lordroel
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Post by lordroel on Mar 10, 2016 20:01:57 GMT
That the Kalmar Union taking advantage of the trouble going on in Russia, also would the Kalmar Union allow the Polish–Lithuanian Commonwealth to occupy Russia. Wouldn't have a choice really. Sweden tried to make claim to their own person to the throne after the Poles were ousted. In 1614-1615, Poland sided with Russia and attacked Sweden in Livonia and Estonia, giving Russia enough time to elect someone that everyone could agree upon. But would the Kalmar Union do the same thing what Sweden did. |
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Tipsyfish
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Post by Tipsyfish on Mar 10, 2016 20:20:27 GMT
Wouldn't have a choice really. Sweden tried to make claim to their own person to the throne after the Poles were ousted. In 1614-1615, Poland sided with Russia and attacked Sweden in Livonia and Estonia, giving Russia enough time to elect someone that everyone could agree upon. But would the Kalmar Union do the same thing what Sweden did. Depends. It also depends on what area the current reigning head is (I.E Denmark or Sweden) If it's from the former then their focus will likely be somewhat eastern but mostly surrounding Northern Europe. Sweden would be mainly eastern. They would at most try to apply this as to a counter to Polish expansion, and admit Russia as part of the "Nordic" union. |
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lordroel
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Post by lordroel on Mar 10, 2016 20:51:22 GMT
But would the Kalmar Union do the same thing what Sweden did. (I.E Denmark or Sweden) What about Norway, the are also a member or part of the Kalmar Union. |
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Tipsyfish
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Post by Tipsyfish on Mar 10, 2016 21:08:48 GMT
What about Norway, the are also a member or part of the Kalmar Union. Norway was heavily devastated after the black death, so much so that the nobility had pretty much ceased to exist. |
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lordroel
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Post by lordroel on Mar 11, 2016 10:20:34 GMT
What about Norway, the are also a member or part of the Kalmar Union. Norway was heavily devastated after the black death, so much so that the nobility had pretty much ceased to exist. So being a Norwegian is being a second rate citizens in the Kalmar Union. |
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Tipsyfish
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Post by Tipsyfish on Mar 13, 2016 5:36:53 GMT
Norway was heavily devastated after the black death, so much so that the nobility had pretty much ceased to exist. So being a Norwegian is being a second rate citizens in the Kalmar Union. For some time sure? Norway had been made into a Danish province in 1536, before their nobility had a chance to grow so it's a bit hard to determine how they'd fair under a union, I doubt that they would have lost their autonomous council though. The treatment of the peasants would also really depend on what the ruling monarch originated from. Denmark had a much harsher form of peasantry (pretty much serfdom) while Sweden had "free" peasants. (It's been a while since I've read the info about it so I can't give you direct numbers, but it was were the percentage of the land in Sweden was 39% towards peasants, while in Denmark it was only 3%, the rest split between the crown, church, and the various lords.) |
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stevep
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Post by stevep on Mar 14, 2016 22:06:12 GMT
Guys
A lot depends on the circumstances but if the union survives and comes to dominate the Baltic without a ruinous war with the Hansiatic League then I could see it having too much power to be challenge in the region. Its likely to be able to resist a challenge from the Dutch and the English/British are influential only really from ~1650 onwards and really 1700+. Similarly if it can stay strong and united then it would be likely to successfully resist any Russia encroachment on the Baltic region for a very long period, especially since it would increase Russian isolation. If a Czar pushes too hard and gets crushed decisively enough you could even see prolonged instability and social unrest/change in Russia itself.
As was stated I think the primary need would be to balance the divergent desires of Denmark and Sweden without also over-extending the state. Norway is too weak to be significant during this period but presuming the Union goes Protestant then its going to greatly affect any equivalent to the Reformation. Unless it prompts a strong reaction to prevent Nordic domination of much of central Europe, which might occur, you are likely to see Protestantism securing/holding much great areas of Europe. [Although some areas, such as Britain or the Netherlands, facing competition/threats from the Union and with butterflies might stay Catholic.] Not sure what might happen with Poland, which is likely to be hugely important as to how thing develop.
At some point the Union will fail, or at least be driven back to its Nordic core. Whether it expanded beyond that again would depend on how it had developed wider areas and how much identity with or loyalty to the union their populations might have. It could collapse completely especially if Sweden and Denmark continue to maintain strong and divergent identities. As always everything depends on events.
Steve
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