gillan1220
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I've been depressed recently. Slow replies coming in the next few days.
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Post by gillan1220 on Mar 3, 2024 14:29:56 GMT
The U.S. learned more on how amphibious operations from the Pacific. Well technically, Operation Torch was an amphibious landing as well. I read from an article in 2016 that the Battle of Tarawa in 1943 is where the U.S. learned lessons on how to conduct the D-Day landings. Meanwhile, the timeline For All Time has the Allies conducting D-Day in 1943 with disastrous results. This aint Wolfenstein though. It does not need to be like Wolfenstein. A disastrous D-Day landing in 1943 would set Allies back for a year. Or it might focus the Allies to land in the south of France from Italy just like OTL's Operation Dragoon. |
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stevep
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Post by stevep on Mar 3, 2024 16:41:58 GMT
This aint Wolfenstein though. It does not need to be like Wolfenstein. A disastrous D-Day landing in 1943 would set Allies back for a year. Or it might focus the Allies to land in the south of France from Italy just like OTL's Operation Dragoon.
At least the best part of a year before another and markedly more powerful landing in N France. Operations in the Med may be less possible depending on what sacrifices would be needed to get the necessary resources for a 43 landing. To get that your unlikely to see occupation of Sicily or other Italians islands and may need the Torch Operation to be dropped - unless the allies gamble and win it a lot quicker, which would mean markedly lower German losses.
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Post by American hist on Mar 3, 2024 17:06:28 GMT
stevep, first off forgive me for a few spelling errors on my post which altered what I meant. I really don’t see how this 1943 invasion of France is going to succeed so these sideshow campaigns are more or less a procrastination but they’re also preparing the military for white will be ahead. The summer of 1943 sounds impossible how about the winter of 1943. Didn’t the allies make sure the winter landing would be impossible for northern France due to the stormy weather that affects the waves? It’s not a bad idea to necessarily have a joint American British European theater of operations military to be sent in the Pacific for a temporary amount of time. Also I figured out that the allies did not directly invade Sardinia and Corsica but they were under their control. By September 1943 the Germans withdrew from Sardinia to Corsica which the Allies did liberate Corsica from the access in the fall of 1943 according to Wikipedia. I however do you stand by invading the Greek islands and part of the Greek peninsula is it an idea amber have some more thorough blockade of Crete. Well the allies couldn’t bakery 75,000 strong for such a big island is a sizable invasion force. there was wisdom to Churchills invasion of the Balkans though I think it might be more trouble than it’s worth so I propose operations done on the island where we do not have to necessarily make a full commitment campaign throughout the Balikans
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stevep
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Post by stevep on Mar 4, 2024 0:23:59 GMT
stevep , first off forgive me for a few spelling errors on my post which altered what I meant. I really don’t see how this 1943 invasion of France is going to succeed so these sideshow campaigns are more or less a procrastination but they’re also preparing the military for white will be ahead. The summer of 1943 sounds impossible how about the winter of 1943. Didn’t the allies make sure the winter landing would be impossible for northern France due to the stormy weather that affects the waves? It’s not a bad idea to necessarily have a joint American British European theater of operations military to be sent in the Pacific for a temporary amount of time. Also I figured out that the allies did not directly invade Sardinia and Corsica but they were under their control. By September 1943 the Germans withdrew from Sardinia to Corsica which the Allies did liberate Corsica from the access in the fall of 1943 according to Wikipedia. I however do you stand by invading the Greek islands and part of the Greek peninsula is it an idea amber have some more thorough blockade of Crete. Well the allies couldn’t bakery 75,000 strong for such a big island is a sizable invasion force. there was wisdom to Churchills invasion of the Balkans though I think it might be more trouble than it’s worth so I propose operations done on the island where we do not have to necessarily make a full commitment campaign throughout the Balikans
I'm reluctant to rule anything out as impossible without it being scientifically so but I am very doubtful that a 43 landing will succeed. However the problem for me is that if its attempted because enough western leaders think it can and want it then how much does it impact on western efforts elsewhere? Both in terms of the losses in the failed invasion and the opportunity costs that very little can occur in the Med due to the demands of such a campaign.
If as OTL there is no attempt at N France in 43 then whether other operations occur in the Med or elsewhere compared to OTL depends on the circumstances. If your referring to such operations after a failed N France landing a lot would depend on what resources are available. Which is not just a question of military forces but also shipping, logistics, air support, training new units and rebuilding morale, developing landing and other doctrines.
I don't thing a greater involvement in the Pacific would be on. It would take too much time for British forces especially to be switched so far eastwards, especially with how heavily strained allied logistics were during this period. Plus there was a political commitment to priority for the European theatre as Germany was seen as the primary threat and both Britain and the USSR definitely felt it was the enemy that needed to go down 1st.
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Post by American hist on Mar 13, 2024 2:21:21 GMT
I wish I knew the name of this book but this historian argues that the British and Americans wanted Stalin to bleed first. However, part of this argument is also based on the reality that besides the air war over Europe the allied and army was not able to do as muc h until D-Day. Italy is Mountnes especially the more northern you go in Italy. Expanding The pacific war probably isn’t on, but it was suggested. After churchel , he’ll receive the surrender of Nazi Germany. The British Navy was ordered to be retrained for the Pacific theater, and serve in 1945 Okinawa.
Ok
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Post by American hist on Mar 15, 2024 22:53:55 GMT
This 1943 landing isn’t possible, especially considering the number of soldiers that should be focused on the Mediterranean theater of operation. Churchill had some good ideas about invading the Balkans if it were done in 1943. history.army.mil/books/wwii/antiguer-ops/ag-balkan.htmAfter the Allies got bogged down in the fall of 1943, that should’ve been the time, in my opinion, to invade the Balkans. It’s also possible that the British would be able to pay closer attention to the Mediterranean, such as allowing Greece To possibly capitulate earlier. While the allies suggested operation market garden for the Americans to parachute, and I believe for the US Army to catch up. However, while the area is mountainous, the Allied airborne could be of use if the Allies only intended to invade southern Italy. |
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stevep
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Post by stevep on Mar 16, 2024 0:13:07 GMT
This 1943 landing isn’t possible especially considering the amount of soldiers that should be focused on the Mediterranean theater of operation. Churchill have some good ideas about invading the Balkans if it’s done in 1943. history.army.mil/books/wwii/antiguer-ops/ag-balkan.htmAfter the allies got bogged down in the fall of 1943 that should’ve been the time in my opinion to invade the Balkans. It’s also the British would be able to have closer attention on the Mediterranean such as allowing Greece. To possibly capitulate earlier. While the allies suggested operation market garden for the Americans to parachute, and I believe for the US Army to catch up. However, while the area is mountainous, the allied airborne could be of use is the allies only intend to invade, southern Italy.
Its controversial but an idea I think has merit as well. Occupy N Africa earlier if you can get away with it. Then Sicily, Sardinia and southern Italy which would almost certainly force an Italian surrender and secure control of the central Med. Unless the extensive airbases and some decent ports in S Italy to support operations in the Balkans where while the terrain is rough there are a lot of people you could win over and with control of the air the limited logistics means its difficult and costly for the Germans to get supplies and reinforcements to the front. Also once you can contest control of the Danube and seriously attack Polesti - whether by land or earlier on by air - you cause massive problems for Germany.
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Post by American hist on Mar 16, 2024 0:23:39 GMT
This 1943 landing isn’t possible especially considering the amount of soldiers that should be focused on the Mediterranean theater of operation. Churchill have some good ideas about invading the Balkans if it’s done in 1943. history.army.mil/books/wwii/antiguer-ops/ag-balkan.htmAfter the allies got bogged down in the fall of 1943 that should’ve been the time in my opinion to invade the Balkans. It’s also the British would be able to have closer attention on the Mediterranean such as allowing Greece. To possibly capitulate earlier. While the allies suggested operation market garden for the Americans to parachute, and I believe for the US Army to catch up. However, while the area is mountainous, the allied airborne could be of use is the allies only intend to invade, southern Italy. Its controversial but an idea I think has merit as well. Occupy N Africa earlier if you can get away with it. Then Sicily, Sardinia and southern Italy which would almost certainly force an Italian surrender and secure control of the central Med. Unless the extensive airbases and some decent ports in S Italy to support operations in the Balkans where while the terrain is rough there are a lot of people you could win over and with control of the air the limited logistics means its difficult and costly for the Germans to get supplies and reinforcements to the front. Also once you can contest control of the Danube and seriously attack Polesti - whether by land or earlier on by air - you cause massive problems for Germany.
You're right, and if it fails, at least Italy wouldn't have much success, either. However, the Allies would have been a fool not to have a d day in 1944. Also the complaint by stalen is neutrialized of the allies not doing enough if we invade the Balkans to coordinate the Red forces. Perhaps momentarily, this would appease stains beliefs that the West is not trying its best. Also, I do think the biggest parachute drope the world has seen makes much more sense in the Balkans. The 1943 French liberation must be given up by anyone, although I would be intrigued by the possibility of the argument being long if it's not come from Joesph Stalen following. |
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