melanie
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Post by melanie on Mar 28, 2022 13:52:18 GMT
You wake up as Tsar Boris III of Bulgaria, exactly ten years before his OTL death, so you wake up in his body on the morning of August 28, 1933. You have Boris's memories and skills as well as your own memories and skills. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boris_III_of_Bulgaria |
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stevep
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Post by stevep on Mar 28, 2022 14:55:45 GMT
You wake up as Tsar Boris III of Bulgaria, exactly ten years before his OTL death, so you wake up in his body on the morning of August 28, 1933. You have Boris's memories and skills as well as your own memories and skills. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boris_III_of_Bulgaria
That is going to be interesting and also challenging. Not sure if attempting to arrange an assassination is practical? [Hopefully I don't need to say of whom.] If not try and strengthen Bulgaria as much as possible and possibly encourage economic and technological development and also subtly encourage the western powers to oppose Hitler earlier. Possibly seek to improve relations with neighbours. However Bulgaria, for all its actions in the Balkan wars and WWI is only a minor power militarily and economically.
Plus of course the removal of Hitler wouldn't remove the Nazis at least in the short term and could end up with an even more chaotic situation.
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lordroel
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Post by lordroel on Mar 28, 2022 14:57:40 GMT
You wake up as Tsar Boris III of Bulgaria, exactly ten years before his OTL death, so you wake up in his body on the morning of August 28, 1933. You have Boris's memories and skills as well as your own memories and skills. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boris_III_of_BulgariaWell first thing to make sure, be careful what you eat ore drink, you might end up with a hart atack. |
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melanie
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Post by melanie on Mar 28, 2022 15:08:12 GMT
stevep, lordroel,When you wake up as Tsar Boris III, it is August 28, 1933. Hitler has only recently come to power (the previous January). The Night of the Long Knives hasn't happened yet. Reich President Paul von Hindenberg is still alive. Boris III at this point is known as something of an Anglophile and there is a pro-British faction in the royal family and Bulgarian government which can be used in talks between Sofia and London.
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lordroel
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Post by lordroel on Mar 28, 2022 15:13:56 GMT
stevep, lordroel,When you wake up as Tsar Boris III, it is August 28, 1933. Hitler has only recently come to power (the previous January). The Night of the Long Knives hasn't happened yet. Reich President Paul von Hindenberg is still alive. Boris III at this point is known as something of an Anglophile and there is a pro-British faction in the royal family and Bulgarian government which can be used in talks between Sofia and London. A my bad, was thinking about 1943. Well i need to see how neutral can i make Bulgaria. |
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stevep
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Post by stevep on Mar 28, 2022 15:27:27 GMT
stevep , lordroel ,When you wake up as Tsar Boris III, it is August 28, 1933. Hitler has only recently come to power (the previous January). The Night of the Long Knives hasn't happened yet. Reich President Paul von Hindenberg is still alive. Boris III at this point is known as something of an Anglophile and there is a pro-British faction in the royal family and Bulgarian government which can be used in talks between Sofia and London.
True but its still very much a minor player, even in Europe. Plus you can't start making statements about what Hitler will do as you will simply be locked up as insane. Hindenberg is still alive but elderly and doesn't have much time left. Its going to be difficult with no real influence in Germany to avoid Hitler gaining the Presidency once Hindenberg dies.
Even an assassination attempt would be difficult, not just in it not being traced back to you but that some people, in your own government probably will have to know and will be wondering why the hell your going to such an extreme and illegal attempt to remove what's still seen as a rogue figure.
Britain is still deeply locked into a disarmament mentality and the cut, cut, cut response to the depression that did so much damage to its society and economy. You need good relations with neighbours to have any influence but given the territories lost in WWI Romania, Greece and Yugoslavia are likely to be somewhat unwilling to trust you. Plus if Nazi Germany still gains influence as it did OTL once the war starts your very exposed if you do anything other than what Boris did OTL in very limited resistance to their demands and that might have resulted in his death.
If things do go that closely to OTL then other than refusing to join the Axis, which is likely to see Bulgaria invaded or a coup attempt against you, the only thing would be to try and help any Jews that can reach you get away. However Britain blocked a movement to Palestine OTL and not sure what other options would be practical. Possibly persuading Turkey to provide refuge for them but I wouldn't be surprised if that was attempted OTL.
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lordroel
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Post by lordroel on Mar 28, 2022 15:30:09 GMT
stevep , lordroel ,When you wake up as Tsar Boris III, it is August 28, 1933. Hitler has only recently come to power (the previous January). The Night of the Long Knives hasn't happened yet. Reich President Paul von Hindenberg is still alive. Boris III at this point is known as something of an Anglophile and there is a pro-British faction in the royal family and Bulgarian government which can be used in talks between Sofia and London. True but its still very much a minor player, even in Europe. Plus you can't start making statements about what Hitler will do as you will simply be locked up as insane. Hindenberg is still alive but elderly and doesn't have much time left. Its going to be difficult with no real influence in Germany to avoid Hitler gaining the Presidency once Hindenberg dies.
Even an assassination attempt would be difficult, not just in it not being traced back to you but that some people, in your own government probably will have to know and will be wondering why the hell your going to such an extreme and illegal attempt to remove what's still seen as a rogue figure. Britain is still deeply locked into a disarmament mentality and the cut, cut, cut response to the depression that did so much damage to its society and economy. You need good relations with neighbours to have any influence but given the territories lost in WWI Romania, Greece and Yugoslavia are likely to be somewhat unwilling to trust you. Plus if Nazi Germany still gains influence as it did OTL once the war starts your very exposed if you do anything other than what Boris did OTL in very limited resistance to their demands and that might have resulted in his death.
If things do go that closely to OTL then other than refusing to join the Axis, which is likely to see Bulgaria invaded or a coup attempt against you, the only thing would be to try and help any Jews that can reach you get away. However Britain blocked a movement to Palestine OTL and not sure what other options would be practical. Possibly persuading Turkey to provide refuge for them but I wouldn't be surprised if that was attempted OTL.
We might have instead of the The Foresight War, Foresight Bulgaria. Not going to change history but try to prepare your country as best as you can, either with the Axis, Allies ore Neutral. |
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miletus12
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Post by miletus12 on Mar 28, 2022 16:54:54 GMT
You wake up as Tsar Boris III of Bulgaria, exactly ten years before his OTL death, so you wake up in his body on the morning of August 28, 1933. You have Boris's memories and skills as well as your own memories and skills. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boris_III_of_BulgariaImpossible situation. The geography, resource base and confused political situation make neutrality the only viable option. Avoid Mussolini's and Hitler's medical professionals and try to stay on good terms with Rumania and Yugoslavia (Tito). One will need friends when the Russians show up. |
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Post by lordroel on Mar 28, 2022 18:23:52 GMT
You wake up as Tsar Boris III of Bulgaria, exactly ten years before his OTL death, so you wake up in his body on the morning of August 28, 1933. You have Boris's memories and skills as well as your own memories and skills. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boris_III_of_BulgariaImpossible situation. The geography, resource base and confused political situation make neutrality the only viable option. Avoid Mussolini's and Hitler's medical professionals and try to stay on good terms with Rumania and Yugoslavia (Tito). One will need friends when the Russians show up. Also Bulgaria has to comply with the Treaty of Neuilly-sur-Seine, which make clear that Bulgaria has no right to organize a conscription-based military. The professional army to be no more than 20,000 men, including internal forces and border guards. And equipping the army with tanks, submarines, bombers and heavy artillery strictly prohibited. |
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melanie
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Post by melanie on Mar 28, 2022 22:29:58 GMT
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Post by lordroel on Mar 29, 2022 0:06:15 GMT
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miletus12
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Post by miletus12 on Mar 29, 2022 0:17:55 GMT
stevep , lordroel , miletus12 , I’m sorry. Bulgaria isn’t usually used in ISOT’s or SI. I was trying to be innovative. Nothing wrong with making people think inside a box, making them try to get out of it. AMOF I am trying to figure out a Bulgarian triple cross. |
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stevep
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Post by stevep on Mar 29, 2022 15:15:30 GMT
stevep , lordroel , miletus12 , I’m sorry. Bulgaria isn’t usually used in ISOT’s or SI. I was trying to be innovative.
No problem at all. As miletus12, says it makes us think outside the box and its a hell of a challenge. If Bulgaria can stay neutral then it has a chance of surviving as an independent state and a non-communist one but I doubt its going to greatly affect the source of the war. A bit like the initial ideas for an ISOT with Nantucket as a very small resource base but they had a massive tech advantage over everybody around them, which is lacking here.
Although it would change things in the Balkans if Bulgaria stays neutral in terms of the German invasion of Greece. Greece will still fall but without Bulgaria as an attack base it will take longer, especially if you can persuade the Greeks your not going to attack that might mean they guard the frontier with Yugoslavia a bit more and cause somewhat more German causalities. However staying neutral while Germany looks so dominate will be risky and also means giving up the lands they OTL gained from Yugoslavia, Romania and Greece so could make you unpopular at home and possibly vulnerable to a coup.
Once the war starts, assuming the invasion of Poland happens then a) I can't see any 1919 restrictions applying then with a full scale war going on even if their being complied with until then. Of course this also means that you have very little chance of purchasing equipment from anywhere without strings being attached. b) Once Poland falls then Romania is devoid of local allies and once France falls its forced into German hands because of its fear of both the Soviets and also Hungary plus Germany is very, very interested in Romanian oil so its not going to stay neutral.
c) Tito, apart from being a minor figure at the moment is a Croatian communist who is unlikely to be an ally even if he becomes powerful in Yugoslavia as OTL. Plus he's unlikely to stick his neck out with Stalin to save a conservative monarchy from the Red army.
Its possible that you could try and influence the Serbs not to mount the coup that overthrows the regent Paul or the British not to send forces into Greece - which gives a chance of Libya being liberated before Mussolini asks for and receives supplies but how to do that without being identified - which is likely to prompt a violent German response in the latter case - would be difficult.
Similarly with other up time knowledge. Bulgaria lacks the technological base to design any significant weaponry or other equipment or the industry to produce them. You can try getting important ideas to people, say certain allied leaders but you need to do that in a way that: a) Won't be traced back to you - at least while the German army is dominating Europe and
b) Will be believable to whoever its targeted at.
Both of those would be difficult unless your confident you can prevent the fall of France, which would give you more breathing room. The other problem of course is that when things start changing that reduces the value of your information as you can't rely on many things happening as they do.
There is a darker option that might be a lot easier. Doing what you can to help the Nazis with a few key touches. However even then ensuring the defeat of the Soviets - which could be hard - doesn't secure safety for you and your country. The sheer insanity of the Nazis could mean they either still lose or for whatever reason decide to get rid of you. Plus that would a route that anyone with a conscience would have problems with to put it mildly.
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lordroel
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Post by lordroel on Mar 29, 2022 15:25:09 GMT
stevep , lordroel , miletus12 , I’m sorry. Bulgaria isn’t usually used in ISOT’s or SI. I was trying to be innovative. No problem at all. As miletus12, says it makes us think outside the box and its a hell of a challenge. If Bulgaria can stay neutral then it has a chance of surviving as an independent state and a non-communist one but I doubt its going to greatly affect the source of the war. A bit like the initial ideas for an ISOT with Nantucket as a very small resource base but they had a massive tech advantage over everybody around them, which is lacking here. Although it would change things in the Balkans if Bulgaria stays neutral in terms of the German invasion of Greece. Greece will still fall but without Bulgaria as an attack base it will take longer, especially if you can persuade the Greeks your not going to attack that might mean they guard the frontier with Yugoslavia a bit more and cause somewhat more German causalities. However staying neutral while Germany looks so dominate will be risky and also means giving up the lands they OTL gained from Yugoslavia, Romania and Greece so could make you unpopular at home and possibly vulnerable to a coup. Once the war starts, assuming the invasion of Poland happens then a) I can't see any 1919 restrictions applying then with a full scale war going on even if their being complied with until then. Of course this also means that you have very little chance of purchasing equipment from anywhere without strings being attached. b) Once Poland falls then Romania is devoid of local allies and once France falls its forced into German hands because of its fear of both the Soviets and also Hungary plus Germany is very, very interested in Romanian oil so its not going to stay neutral.
c) Tito, apart from being a minor figure at the moment is a Croatian communist who is unlikely to be an ally even if he becomes powerful in Yugoslavia as OTL. Plus he's unlikely to stick his neck out with Stalin to save a conservative monarchy from the Red army. Its possible that you could try and influence the Serbs not to mount the coup that overthrows the regent Paul or the British not to send forces into Greece - which gives a chance of Libya being liberated before Mussolini asks for and receives supplies but how to do that without being identified - which is likely to prompt a violent German response in the latter case - would be difficult. Similarly with other up time knowledge. Bulgaria lacks the technological base to design any significant weaponry or other equipment or the industry to produce them. You can try getting important ideas to people, say certain allied leaders but you need to do that in a way that: a) Won't be traced back to you - at least while the German army is dominating Europe and
b) Will be believable to whoever its targeted at.
Both of those would be difficult unless your confident you can prevent the fall of France, which would give you more breathing room. The other problem of course is that when things start changing that reduces the value of your information as you can't rely on many things happening as they do. There is a darker option that might be a lot easier. Doing what you can to help the Nazis with a few key touches. However even then ensuring the defeat of the Soviets - which could be hard - doesn't secure safety for you and your country. The sheer insanity of the Nazis could mean they either still lose or for whatever reason decide to get rid of you. Plus that would a route that anyone with a conscience would have problems with to put it mildly.
Well Bulgaria always can go-Pro British and try to claim they need to rearm in order to defend themselves, if it works, i do not know. |
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stevep
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Post by stevep on Mar 29, 2022 15:31:40 GMT
No problem at all. As miletus12 , says it makes us think outside the box and its a hell of a challenge. If Bulgaria can stay neutral then it has a chance of surviving as an independent state and a non-communist one but I doubt its going to greatly affect the source of the war. A bit like the initial ideas for an ISOT with Nantucket as a very small resource base but they had a massive tech advantage over everybody around them, which is lacking here. Although it would change things in the Balkans if Bulgaria stays neutral in terms of the German invasion of Greece. Greece will still fall but without Bulgaria as an attack base it will take longer, especially if you can persuade the Greeks your not going to attack that might mean they guard the frontier with Yugoslavia a bit more and cause somewhat more German causalities. However staying neutral while Germany looks so dominate will be risky and also means giving up the lands they OTL gained from Yugoslavia, Romania and Greece so could make you unpopular at home and possibly vulnerable to a coup. Once the war starts, assuming the invasion of Poland happens then a) I can't see any 1919 restrictions applying then with a full scale war going on even if their being complied with until then. Of course this also means that you have very little chance of purchasing equipment from anywhere without strings being attached. b) Once Poland falls then Romania is devoid of local allies and once France falls its forced into German hands because of its fear of both the Soviets and also Hungary plus Germany is very, very interested in Romanian oil so its not going to stay neutral.
c) Tito, apart from being a minor figure at the moment is a Croatian communist who is unlikely to be an ally even if he becomes powerful in Yugoslavia as OTL. Plus he's unlikely to stick his neck out with Stalin to save a conservative monarchy from the Red army. Its possible that you could try and influence the Serbs not to mount the coup that overthrows the regent Paul or the British not to send forces into Greece - which gives a chance of Libya being liberated before Mussolini asks for and receives supplies but how to do that without being identified - which is likely to prompt a violent German response in the latter case - would be difficult. Similarly with other up time knowledge. Bulgaria lacks the technological base to design any significant weaponry or other equipment or the industry to produce them. You can try getting important ideas to people, say certain allied leaders but you need to do that in a way that: a) Won't be traced back to you - at least while the German army is dominating Europe and
b) Will be believable to whoever its targeted at.
Both of those would be difficult unless your confident you can prevent the fall of France, which would give you more breathing room. The other problem of course is that when things start changing that reduces the value of your information as you can't rely on many things happening as they do. There is a darker option that might be a lot easier. Doing what you can to help the Nazis with a few key touches. However even then ensuring the defeat of the Soviets - which could be hard - doesn't secure safety for you and your country. The sheer insanity of the Nazis could mean they either still lose or for whatever reason decide to get rid of you. Plus that would a route that anyone with a conscience would have problems with to put it mildly.
Well Bulgaria always can go-Pro British and try to claim they need to rearm in order to defend themselves, if it works, i do not know.
The problem is that Britain has relatively little to spare as its rearming frantically. Plus it puts you high on Hitler's hit list - doubly so as your very close to the Romanian oilfields. Unless you can avoid the fall of France and collapse of the western democracies on the continent, which will leave you defenseless against the Germans and/or your neighbours with German prompting. Bulgaria is reliant on communications through the straits so isn't in a position to be easily aided even if the western powers are in a position to send help in enough force which they aren't for most of the war.
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