 50's. I have a more interesting question, that I've never seen answered except in published works of fiction. Again, assuming that German victory, make a list of the Führers following Hitler up to and including the present. Depends, is Rudolf Hess the wannabe Deputy Führer alive and does he still matter as in OTL he was informed that he would have no significant war roles in the German government and that he had to coordinate through Martin Bormann for any matters requiring Hitler's attention. |
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doug181
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Post by doug181 on Jan 14, 2017 13:44:57 GMT
Depends on what year war ends. Early war I'D say Goring later Himmler,or it could turn out a quiet type moved himself in.
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baloo
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Post by baloo on Jan 14, 2017 15:36:59 GMT
Let's assume a victory in 1945 or no later than 1948. And who is Führer _now_, in 2017?
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lordroel
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Post by lordroel on Jan 14, 2017 16:52:19 GMT
Let's assume a victory in 1945 or no later than 1948. And who is Führer _now_, in 2017? The Third Reich might go the way of the Soviet Union and do not exsit in 2017. |
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stevep
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Post by stevep on Jan 14, 2017 19:59:29 GMT
What's mean by victory? Domination of Europe and a cold war with rival great powers in N America and possibly the east or actual world domination by the Axis, which would be hugely difficult to achieve.
Plus of course there are massive amounts of butterflies as to how the Germans get to that position and what happens then. As Lordroel says it could well not exist - definitely hopefully not exist. It could have changes either into just a brutal empire gradually falling apart because of massive opposition or you could have had someone like Himmler getting into power and it imploding violently amongst even greater slaughter and chaos than occurred OTL.
Because of its nature a Nazi empire is likely to be less stable than a communist one, since it is not just totalitarian but exclusively so and irrational enough to make Lenin or Mao look almost rational.
Steve
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lordroel
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Post by lordroel on Jan 14, 2017 20:14:07 GMT
What's mean by victory? Domination of Europe and a cold war with rival great powers in N America and possibly the east or actual world domination by the Axis, which would be hugely difficult to achieve. Plus of course there are massive amounts of butterflies as to how the Germans get to that position and what happens then. As Lordroel says it could well not exist - definitely hopefully not exist. It could have changes either into just a brutal empire gradually falling apart because of massive opposition or you could have had someone like Himmler getting into power and it imploding violently amongst even greater slaughter and chaos than occurred OTL. Because of its nature a Nazi empire is likely to be less stable than a communist one, since it is not just totalitarian but exclusively so and irrational enough to make Lenin or Mao look almost rational. Steve Well we can rule out Martin Bormann, his power was being the private sectary of Hitler, with out Hitler alive he has not much power. |
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baloo
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Post by baloo on Jan 18, 2017 22:49:04 GMT
Here's my timeline, for what it's worth.
1942 the UK signs a separate peace with Germany and declares itself neutral. The US abandons the war in Europe soon after and convinces Hitler to break his alliance with Japan in exchange for a "permanent" peace with the US. Soon after that, the treaty of Barcelona establishes that peace.
1954 Hitler dies unexpectedly of a stroke. SS coup. Heydrich (he survives in this timeline) arrests Himmler and Goebbles and declares himself Führer. Göring supports him and civil war is avoided.
1961 Heydrich finally is assassinated by a disgruntled subordinate. His designated successor, Deputy Führer Leon Degrelle, becomes Führer.
1994 Degrelle dies of heart attack, SS Commandant Arnold Schwarzenegger becomes Führer and remains so as of 2017.
Do please critique.
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lordroel
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Post by lordroel on Jan 19, 2017 3:47:34 GMT
Here's my timeline, for what it's worth. 1942 the UK signs a separate peace with Germany and declares itself neutral. The US abandons the war in Europe soon after and convinces Hitler to break his alliance with Japan in exchange for a "permanent" peace with the US. Soon after that, the treaty of Barcelona establishes that peace. 1954 Hitler dies unexpectedly of a stroke. SS coup. Heydrich (he survives in this timeline) arrests Himmler and Goebbles and declares himself Führer. Göring supports him and civil war is avoided. 1961 Heydrich finally is assassinated by a disgruntled subordinate. His designated successor, Deputy Führer Leon Degrelle, becomes Führer. 1994 Degrelle dies of heart attack, SS Commandant Arnold Schwarzenegger becomes Führer and remains so as of 2017. Do please critique. 1942, is that not already to late, toughed mostly the year the United Kingdom would sign a deal with Germany was due Battle of Dunkirk ore Battle of Britain going wrong for the United Kingdom. |
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doug181
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Post by doug181 on Jan 19, 2017 21:03:42 GMT
I agree with Lordoel war was going much better for Britain in 1942
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lordroel
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Post by lordroel on Jan 19, 2017 21:43:37 GMT
I agree with Lordoel war was going much better for Britain in 1942 And after after 1941 we can put down Rudolf Hess as the next fuhrer of the Third Reich if he flew to the United Kingdom as he did in OTL. |
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stevep
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Post by stevep on Jan 19, 2017 23:19:35 GMT
I could see Britain coming to terms in 42 IF the US wasn't in the war, say because the Japanese only attacked the British and Dutch but not with the US a belligent.
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lordroel
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Post by lordroel on Jan 20, 2017 7:42:23 GMT
I could see Britain coming to terms in 42 IF the US wasn't in the war, say because the Japanese only attacked the British and Dutch but not with the US a belligent. Ore somebody else than Roosevelt was president of the United States and who was not a interventionist like him. |
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stevep
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Post by stevep on Jan 20, 2017 15:52:22 GMT
I could see Britain coming to terms in 42 IF the US wasn't in the war, say because the Japanese only attacked the British and Dutch but not with the US a belligent. Ore somebody else than Roosevelt was president of the United States and who was not a interventionist like him. If that was the case the US wouldn't be at war at all, or possibly only against Japan if Hitler showed a bit more constraint. Possibly even Britain comes to terms after the fall of France. |
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