oscssw
Senior chief petty officer
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Post by oscssw on Aug 18, 2022 15:25:34 GMT
As the RN task force in 1982 approaches Ascension, there is a purplish flash and they find themselves with some company: HMS Ark Royal circa 1975, HMS Lion and HMS Tiger c. 1963 and HMS Vanguard post 1955 refit. All have full crews, quite confused, and full armament. What happens next? 1. The medics will be treating human casualties for mental and physical shock. 2. Physical translation through a wormhole will have caused extensive physical plant casualties on the four vessels. 3. After 1 and 2 are temporarily sorted out, the business of trying to put a couple of practical WWII museum ships, a battleship of dubious utility and a probably badly damaged aircraft carrier into the order of battle remains. Ark Royal 1975 is about worn out with catapults and arrestor gear at the end of their service lives, but any halfway working CATOBAR is better than a ski-jumper for fleet air operations.  Note the Corsairs? Those are USNAS by markings. USN pilots? Photo is from 1975. HMS Vanguard's AAA suite is obsolete. Her main battery is of some shore bombardment utility. However, she will be a bomb and Exocet sponge, so expect to write her off. HMS Lion and HMS Tiger 1963 are not able to engage targets moving at Mach 0.5 or faster flying at less than 100 meters off the deck. Their radars are not good enough. They are a sink-ex liability in the air combat environment: but can do shore bombardment with HMS Vanguard. I see that HMS Ark Royal was carrying some Corsairs (See 1975 photo). This would be valuable in the air defense role as CAP gun fighters / and CAS strikers to complement sidewinder armed Harriers. How good is the aboard helo detachment at ASW? The "modern" RN ships and helos present at the time were "unacceptable". The key improvement is the Gannets. AEW aircraft are worth their weight in platinum. Woah, miletus12 my friend, hold your horses for just a bit. IMO FWIW, you are being far too hard on Simon's great ATL idea. As I see it his ALT so he makes the rules.
Let's take it by the numbers; your numbers shall we? 
1. The medics will be treating human casualties for mental and physical shock.
That is an assumption that Simon can easily discount by just putting in the word "instant". No time for mental or physical trauma.
2. Physical translation through a wormhole will have caused extensive physical plant casualties on the four vessels. Another assumption, The USS Nimitz provides documented data that does not necessarily have to happen, unless Simon wants it to.
3. After 1 and 2 are temporarily sorted out, the business of trying to put a couple of practical WWII museum ships, a battleship of dubious utility and a probably badly damaged aircraft carrier into the order of battle remains.
If I read Simon's original post right all three were functioning satisfactorily and had even had very recent Shipyard availabilities leaving them in excellent condition. I refer you to Nimitz again.
Ark Royal 1975 is about worn out with catapults and arrestor gear at the end of their service lives
Maybe by RN standards but not by USN standards. The RN sells off their ships while they still have a lot of life in them.
From 1967 to February 1970, R-09 underwent a refit which was a major rebuild to her structure. The refit also added several improvements, which allowed her to comfortably operate the larger Phantom and Buccaneer Mk.2 aircraft. Her modifications included a full 8.5° angled flight deck, new and far more powerful steam catapults, bridle-catchers, heavy-grade jet-blast deflectors and heavy-weight arrestor cables. Twelve hundred miles of new cabling was installed, but the ship was not completely rewired and retained old DC electrics. A modified island and a partially new electronic suite were also added, though some of her original radars, such as 983 heightfinders were retained and she did received two double-array 966 versions of the standard RN 965 long-range system and one of the new 986 sets. Significantly, Ark Royal was the first and only RN carrier fitted with a USN carrier approach system, the AN-SPN 35 radar, increasing night aircraft operational capability and safety. Her flight deck size was increased port aft, giving her extra deck-park space for her airgroup. She was also fitted for four Seacat missile launchers, which were never installed, so she emerged from refit with no defensive armament except for Corvus decoy launchers. Looks like standard practice for USN Carriers of the time to me. I guess it would take little for Simon to have those Seacts installed and to give those cats a few more years of life after all it is his ATL.
Significantly, there was little more than an overhaul of her steam turbines and boilers, meaning that mechanically she was very dated; however, the stripping-out of Eagle meant that for a time essential spares were available. Just because a plant is dated does not mean it is defective. Sure it is more maintenance and manpower intensive but the USN has kearned to live with those inconveniences for many, many years. I served aboard a WW II late War Gearing Fram 1 that got along just fine with her original propulsion and auxiliary plant.
but any halfway working CATOBAR is better than a ski-jumper for fleet air operations.
Yup and that is the point that makes this such an intriguing ATL.
Go for it "Reaper", I can't wait to read it. I'm so happy I let you make a safe landing alongside that young lonely widow's, farm on the tip of Greenland.  |
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miletus12
Squadron vice admiral
To get yourself lost, just follow the signs.
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Post by miletus12 on Aug 18, 2022 17:59:14 GMT
Woah, miletus12 my friend, hold your horses for just a bit. IMO FWIW, you are being far too hard on Simon's great ATL idea. As I see it his ALT so he makes the rules. This is not "The Final Countdown" when I look at it. This is "The Philadelphia Experiment". So I applied a little H.P. Lovecraft.Let me ask you a simple question? The photo of the HMS Ark Royal was taken during Ocean Safari when the flattop was operating with a composite NATO air wing. That exercise was staged over a period of some weeks in the eastern north Atlantic and into the North Sea. Now, you are a flight deck seadog who knows his oceans and knows which way the waves go and how a toilet flushes on this screwed up planet. And you see the signs that the sun has shifted, the wind is coming from the east and the weather has changed. When do you panic? How about right now right away as your scrambled brain tries to sort out mixed input signals? North Sea to South Atlantic off the Falkland Islands 200 NM east is kind of different. I will give you a Harold Shea and an L. Sprague de Camp "The Compleat Enchanter" alternative. Or some Edgar Rice Burroughs alternative "John Carter of Mars" leeway, but the shock to body and machines seems to be a thing that both of those good writers predict. This is not H.G. Wells, who was a bit off on his "magic" here. You remember that transposition that we see in the film? How come did the plane-guard destroyer not come through with her? Anyway, the aircraft carrier came through a storm with a lot of near local electrical discharge effects. Safety measures would be in effect? There is some damage shown in the ship internals scenes and at least one sailor goes crazy. The pilot of the A-7 that is barricaded aboard has physiological and psychological effects of the wormhole transit. So: I will take "The Final Countdown" as an example of best possible start conditions with evidence of the least credible presented physical and psychological effects that I would expect. Here I would refer to the record of deferred refit and repair which was the RN practice with that service. Refer to the HMS Eagle being stripped for parts. Her air search radars might be competitive. I am not convinced about the integration of system of systems. If we take the real RN system integration and information share shipboard operations off the Falklands as given for this scenario, it was "unacceptable". Hmmm. I will give you dated but "acceptable" propulsion and "useable" electronics. I am not sure that I am happy about hull age or steam plant or arrester gear or still using bridles on the cat shuttle throw. Mind you the USN was still using the bridle, too. Can't have everything... Sure. Those Gannets could not operate off a ski-jump.
Happy landings. |
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stevep
Fleet admiral
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Post by stevep on Aug 18, 2022 19:32:46 GMT
As the RN task force in 1982 approaches Ascension, there is a purplish flash and they find themselves with some company: HMS Ark Royal circa 1975, HMS Lion and HMS Tiger c. 1963 and HMS Vanguard post 1955 refit. All have full crews, quite confused, and full armament. What happens next?
Well "Reaper" that would bed one hell of a 1980's TG.
First Galtieri and his lieutenants collectively shit their pants. The he calls up Maggie and declares the unconditional surrender of the Malvinas back to the UK and pleads for an immediate cease fire.
2nd he gets on the phone to the Malvinas Commander and orders him to prepare his troops for immediate "redeployment" back to homeland bases.
3rd, one of his LTs contacts the garrison commander at South Georgia and orders him to prepare his troops for immediate "redeployment" back to homeland bases.
4th he orders the navy to get it's amphibious transports and any chartered, fast merchies to the Malvinas yesterday to conduct an immediate "redeployment" of the occupation troops and any other Argentine nationals back to Argentina.
5th he orders the Argentine Air Force transports and as many chartered aircraft able to use Stanley air strip to begin immediate "redeployment" back to Argentina.
6th he looks around his senior staff and advisors for his soon to be executed for Treason scape goat(s).
7th makes a few calls to ensure his last resort escape plan is still viable and all assets, especially financial, family and favorite mistresses are immediately available for PCS ( permanent change of station) . He'd have to a really nice place without extradition and one that would tell the UN to go piss up a rope, if the money was right.
JEDDAH, Saudi Arabia is his safest bet but he really does not like the climate and they are far too cosey with the USA's CIA at times. He already investigated and made some very high level government inquiries in Spain, Switzerland and MonteCarlo. These are three are wonderful places but they do have a history of sometimes giving up their guests.... WHEN Their MOney Ran Out but he had plenty and would make one last withdrawal from the treasury as he left. Money talks, BS and ethics walk.
8. I'd also think the Exchequer would have a nervous breakdown when they thought about the fiscal ramifications of "acquiring" those great capital ships and their huge crews. I'd bet Maggie, both sides of the Parliament and her Bean counters would make it clear to The Admiralty "You can NOT keep them; they will break us. See if any of our Commonwealth friends want to BUY them? At least the Ark Royal, in good condition, should bring in a pretty good price. Unlikely anyone can afford Tiger or Vanguard. However a tin pot dictator in South America or Middle East just might be willing to take them off our hands at a knockdown price. In any case the "War" is over and you will reduce HM forces to peacetime levels immediately."
Hope this helps Simon.
I don't know if he would give up that quickly but it might be the case. Especially since it seems that Britain has supernatural/divine assistance.
Otherwise give the mess the regime was in already and the backdown he's going to have to do I think step 7 would be his 1st aim and 1-5 would depend on whether he thinks he can stay around to implement them before he does step 7.
I fear your right about step 8. In this case it would probably be justified given that the ships are outdated, other than a elderly Ark Royal which is near the end of its practical life. Given Thatcher's desire to slash the navy budget I can't see any of them surviving any longer than the current crisis although there might be the possibility that Vanguard might be preserved as a memorial ship - albeit only by some charity organization of course.
Just had an interesting thought. With the people from the down-time ships there are going to be questions about pay, pensions etc even for those of them who aren't younger versions of 1982 people. Plus we have the issue that if say one of them later in life was involved in some crime or scandal you have the old issue with ISOT cases of can you blame them for something their not yet done?
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Post by simon darkshade on Aug 19, 2022 13:28:29 GMT
On the last point, Steve, legally, there would be no basis whatsoever for a putative crime unless the preparation had actually begun.
Senior Chief, you are too kind. I'm going to play around with this a bit as something of a side project, between my other writing, university and work, so you are onto something with some of your speculation. And thank you for the lovely Greenland holiday!
Miletus, you raise some very interesting points as ever. I don't intend to turn this into a novella or anything, but you've given me a few ideas for this 'little bit of fun'.
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Post by simon darkshade on Mar 23, 2023 8:12:07 GMT
I’m going to have a go at this, with a strict maximum of ~4 parts, during April. It is very much a bit of ASB fun, combined with another limited length Earth/Dark Earth WW2 crossover.
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