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Post by Alexsander on Mar 2, 2022 20:24:50 GMT
Good morning forum members, first of all, let me introduce myself: I am new to this exciting world of alternative history, but the idea of creating an alternative Europe, which would take place between 1930 and 1950, has been around for a long time.
I CLARIFY that I am not English but Spanish, so excuse me if I make any spelling errors.
My goal is to upload the flags, maps, posters, and other things that I create for this story, I will also upload parts of the story that I am imagining (it will include a war and similar things), I accept and ask that any idea that you have, you can tell me that I would accept it. It would also be nice if you want to re-do some of the flags, maps or anything else I upload.
This story is going to include real people and fictitious characters; every day I'm going to upload a kind of "technical file" of each country, and so you are familiarizing yourself with what I want to do.
I hope it was clear and I hope you like it and improve this project that I am attached to.
PS: I put the year 1937 because it is the hinge year in history, since a war would break out in Europe and other regions of the world.
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Post by Alexsander on Mar 2, 2022 21:07:54 GMT
Tercer República Española Nacional-Sindicalista.
 Religion: Catholicism. Currency: Nueva Peseta Española (New Spanish Peseta). Policy: One-party totalitarian. After Ramiro Ledesma and Onesimo Redondo created the National-Syndicalist thought, Spanish society underwent a resounding transformation. José Antonio Primo de Rivera created the J.O.N.S. which functioned as the armed wing of the Spanish Falange party. On October 13, 1930 part of the Spanish army revolted, its objective was to take control of the Government and impose a totalitarian state, but with the right to elect the President; The uprising did not have the support of the J.O.N.S., since Primo de Rivera thought that the only real way to take power and obtain the support of the people was through legislative and democratic ways. The rebels managed to take some important cities but failed to take Madrid and Burgos; Given this, the Government of the Republic counter-attacked and after 2 years managed to suffocate the revolutionary soldiers. The government of the Republic accepted, in 1931, the help and supplies sent by France, Great Britain and Switzerland. In contrast, the rebels did not receive any help and did not ask other countries for support in their case. This was probably the reason for the defeat of the military and the triumph of the Republic. On November 20, 1932, it was decided to judge those responsible for the uprising, in this way Francisco Franco, Emilio Mola, José Calvo Sotelo, José Sanjurjo, Gonzalo Queipo de Llano, Manuel Goded, among other hierarchies, were shot and removed from the political field. With the war over and the rebels shot, the Spanish people looked for a leader to guide them in those times of economic (the war had meant a great expense for the Republic) and social. Faced with this need, the Falangist list was imposed in the general elections of 1933; Primo de Rivera was elected as head of the Republic and his ministry and politics were carried out by the "Junta Política de Falange". Primo de Rivera renamed the country the "Third National-Syndicalist Spanish Republic" and it would have a vital importance in the 1937 War, since the 1935 Invasion of Andorra was the prelude to the tensions that would be generated later.  Primo de Rivera giving his inauguration speech; October 8, 1933.Although Primo de Rivera did not support the 1930 uprising, he did use it for political campaigning. He used those who were shot as revolutionary martyrs, renamed cities and towns with the names of the revolutionary officers, and included 7 stars in the flag and national coat of arms. These stars symbolize an emblematic battle of the 1930 War. 1st Star (left): Taking of Seville. 2nd Star (left): Taking of Salamanca. 3rd Star (left): Fallen in the attempt to take Burgos 4th Star (Center): The fallen heroes in Madrid. 5th Star (right): Taking of Soria. 6th Star (right): Taking of Bilbao. 7th Star (right): The heroic capture of Murcia.
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Post by Alexsander on Mar 2, 2022 21:34:07 GMT
After the imprisonment of Benito Mussolini in 1937, Italo Balbo seized power in the Kingdom of Italy. His expansionist policy was based on Africa, and by 1940 they already had more than 60% of the territory of the continent. A special division of the Partito Nazionale Fascista in Africa was created, which was in charge of the administration of the territories and the printing and dissemination of propaganda, as well as the export, control and other matters of the Italian African territories. In total, the "Direzione Africana del P.N.F." had 52 sub-divisions and secretaries.  Post card advertising Italian expansionism in Africa.The creation of a highway that united all the colonial territories was also commissioned, this route would be called "Linea Balbinica" or "Linea Internazionale", it took 2 years to build. Quickly Africa became a tourist spot for Italians, in turn, the African territory and its capitals were greatly improved and became beacons of "Italian fascist triumph" in Africa. Balbo would die at 87 and leave Italy in a great political crisis, since his leadership and management were irreplaceable.  The 13 territories that made up the Italian domain in Africa.
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stevep
Fleet admiral
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Post by stevep on Mar 3, 2022 22:54:48 GMT
After the imprisonment of Benito Mussolini in 1937, Italo Balbo seized power in the Kingdom of Italy. His expansionist policy was based on Africa, and by 1940 they already had more than 60% of the territory of the continent. A special division of the Partito Nazionale Fascista in Africa was created, which was in charge of the administration of the territories and the printing and dissemination of propaganda, as well as the export, control and other matters of the Italian African territories. In total, the "Direzione Africana del P.N.F." had 52 sub-divisions and secretaries. <button disabled="" class="c-attachment-insert--linked o-btn--sm">Attachment Deleted</button> Post card advertising Italian expansionism in Africa.The creation of a highway that united all the colonial territories was also commissioned, this route would be called "Linea Balbinica" or "Linea Internazionale", it took 2 years to build. Quickly Africa became a tourist spot for Italians, in turn, the African territory and its capitals were greatly improved and became beacons of "Italian fascist triumph" in Africa. Balbo would die at 87 and leave Italy in a great political crisis, since his leadership and management were irreplaceable. <button disabled="" class="c-attachment-insert--linked o-btn--sm">Attachment Deleted</button> The 13 territories that made up the Italian domain in Africa.
Things are going to have to go very badly for the allied powers and very good for the Italians, especially with effectively a 1937 POD for them to have any chance of such gains by 1940. Both in terms of the importance of many of the colonies Italy is securing control of, such as Algeria, Egypt, Nigeria, British E Africa and the Belgium Congo and the sheer logistics is going to be challenging to reach those regions even without major opposition. Especially since Italy is unlikely to get any significant support from Germany as its own interests will be elsewhere.
You seem to have a kind of victory for republicanism in Spain against an early coup by the more extreme units, then de Rivera using support that seems to emerge for the defeated fascists to gain power himself?
It seems like a grim world because the only way we could really get such massive Italian gains would be a big victory for the fascist powers, which isn't going to be good at all for anybody who comes under their rule, which is likely to be a lot of people. Especially if Italo Balbo lasts until ~1983 which suggests that fascism of some form survived in Italy that long. However have to see how things develop.
Anyway welcome to the board.
Steve
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Post by Alexsander on Mar 4, 2022 2:33:51 GMT
After the imprisonment of Benito Mussolini in 1937, Italo Balbo seized power in the Kingdom of Italy. His expansionist policy was based on Africa, and by 1940 they already had more than 60% of the territory of the continent. A special division of the Partito Nazionale Fascista in Africa was created, which was in charge of the administration of the territories and the printing and dissemination of propaganda, as well as the export, control and other matters of the Italian African territories. In total, the "Direzione Africana del P.N.F." had 52 sub-divisions and secretaries. <button disabled="" class="c-attachment-insert--linked o-btn--sm">Attachment Deleted</button> Post card advertising Italian expansionism in Africa.The creation of a highway that united all the colonial territories was also commissioned, this route would be called "Linea Balbinica" or "Linea Internazionale", it took 2 years to build. Quickly Africa became a tourist spot for Italians, in turn, the African territory and its capitals were greatly improved and became beacons of "Italian fascist triumph" in Africa. Balbo would die at 87 and leave Italy in a great political crisis, since his leadership and management were irreplaceable. <button disabled="" class="c-attachment-insert--linked o-btn--sm">Attachment Deleted</button> The 13 territories that made up the Italian domain in Africa.
Things are going to have to go very badly for the allied powers and very good for the Italians, especially with effectively a 1937 POD for them to have any chance of such gains by 1940. Both in terms of the importance of many of the colonies Italy is securing control of, such as Algeria, Egypt, Nigeria, British E Africa and the Belgium Congo and the sheer logistics is going to be challenging to reach those regions even without major opposition. Especially since Italy is unlikely to get any significant support from Germany as its own interests will be elsewhere.
You seem to have a kind of victory for republicanism in Spain against an early coup by the more extreme units, then de Rivera using support that seems to emerge for the defeated fascists to gain power himself?
It seems like a grim world because the only way we could really get such massive Italian gains would be a big victory for the fascist powers, which isn't going to be good at all for anybody who comes under their rule, which is likely to be a lot of people. Especially if Italo Balbo lasts until ~1983 which suggests that fascism of some form survived in Italy that long. However have to see how things develop.
Anyway welcome to the board.
Steve
Hello and thanks for the interest in my post! Let's go by parts. In Spain a kind of semi-fascist Republic would govern, that is, for the whole world Spain is a republican state but with a fixed and ineligible government; Primo de Rivera always interested me as a historical figure and I found it interesting to see how he would have developed in charge of a government if he had not been shot. In real life, Primo de Rivera was a very complex man, he did not consider himself to be a fascist but he was not a socialist either, he did not believe in political parties but he did not divert government institutions (such as the Senate or the Courts) either, I believe that if he had had power or a government, it would have merged with part of the left and the right to make a coalition government. That is what I want to exploit in this story, a Primo de Rivera who tries to please everyone, but cannot and that is why he creates the "Junta Técnica". On the other hand, Italy would have all that expansionism in Africa not so much because of the war but because of the treaties, that is, Balbo would use his personality to make agreements with the governments of those territories and thus annex them, but maintaining a kind of autonomous government for each one. Balbo would govern Italy with a government that was fascist only in name, because he would open democratic institutions, support the elections and the strikes; but he would retain the ideals of fascism such as state control, expansionism, and nationalism. I also want to clarify that World War II never happened in this universe, nor did the Axis Powers or the Allies. Anyway, I am still working on this story and I will surely change some dates and facts, but keeping 1937 as the central axis. |
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stevep
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Post by stevep on Mar 4, 2022 18:10:12 GMT
Things are going to have to go very badly for the allied powers and very good for the Italians, especially with effectively a 1937 POD for them to have any chance of such gains by 1940. Both in terms of the importance of many of the colonies Italy is securing control of, such as Algeria, Egypt, Nigeria, British E Africa and the Belgium Congo and the sheer logistics is going to be challenging to reach those regions even without major opposition. Especially since Italy is unlikely to get any significant support from Germany as its own interests will be elsewhere.
You seem to have a kind of victory for republicanism in Spain against an early coup by the more extreme units, then de Rivera using support that seems to emerge for the defeated fascists to gain power himself?
It seems like a grim world because the only way we could really get such massive Italian gains would be a big victory for the fascist powers, which isn't going to be good at all for anybody who comes under their rule, which is likely to be a lot of people. Especially if Italo Balbo lasts until ~1983 which suggests that fascism of some form survived in Italy that long. However have to see how things develop.
Anyway welcome to the board.
Steve
Hello and thanks for the interest in my post! Let's go by parts. In Spain a kind of semi-fascist Republic would govern, that is, for the whole world Spain is a republican state but with a fixed and ineligible government; Primo de Rivera always interested me as a historical figure and I found it interesting to see how he would have developed in charge of a government if he had not been shot. In real life, Primo de Rivera was a very complex man, he did not consider himself to be a fascist but he was not a socialist either, he did not believe in political parties but he did not divert government institutions (such as the Senate or the Courts) either, I believe that if he had had power or a government, it would have merged with part of the left and the right to make a coalition government. That is what I want to exploit in this story, a Primo de Rivera who tries to please everyone, but cannot and that is why he creates the "Junta Técnica". On the other hand, Italy would have all that expansionism in Africa not so much because of the war but because of the treaties, that is, Balbo would use his personality to make agreements with the governments of those territories and thus annex them, but maintaining a kind of autonomous government for each one. Balbo would govern Italy with a government that was fascist only in name, because he would open democratic institutions, support the elections and the strikes; but he would retain the ideals of fascism such as state control, expansionism, and nationalism. I also want to clarify that World War II never happened in this universe, nor did the Axis Powers or the Allies. Anyway, I am still working on this story and I will surely change some dates and facts, but keeping 1937 as the central axis.
Well that is going to be interesting. With no WWII its going to be a vastly different world. I can't see Italy by 1940 having such territory in Africa because their gaining control of colonies from Britain, France, Spain and Belgium including some very important ones such as Algeria and Egypt. I'm interested to see how you achieve that. Or was the 1940 date a typo?
Steve
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Post by Alexsander on Mar 4, 2022 18:34:44 GMT
Hello and thanks for the interest in my post! Let's go by parts. In Spain a kind of semi-fascist Republic would govern, that is, for the whole world Spain is a republican state but with a fixed and ineligible government; Primo de Rivera always interested me as a historical figure and I found it interesting to see how he would have developed in charge of a government if he had not been shot. In real life, Primo de Rivera was a very complex man, he did not consider himself to be a fascist but he was not a socialist either, he did not believe in political parties but he did not divert government institutions (such as the Senate or the Courts) either, I believe that if he had had power or a government, it would have merged with part of the left and the right to make a coalition government. That is what I want to exploit in this story, a Primo de Rivera who tries to please everyone, but cannot and that is why he creates the "Junta Técnica". On the other hand, Italy would have all that expansionism in Africa not so much because of the war but because of the treaties, that is, Balbo would use his personality to make agreements with the governments of those territories and thus annex them, but maintaining a kind of autonomous government for each one. Balbo would govern Italy with a government that was fascist only in name, because he would open democratic institutions, support the elections and the strikes; but he would retain the ideals of fascism such as state control, expansionism, and nationalism. I also want to clarify that World War II never happened in this universe, nor did the Axis Powers or the Allies. Anyway, I am still working on this story and I will surely change some dates and facts, but keeping 1937 as the central axis.
Well that is going to be interesting. With no WWII its going to be a vastly different world. I can't see Italy by 1940 having such territory in Africa because their gaining control of colonies from Britain, France, Spain and Belgium including some very important ones such as Algeria and Egypt. I'm interested to see how you achieve that. Or was the 1940 date a typo?
Steve
hello; the truth is that you are right, 1940 is a very short time for all that expansion, I should have put a more distant date like 1947 or 1957. But as I already said, many dates and things are going to change over time, maybe in the final version they do not have so many territories or that they share it with other countries. Thank you for making me see this and rethink everything, in the next few days I will upload a timeline to lay the foundations of this universe and from there change what is necessary. By the way I ask you a question: if I write in Spanish, would it be more practical for you or is it better that I translate it and paste it as I am doing so far? |
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stevep
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Post by stevep on Mar 5, 2022 16:27:56 GMT
Well that is going to be interesting. With no WWII its going to be a vastly different world. I can't see Italy by 1940 having such territory in Africa because their gaining control of colonies from Britain, France, Spain and Belgium including some very important ones such as Algeria and Egypt. I'm interested to see how you achieve that. Or was the 1940 date a typo?
Steve
hello; the truth is that you are right, 1940 is a very short time for all that expansion, I should have put a more distant date like 1947 or 1957. But as I already said, many dates and things are going to change over time, maybe in the final version they do not have so many territories or that they share it with other countries. Thank you for making me see this and rethink everything, in the next few days I will upload a timeline to lay the foundations of this universe and from there change what is necessary. By the way I ask you a question: if I write in Spanish, would it be more practical for you or is it better that I translate it and paste it as I am doing so far?
Definitely English for me as that's the only language I speak.  Lordrol is Dutch and we have members from around the world with a significant contribution from the Philippines as well as Europe and N America. As such you will probably get few people understanding you in Spanish, although the younger/more tech capable could use one of the translation programmes.
Glad to have been of help and hope I didn't come across as too negative but without very drastic changes Italy isn't going to be controlling/strongly influencing many of those regions for several decades I would say. That's why I was wondering if it was some sort of fascist victory world as that's the only way I could see Italy controlling such a vast areas of Africa].
Even after been weakened by WWII most of those territories were under direct or indirect control of other European powers until the 1950-60s so without that conflict you need something to bring forwards widespread decolonisation by a decade or two I think. After that and if Italy is very well governed and lucky it might end up gaining influence as the leader of some non-aligned pact although its own colonial empire is a barrier here.
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lordroel
Administrator
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Post by lordroel on Mar 5, 2022 16:32:39 GMT
By the way I ask you a question: if I write in Spanish, would it be more practical for you or is it better that I translate it and paste it as I am doing so far? English is the language we speak here, if you have problems, you can try asking if any members can help you translate from Spanish into English. |
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Post by Alexsander on Mar 5, 2022 16:42:58 GMT
Don't worry, I can read English perfectly and I think I write it quite well; I asked for my practicality, so that I am not translating everything I write. From now on I write only in English and that's it.
Greetings.
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michelvan
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Post by michelvan on Mar 24, 2022 8:35:09 GMT
I Wonder what Miracle happen that give Italy that Power to Conquer so much of Africa ?
Compare that really happen during WW2 !
I mean the Colonial Superpowers like France and Britain will not stand by and let Italians conquer there Colonies and protectorates !
and to be honest the British wipe the floor with Italian forces in Africa, until Rommel arrived to be kick around by British...
i look for option of Strong Italy in TL were German Empire wins WW1 and 2
there more successful as OTL, but not like in your proposal Alexander
In my scenario fight Italy with Germans against communist France in 1941-1946
in end they gain piece of South France, Corsica, Tunis and Algeria for Mussolini novo Roma
Only to lose it again in 1960s uprise of Algerian, Tunis and Libya
Mussolini died of old age in 1968 and Italo Balbo become the new Duce
He died in 1987 and the Queen of Italy push for transition to Democratic Government (like Spain under Juan Carlos).
approve by members of Unites States of Europa under German Hegemonie
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Lordrol is Dutch and we have members from around the world with a significant contribution from the Philippines as well as Europe and N America. As such you will probably get few people understanding you in Spanish, although the younger/more tech capable could use one of the translation programmes.
