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Post by Otto Kretschmer on Apr 28, 2024 8:18:10 GMT
What if the English had won the battle of Hastings? What would be the consequences?
There are several things to consider: 1. The English language. Without the Norman conquest English would have remained a fully Germanic language. It would be much more similar to Dutch and Low German in terms of vocabulary. 2. Weaker feudalism. Without the Norman conquest, feudalism wouldn't have been so strong in England 3. There would be much stronger political and cultural ties to Scandinavia
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stevep
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Post by stevep on Apr 28, 2024 14:12:31 GMT
What if the English had won the battle of Hastings? What would be the consequences? There are several things to consider: 1. The English language. Without the Norman conquest English would have remained a fully Germanic language. It would be much more similar to Dutch and Low German in terms of vocabulary. 2. Weaker feudalism. Without the Norman conquest, feudalism wouldn't have been so strong in England 3. There would be much stronger political and cultural ties to Scandinavia
1) - Agreed. It will pick up some influence from other languages, especially probably Latin as the language of international discussion but the French influence will be very small
2) - Also agree. Without the destruction of so much of the English political, social and economic structure there will be more of a strong monarchy checked by a wide range of figures, not just powerful nobles and the church. Also without the physical destruction of the conquest and afterwards England will have substantially more wealth.
3) There will be strong ties with Scandinavia and also much of Northern Germany. Both because of language and cultural similarities and in the latter case English clergy played a major role in bringing Christianity to Germany and parts of the Low Counties in previous centuries. Without the harrowing of the north there's going to be a significant population of Scandinavian origin in that region but how fully that is or isn't absorbed by this stage I don't know. I mention the German links because while there have been close links with Scandinavia their often not been good ones for England. The ravaging of pagan Viking times then again in more recent decades under the Danes Sweyn and Cnut and there's just been the attack by Harald of Norway. The Norwegians are removed from play for the moment after their defeat at Stamford Bridge but the Danes might again be a threat.
Also other factors that come to mind. 4) Your likely to see better relations between England and Ireland as the OTL Norman conquest of the latter isn't going to occur here. Your going to have continued conflict with Scotland and Wales but while a strong English monarch is likely to want recognition of overlordship - and of course ending raids on English territories attempts at outright annexation is probably going to be unlikely in the foreseeable future. You might see England regaining control of Lothian - which could have big impact on Scotland's future development and possibly seek to restore Strathclyde as a client state. However relations with Ireland are likely to remain pretty good.
5) Without England providing a lot of the wealth and manpower of the later Norman and then Plantagenet dynasty Normandy could well end up eclipsed by the French state, especially if as is likely the Normans lose a lot of their men and very likely their leadership, especially William at Hastings. If so does some other regional power end up challenging the French monarchy or is it unified earlier? That could have a big impact on the future of western Europe as a whole. One other alternative might be France divided into its northern lands and the southern regions which had a different culture and language. In turn their going to generate a lot of butterflies elsewhere.
6) Assuming that Byzantium has the same troubled history as OTL your likely to still see the crusades called and presuming that the Papacy has accepted Harold's position - there is some evidence it supported William's usurping of him - England will be send crusaders but their likely to be more along the line of virtually solely infantry forces. Which could suffer against both Turks and Fatimid's cavalry and archer forces but might prove useful in siege combat and could bring ideas back for England so prompting the need for some cavalry units and more archer ones. Which will prompt changes but how quickly and in which directions?
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