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Post by Max Sinister on Mar 21, 2024 7:23:55 GMT
As you know, I had considered a successful strike against Kandalaksha as another Six (the fourth so far). But I'm still not entirely sure how... Some new ideas: - Estonian volunteers join the Finnish front. In their country winters are less cold than in Finland, but at least they hate the Bolshies and know how to fight in forests and swamps.
- Siilasvuo becomes friends with some German commander and helps them more than usual.
- The additional troops find out that the Soviets aren't as strong as the Finns had expected (hindsight is 20/20...)
So or so: Once the Kirov railroad is seriously in danger, Frolov will demand more troops from "comrade" Stalin. However, all the other generals will do the same, and it's not a safe bet that Stalin will understand the particular importance of the railroad. Despite the fact that a good part of L&L goes that way.
Enough talk, now about the Finnish front(s): In the South, the Finns reach the shores of Lake Ladoga after a few days. During the second half of August, they take Vyborg/Viipuri, are 20 miles/30 km from Leningrad and start its siege. They don't want to outright attack it, however. North of Lake Ladoga, the Finns initially only advance until they've reached the old 1939 border. In August, they attack again, advance to river Svir/Lake Onega, take Petrosavodsk, and reach Lake Säämäjärvi/Syamozero. In North Karelia, the Finns initially had overestimated Soviet strength. At some places, their strength was actually lower than that of the Axis troops (even IOTL). In the outmost North, general Eduard Dietl had three divisions to attack. They reached river Litsa in June, established a bridgehead on its east bank, but were halted afterwards. Further south, a mixed force (1 Wehrmacht division, 1 Waffen-SS, 1 Finnish) took the border city of Salla in June, but were stopped as well. Even further south, the Finns advanced and could capture parts of the only Soviet division, took Kestenga/Kiestinki. Divergence: Additionally to OTL, the 6th mountain division under Generalmajor Ferdinand Schörner will be sent to this theater. I'm just not entirely sure where to send him to (Murmansk, further South?) - that guy was a convinced Nazi, called a "bloodhound", and liked to give out the capital punishment if his soldiers didn't obey. Not the kind of guy I'd wish to gain fame... |
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Post by Max Sinister on Mar 27, 2024 23:14:59 GMT
Some alternative considerations how to tip the balance of the war in Russia: - I already hinted at it, re: Dunkirk: Since there'll have to be a big encirclement battle there, the Germans will find out that their Pz III and IV aren't that great against the French Char, let alone their older panzers. So far I only considered that They'll stop producing Pz I and II and stop using them for Barbarossa. But WI this lead to them producing a kind of Tiger earlier? If they had something like that in 1941... (of course, it may well be that the "führer" decides that the Soviets were all "untermenschen" and they didn't need better panzers against them.)
- As said, TTL's Barbarossa started ten days earlier (I hope that's enough not to get into bad spring weather with its Rasputitsa) and twelve divisions more. Which means they might take, if not Leningrad and/or Moscow, maybe some other important cities - like Tula. Why is this city south of Moscow so important? Because it as a center for the production of weapons. (Since the time of a Nikita Demidov in fact, who lived 300 years ago!) IOTL Wehrmacht and Soviets fought for 45 days for the city until the former had to give up. ITTL, it may turn out differently. (I'd like to learn more about this battle, esp. about the Soviet side.)
- What if the "führer" had had his headquarter not in East Prussia, but deeper in the conquered lands? Might help him to learn about Russian weather, with all the mud and snow. IOTL he went to Winniza only as late as July 1942, too late to turn the tide. And it's neither very deep into the SU, nor the coldest city there.
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Post by Max Sinister on Apr 6, 2024 22:59:15 GMT
Some important events I haven't specified yet: - The non-aggression pact between the SU and Japan. Their foreign minister Matsuoka was against it, but really, an attack towards the South makes more sense.
- An equivalent of the Matapan sea battle.
- No British landing on the Lofoten (lacking troops after Dunkirk)
Another idea: As mentioned, in central Finland there was a lone Soviet division opposing two Finnish ones. If the Axis knew that... I wonder whether some air recon might reveal that... OTOH, I'm not so sure about Schörner being sent to Finland anymore. Transporting a division all the way from the Balkan to Finland... I'll rather have a German infantry from Norway helping to besiege Hanko. (Although IOTL the "führer" was against that either. Why didn't he get that this would mean that the Finns owe him a favor?) |
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Post by Max Sinister on Apr 10, 2024 6:39:24 GMT
Now this is really interesting: So far my researches had told me that the Finns hadn't been as aggressive as they could've, and that the admittedly bad territory didn't allow blitzkrieg. But here's a Russian source, and they wouldn't mention it if it wasn't true: "fighting was conducted only on five sections (directions) - Murmansk, Kandalaksha, Kestenga, Ukhta (today called Kalevala - yes, like the Finnish epic) and Reboly. The width of the widest among them (Murmansk) did not exceed 120 km, the rest - 40-50 km." Makes absolute sense. And means that between those sections there is lots of empty space in which you can do operations to confuse the enemy. If only you have troops trained to fight in such difficult terrain. And the Finns definitely did... "Concurrently to these advances, a Finnish jaeger ( jääkäri) battalion was inserted into the largely unoccupied 240 km (150 mi) area between the Murmansk and Kandalaksha directions of the advance and was able to cut the sole railway line connecting Kandalaksha with forward Soviet positions at the Nyam station." As this page states: "This operation was successful for the Finns. They captured the only road on which Soviet troops were supplied, and held it firmly. The supply of food and ammunition [713] ceased. For two weeks, parts were supplied only from field warehouses. With Murmansk, where the headquarters of the 14th army was located, only radio communication was maintained, and then irregularly." And that happened IOTL. It really seems: If the war had started one or two weeks earlier, and the Wehrmacht had one or two more divisions in this theater, and the Soviet troops had been a bit weaker and less prepared, the Murmansk railroad could've been seriously damaged. Enough so it'd be lost for L&L. Also, I'm still not sure whether it might help if the German troops were united to strike at the same place, as opposed to be split up in three places. |
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Post by Max Sinister on Apr 11, 2024 0:18:49 GMT
Just for comparison, here's a map re: Finnish advances IOTL 1941.
Also, TTL equivalent of Matapan might go a bit different. IOTL the Brits were lucky enough to decipher some radio messages of the Luftwaffe. But IOTL, because of the "Black Orchestra" affair from summer 1940, Enigma security was ramped up, so they'll be not as lucky. Have to think about the details.
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Post by Max Sinister on Apr 14, 2024 5:03:32 GMT
OK, as you may know, the success (so to speak) of TTL will depend on the Axis cutting the Murman railroad, if they can't take the city proper. If I can pull this off, half of the victory is done. If not... Here's the start of the Lapland sub-TL: - June 12, 1941: Operation Barbarossa begins. As does Operation Rentier (reindeer), the occupation of Petsamo by Dietl's troops. On the same day, attacks by the Luftwaffe start. For some days, until further Soviet planes arrive here, they have air supremacy, which they use to make air recon. - June 14: Rentier successfully concluded. Finland joins the war. - June 18: Operation Platinfuchs (platinum fox - advance to Murmansk) starts. Dietl's two Gebirgsdivisions do the fighting, while one additional infantry division is building roads, defending against potential Soviet landings, and guarding Rybakhy peninsula.
- June 19: Operation Polarfuchs (arctic fox - advance to Kandalaksha) starts. Salla behind the border occupied. The 122nd Rifles of the Soviets aren't there yet (IOTL, they only arrived at June 24th, according to the Russian WP!), so the Soviets are somewhat confused. - June 26: The Soviets at the Salla-to-Kandalaksha section have united at Kayraly, a small city along the road set between two lakes, good for defense. The Soviets had 330 light tanks and 35-40 medium T-28 ones at the beginning. Note that the two German panzer bataillons opposing them are somewhat stronger than IOTL, because their Panzer Is were replaced by better ones after the Dunkirk battle. Now however Siilasvuo's 3rd division attacks from the South, threatening the Soviet flank, so they have to retreat to Alakurtti, 30 km farther East, where they consolidate around July 10th. - July: The Germans at Alakurtti are busy building corduroy roads, planning to encircle the Soviets there. - Mid-July: Siilasvuo's 6th division has reached Kestenga/Kiestenki and Ukhti/Uhtua (today named Kalevala). His men have destroyed parts of the 54th Soviet Rifles. The Wehrmacht division fighting at his side is guarding his rear. So far just somewhat better than IOTL... but there's still time... BTW, since Schörner went here IOTL as well, he'll come here too. Final decision. But not right from the beginning, after all his troops had been fighting on the Balcan. Same with the 7th Gebirgsjäger. Something more: Since the Bismarck wasn't sunk, it can help guarding the support for the Lapland troops. Another improvement for the Axis. Finally for now: After the experiences in 1941, the Wehrmacht will raise a Skijäger division of their own, with Finnish help for the training. But that's a different story. |
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Post by Max Sinister on Apr 14, 2024 11:36:51 GMT
On an unrelated note, a glimpse into the future of TTL (if I ever make it that far): The elections for POTUS from 1996!
Malcolm Steve Forbes / Jack Kemp (R) defeat Jesse Jackson / Jerry Litton (D), Ross Perot / Richard D. Lamm (I), Dr. Ron Paul / David H. Koch (L), Pat Robertson / Pat Buchanan (C), Ralph Nader (G)
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stevep
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Post by stevep on Apr 14, 2024 13:25:15 GMT
On an unrelated note, a glimpse into the future of TTL (if I ever make it that far): The elections for POTUS from 1996!
Malcolm Steve Forbes / Jack Kemp (R) defeat Jesse Jackson / Jerry Litton (D), Ross Perot / Richard D. Lamm (I), Dr. Ron Paul / David H. Koch (L), Pat Robertson / Pat Buchanan (C), Ralph Nader (G)
It depends on how realistic you want the TL to be but I would say that 50+ years after such dramatic changes your likely to see few names from OTL politics in play. Know it makes it easier to have OTL prominent figures for reader recognition but just to say.
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Post by Max Sinister on Apr 16, 2024 13:35:39 GMT
On an unrelated note, a glimpse into the future of TTL (if I ever make it that far): The elections for POTUS from 1996!
Malcolm Steve Forbes / Jack Kemp (R) defeat Jesse Jackson / Jerry Litton (D), Ross Perot / Richard D. Lamm (I), Dr. Ron Paul / David H. Koch (L), Pat Robertson / Pat Buchanan (C), Ralph Nader (G)
It depends on how realistic you want the TL to be but I would say that 50+ years after such dramatic changes your likely to see few names from OTL politics in play. Know it makes it easier to have OTL prominent figures for reader recognition but just to say.
Well... I see your point, but IMO I didn't exaggerate that much. TTL has a PoD in late May 1940, so everyone conceived/born before that date will be the same person from OTL. Until the elections of 1976, every POTUS candidate has to be an OTL person. The US are far from Europe, so the butterfly effect won't hit them that hard. Many things will be the same as IOTL: Reagan will still be a great communicator. Nixon will still be a big crook. Kissinger will still be cunning. Joseph P. Kennedy will still try to make the one or other son of him POTUS. The Forbes family will be still rich. (TTL Forbes won't be the Steve Forbes who went into politics, but his ATL brother. Theoretically, his father may even marry and impregnate a different woman.) Perot will still start to use the name "Ross" in honor of his dead older brother. And much more.
It is possible that someone who was a nobody IOTL makes it, but then - how often does that happen IOTL?
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stevep
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Post by stevep on Apr 16, 2024 15:36:28 GMT
It depends on how realistic you want the TL to be but I would say that 50+ years after such dramatic changes your likely to see few names from OTL politics in play. Know it makes it easier to have OTL prominent figures for reader recognition but just to say.
Well... I see your point, but IMO I didn't exaggerate that much. TTL has a PoD in late May 1940, so everyone conceived/born before that date will be the same person from OTL. Until the elections of 1976, every POTUS candidate has to be an OTL person. The US are far from Europe, so the butterfly effect won't hit them that hard. Many things will be the same as IOTL: Reagan will still be a great communicator. Nixon will still be a big crook. Kissinger will still be cunning. Joseph P. Kennedy will still try to make the one or other son of him POTUS. The Forbes family will be still rich. (TTL Forbes won't be the Steve Forbes who went into politics, but his ATL brother. Theoretically, his father may even marry and impregnate a different woman.) Perot will still start to use the name "Ross" in honor of his dead older brother. And much more.
It is possible that someone who was a nobody IOTL makes it, but then - how often does that happen IOTL?
Not often but in the US at least a lot of people and their descendants are going to survive WWII unlike OTL and a lot of other people will have their careers affected. For instance MacArthur is likely to remain a minor figure who retires totally before 1950 and people who made their reputation, or had it shattered by the OTL war will be numerous.
Also with democracy on the edge of extinction and two large murderous totalitarian empires dominating most of the world that will hugely affect the view of the world in the US and even more so in the rest of the world. How does the US react to this challenge? Does it go fairly autocratic and highly militaristic itself as people believe that's needed to survive which would mean a hell of a lot of political and social changes, or try and go more liberal with similarly dramatic effects? Nixon might or might not get caught out here, Reagan might end up force to resign or even jailed instead? Kissinger could fail to be a significant figure especially if possibly Jews are treated drastically differently in TTL US. Joe Kennedy will want one of his children to be President but that could well not happen. A lot of people who left Europe for the US during or after WWII OTL may well not do here. One obvious example would be Wernher von Braun who is very unlikely to be active in the US rocketry systems.
In terms of other people emerging one example from ~50 years earlier would be Teddy Roosevelt. But for a charge up an hill in Cuba he could have ended up a minor member of a wealthy family or even have died in Cuba. Either from disease say or I have read that he was damned luck with that charge as the Spanish forces defending the hill had been supplied with the wrong ammo for their guns else the Rough Riders could have been slaughtered. Which even if Teddy survived he could end up as a figure of ridicule.
I'm not saying change everything but there will be significant changes occurring even by my life-time - born in late 1959, even in the US. For instance would Ike become a significant military leader let alone a president without the OTL US involvement in the war in Europe and that war ending successfully, which it won't do here?
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Post by Max Sinister on Apr 16, 2024 22:54:19 GMT
Well... I see your point, but IMO I didn't exaggerate that much. TTL has a PoD in late May 1940, so everyone conceived/born before that date will be the same person from OTL. Until the elections of 1976, every POTUS candidate has to be an OTL person. The US are far from Europe, so the butterfly effect won't hit them that hard. Many things will be the same as IOTL: Reagan will still be a great communicator. Nixon will still be a big crook. Kissinger will still be cunning. Joseph P. Kennedy will still try to make the one or other son of him POTUS. The Forbes family will be still rich. (TTL Forbes won't be the Steve Forbes who went into politics, but his ATL brother. Theoretically, his father may even marry and impregnate a different woman.) Perot will still start to use the name "Ross" in honor of his dead older brother. And much more.
It is possible that someone who was a nobody IOTL makes it, but then - how often does that happen IOTL?
Not often but in the US at least a lot of people and their descendants are going to survive WWII unlike OTL and a lot of other people will have their careers affected. For instance MacArthur is likely to remain a minor figure who retires totally before 1950 and people who made their reputation, or had it shattered by the OTL war will be numerous.
Also with democracy on the edge of extinction and two large murderous totalitarian empires dominating most of the world that will hugely affect the view of the world in the US and even more so in the rest of the world. How does the US react to this challenge? Does it go fairly autocratic and highly militaristic itself as people believe that's needed to survive which would mean a hell of a lot of political and social changes, or try and go more liberal with similarly dramatic effects? Nixon might or might not get caught out here, Reagan might end up force to resign or even jailed instead? Kissinger could fail to be a significant figure especially if possibly Jews are treated drastically differently in TTL US. Joe Kennedy will want one of his children to be President but that could well not happen. A lot of people who left Europe for the US during or after WWII OTL may well not do here. One obvious example would be Wernher von Braun who is very unlikely to be active in the US rocketry systems.
In terms of other people emerging one example from ~50 years earlier would be Teddy Roosevelt. But for a charge up an hill in Cuba he could have ended up a minor member of a wealthy family or even have died in Cuba. Either from disease say or I have read that he was damned luck with that charge as the Spanish forces defending the hill had been supplied with the wrong ammo for their guns else the Rough Riders could have been slaughtered. Which even if Teddy survived he could end up as a figure of ridicule.
I'm not saying change everything but there will be significant changes occurring even by my life-time - born in late 1959, even in the US. For instance would Ike become a significant military leader let alone a president without the OTL US involvement in the war in Europe and that war ending successfully, which it won't do here?
That's a lot of good questions, but for the moment, I'm still working on the question how to fix the premise without too much cheating. If I don't find a way, all of your questions are moot anyway. Sorry, have to concentrate on this first.
Currently, the Wehrmacht is a bit stronger, advancing here and there a bit more, making a few more kills and PoWs... but that doesn't add up to a victory in the East. Not yet, anyway.
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Post by Max Sinister on Apr 17, 2024 10:10:49 GMT
Some more details about Silver Fox. Still not finished - the Wehrmacht has advanced a bit further, or at least been faster. Still doesn't suffice. In August, Frolov got some new troops. If he'll need more in future, he'd better hope that "comrade" Stalin can spare them from somewhere else, because Karelia and Kola (which only have a few hundred thousand inhabitants) should be pretty much bled dry.
- Platinum fox: They've crossed Ura river and are standing at Lake Kilpyavr in August. 30 more kms (20 miles) to Murmansk. Not close enough yet for artillery. Should be realistic IMO, since Dietl has the additional 702nd Infantry division (from Mecklenburg/Pomerania). They're guarding his rear (so landings of battalions in his back can be fought off), build roads (well, paths) and make sure his men get their supplies. IOTL two thirds of his Gebirgsjäger had to do this task. Which means he had maybe one regiment and a half (if I'm generous) against two full Soviet divisions. ITTL it's four German against six Soviet regiments - this should allow them to advance somewhat. I don't think that German commander was right when he said that one German soldier equalled five Russians, but they should have some advantage. Also, IOTL their plans to advance got lost on July 10th after crossing the Litsa - I think I'm not too generous if this won't happen here, for their advantegeous circumstances.
- Arctic fox: In early August, the Soviets are standing at the Voyta line near Lake Verman. 80 more kms to Kandalaksha by road.
- Siilasvuo: His rear is guarded by the additional 196th division from West Prussia. Currently standing at Uhtua (today, Kalevala) and Kestenga. 60 more kms to the railroad, at Lou(k)hi.
Under these circumstances, Frolov will throw most of the new division he got to Murmansk, and the rest (maybe one brigade) in Siilasvuo's way. Let's hope for him that he won't have made a mistake with this.
Now however, Mannerheim decides (since he did something similar IOTL) that he rather wants to have his Finns back in the South, so the one division fighting along the Salla-Kandalaksha line is ordered south.
This will be connected to a reorganization: General Dietl becomes independent from Falkenhorst's Armee Norwegen. From now on, the Finns have the South, and the Germans the North. Only exceptions are Siilasvuo's IIIrd Corps and the one German division in the South.
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Post by Max Sinister on Apr 21, 2024 0:22:15 GMT
Some important info before I continue: Mannerheim didn't want the Finns to endanger either Leningrad, Murmansk, or the Kirov railway, because he rightly feared that the WAllies wouldn't like that. I think this might still apply even in a TL where Britain lost at Dunkirk. That's why he'll actually order Siilasvuo not to advance further after taking Kestenga and Uhtua, because he deems the Finnish troops (one lone division, albeit against less than one full Soviet division, but they don't know that) not strong enough. Note the words. Siilasvuo isn't pleased, but obeys. During the war, Murmansk is heavily bombed - more than any other Soviet city but Leningrad, in fact. (IOTL Stalingrad too, but the Germans are far from getting to it right now.) Also consider, because this will be important: The population of Soviet Karelia and the Kola peninsula was about 500,000 people. Half of which are women, and a rule of thumb says that in pretty much every society, half of the population will be between 15 and 50 years old. The Soviets had five divisions plus their navy and airforce in Karelia. Sure, some of those will come from other places, but even so, their human reservoir is in danger of running dry, after they'll have to replace losses (higher than IOTL!) and raising more troops (I've given them one division for Murmansk and one brigade against Siilasvuo). But now enough of this intro, let's go to the plan.
(This is based on the assumption that Siilasvuo will obey the letter of Mannerheim's orders, but not the spirit. Which means that he'll take the 6th division and use it for an attack, because now he has enough troops. But after all, he overestimates the Soviets as well. Furthermore, Finns are no Germans - by which I want to say that they're not into blind obedience. And Mannerheim has to care for enough things in the South, and he isn't that young anymore, at 74.) So he develops this plan: (I'll make a map for this, because this might be complicated. Anyone can recommend a good website to make military maps?) A. While the 6th division is transported to him via Salla-Kuusamo-Kestenga (except for a smaller part which is taking the direct way through the forests), his 3rd division attacks the Soviets behind Uhtua, coming as far as Kuusiniemi. Meanwhile, the smaller part of the 3rd is holding the line at Kestenga. B. Some of his troops in the South walked around the Soviets and now attack them from the North. Pyotr Shevchenko, commander of the 54th Rifles, calls for help, but Frolov is pressed at both Murmansk and Kandalaksha, so his underling is on his own. Shevchenko has to make a decision, and since he expects the Finns in the very South, he sends the one brigade he got for reenforcements there, to stop the Finns going further East. This will turn out to be a mistake... just as Siilasvuo had planned... - Since the Soviets at Kestenga are weakened now, Siilasvuo has the refreshed 6th division attack them, while his jääkari (Jaeger) attack them from the North and cut off their road to the East. The northern force of the Soviets is splintered, and the Finns can defeat them with their motti tactics, which Siilasvuo employed so well at the battle of Suomussalmi.
- Shevchenko is in panic now, orders the new brigade to come back North, where they're needed even more, as he thinks now.
- This allows Siilasvuo to attack at Uhtua as well, where he meets just a weakened regiment, which is splintered in the same way.
- And while he's at it, the aimlessly marching brigade mentioned is encircled too.
Result: One Soviet division lost, and the way to the East is free. The Finns advance about 30 kilometers in short time, conquer places like Sosnovyi, Khaykolya and Kepa. Now Frolov panicks too, asks for reinforcements, but sending them from Arkhangelsk would take 20 hours by train alone - if they had them. As a stopgap measure, he even takes some troops holding the line in the southwest at Rukajärvi. Which allows the Finns there to advance too. As a result, Medveshyegorsk/Karhumäki at Lake Onega is lost Months before the time that happened IOTL. Muyeserskiy/Mujejärvi has fallen as well. So far, the railroad hasn't been touched by this. But learning this, the Germans seize the opportunity. Two troops are sent by airplane, somewhat north and south of Louhi, which both have a Schienenwolf (mentioned earlier). Each troop puts one onto the rails, and now they can destroy them faster than a man can walk. The two volunteers (let's call them Johannes and Friedrich) will die on this mission as soon as they face the Soviets (one is killed sitting on his Schienenwolf, the other one when trying to escape), but the mission itself is a success: At least 30 kilometers of rail are unusable now. The Soviet regime tries to suppress the bad news, but they can't stop the railway workers from noticing that some big piece is missing now. As the info spreads, so does the panic... (Sorry if I cut this off now, but it's late here. And as said, the mission succeeded. Let me know if you can find any flaws.) |
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Post by Max Sinister on Apr 24, 2024 19:33:17 GMT
After thinking about it, I'll change some bits, although the result will be the same. Siilasvuo throws the Soviets out of Kuusiniemi, but doesn't go further after encircling them. Maybe even Mannerheim will stop him when he learns (too late) what is going on. Instead, the 169th Wehrmacht division will send some battalions along the road, because the way is free now after all, and reach the railway. At least they'll be blamed for that, not the Finns. They'll still use the Schienenwolf, but don't have to bring them along by plane. Instead they'll peruse it as soon as new Redarmists arrive from the south and threaten to take the railway back.
Here's a map, doesn't look that nice, but I had no better tools:
Brown: Wehrmacht; red: Soviets; green: IIIrd Finnish Corps xx: Division x/: Brigade x: Regiment I, II: Attack at Kuusiniemi, Soviet Brigade goes South A, B: Attack at Kiestengi, Brigade marches back 1, 2: Brigade encircled and destroyed in the forests a, b: Germans march through
Now, the Germans started moving in the North as well. Near Kandalaksha, they reached Lake Nyamozero, near Murmansk their artillery was shooting at Mezhdurechye, the last city before Murmansk. Frolov tried what he could do to mobilize more troops, but his situation reminded of OTL Germany's Volkssturm. There were only 125,000 men between 15 and 50, and most of them had been drafted already. So he had no choice but drafting women, Komsomol youths, and old men up to veterans of the Russo-Japanese War from 1904/05. Except for the railroad workers, pretty much nobody was allowed to shirk the service. Even some Stalinist bureaucrats had to leave their desks and grab an arm. Of course these troops had less worth than the usual redarmist.
September was still full of fights, but these were born of desperation. Soon, the Kirov railway was cut at another place, at Ruchyi north of Louhi, and this time the Wehrmacht soldiers made sure that the Red Army wouldn't take it back. When they marched into Kandalaksha and were able to follow the railway south and reach their hand to Siilasvuo's troops, it was obvious the situation was hopeless for the Soviets. Now, the Finns marched forward south of Louhi as well, reaching the sea near Kem. This gave them all of Karelia.
During the fights for Belomorsk, the 17-year-old First Secretary of the Central Committee of the Karelian Komsomol also died. His name was Yuri Andropov. Frolov and government leader Gennady Kupriyanov were brought by plane further south, but their fate was worse than for many other Soviets: Angry "comrade" Stalin blamed them for losing a whole front and a Soviet republic and had them shot. Now he didn't trust the remaining Karelians in the Red Army anymore, although they fought at other fronts, had them deported to Siberia or Central Asia. Even the major general and Spain veteran Akseli Anttila wasn't spared. Until the end of his life, Stalin even forbade mentioning the word "Karelia".
Otto Wilhelm "Wille" Kuusinen, during the Winter War head of the planned Finnish Soviet satellite government was caught by the Finns, who first mocked him as a wannabe Dictator of Finland, but then put him into court for his anti-Finnish activities where he got the capital punishment. His short-time deputy Mauritz Rosenberg fell into the hands of the Waffen-SS, who mistook him for Jewish because of his name and seriously mistreated him, before he died in their hands.
With the defeat of the Red Army in Karelia, a whole Front of the Soviets had broken down. It was just one of nine fronts and the one with the fewest troops by far, but the symbolic effect was big, both in the Axis countries and the Soviet Union. They became aware only slowly of the real meaning of the operation (in 1941, the harbor of Murmansk wasn't ready yet for convoys; Stalin even ask why the Brits couldn't just deliver to Arkhangelsk instead), but people in the Anglosphere saw the Situation more clearly. As Churchill commented: "That fool Stalin has allowed the Nazis to close the door of his house in his face!" The Plans for the PQ convoys had to be scrapped now. Helping the Soviet union with deliveries from the sheer unexhaustible sources of the USA would become much more difficult now. In Winter, the other big harbor at the Arctic Ocean, Archangelsk, would be frozen for months. This left them two open ways: Via Iran (but they had invaded it as late as August, and it'd take Months until the railroad network there would be ready); alternatively, via Vladivostok at the Pacific Ocean. If only the Japanese did nothing...
The arctic fleet of the Soviets now had the choice to either stay in Arkhangelsk where the ice would render it useless for months or going a long way around the Cape to be used somewhere else. But where?
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Post by Max Sinister on Apr 24, 2024 21:43:49 GMT
OK, and this is a statistical distribution diagram I made to demonstrate the idea behind TTL. If the center is OTL, we have in the left half ATLs where the nazis lose quicker and higher than IOTL, and in the right half ATLs where they are more successful. The tiny segment on the far right (heh) would be TLs like this one (if I'm successful with it) where they actually win and survive for at least 20 years.
According to my estimate, I'm about halfway through the war. So they still need to roll some sixes. Let's see.
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