Zyobot
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Post by Zyobot on Jul 28, 2021 15:36:13 GMT
'Augusto Pinochet (2006) SI To Joseph Stalin (1936)'. Good news: we have a somewhat more reasonable, more economically literate dictator who's more likely to implement the NEP now. Bad news: he's still a bastard (albeit considerably less so than Stalin), and will still purge hardliners and true believers within at least the inner and middle rings of the Politburo (since they'd still stand in the way of Pinochet's plans).
Given he's very right wing that would be a hell of a lot of true believers. Not to mention given his view would he actually want the Nazis to succeed?
I know less about what Pinochet thought of Hitler and the Nazis IOTL, but I imagine he’d quickly understand that it’s in his and the USSR’s best interest to oppose him, if he deems war inevitable and decides to rearm. Mein Kampf is already out, I believe, and given that he and and the Soviet people are overwhelmingly Slavic, he’d put two and two together long before Hitler can backstab him. That, and Germany still needs massive grain and raw material shipments from the USSR, which Pinochet would also recognize and cut off accordingly.
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stevep
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Post by stevep on Jul 28, 2021 15:49:49 GMT
Given he's very right wing that would be a hell of a lot of true believers. Not to mention given his view would he actually want the Nazis to succeed?
I know less about what Pinochet thought of Hitler and the Nazis IOTL, but I imagine he’d quickly understand that it’s in his and the USSR’s best interest to oppose him, if he deems war inevitable and decides to rearm. Mein Kampf is already out, I believe, and given that he and and the Soviet people are overwhelmingly Slavic, he’d put two and two together long before Hitler can backstab him. That, and Germany still needs massive grain and raw material shipments from the USSR, which Pinochet would also recognize and cut off accordingly.
Could be especially since he's now Georgian and also head of the communist system that so many right wingers want to destroy at all costs. Plus less important that Mein Kampf would be his knowledge of history in terms of what happens in WWII and the run up to it. However you get a fair number of right wingers who loath the USSR so much - thinking of another site for instance - that they would pay just about any cost to destroy it and many of its people. Not sure how deep Pinochet's hostility would be but given how he reacted to a socialist government freely elected in his own country, with a coup and brutal repression and murder for decades its not something that I would definitely rule out.
I think Germany was only really heavily dependent on supplies from the USSR between Sep 39 and Jun 41 once the invasion of Poland triggered the war and hence a western blockade. If Pinochet does decide he wants the USSR, albeit possibly seeking to make it a right wing rather than a left wing dictatorship, then I wonder what changes he would make and when? Presumably no purge - although possibly directing it more toward political opponents -which would be most of the establishment - rather than technical people. Would he still go ahead with the pact with Hitler or possibly try and make a stand over Czechoslovakia, although he has the problem of no direct connection with the country for aid to reach them. Plenty of options.
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Zyobot
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Post by Zyobot on Aug 5, 2021 1:39:48 GMT
'1939 Nazis React To 1945 Atomic Bombings'.
Once they get over the shock and fear of it being used on them, probably by feigning disgust and shifting the goalposts as their leaders rant about the evils of "Jewish sorcery." Although, doing so would make ordinary citizens scratch their heads, as the Reich races to develop its own bomb years in advance (how much success they'd have given their various anti-science attitudes, I don't know).
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stevep
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Post by stevep on Aug 6, 2021 8:29:17 GMT
'1939 Nazis React To 1945 Atomic Bombings'. Once they get over the shock and fear of it being used on them, probably by feigning disgust and shifting the goalposts as their leaders rant about the evils of "Jewish sorcery." Although, doing so would make ordinary citizens scratch their heads, as the Reich races to develop its own bomb years in advance (how much success they'd have given their various anti-science attitudes, I don't know).
Do they just get news - in a form that they can't simply reject - of the bombings or any details about the devices themselves? Also is it only elements of the Nazi hierarchy or the population as a whole or others in 1939 as well? Furthermore what point in 1939 is this? Guessing 1-9-39 but if more than a few days before it could delay the start of the war.
If there are no technical details then they will have information that such weapons are available but, as long as they believe such info they will have to try and get around their OTL beliefs that lead them to believe too much material would be needed. Also if they don't go to war and have most of Europe to loot then unless they vastly cut back their military programme they simply can't afford a research programme.
If its only the leadership that gets this information then they very likely won't tell anyone. Some scientists and engineers will get instructions on what they must do - in vague details - but I think they would do anything they can to avoid frightening the general population into an anti-war stance and also to try and keep such info out of enemy [i.e. everybody else] hands.
If they get the information that its the US that make the attacks on Japan then they might be less willing to declare war on it.
Anyway initial thoughts.
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Zyobot
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Post by Zyobot on Aug 6, 2021 17:24:16 GMT
'1939 Nazis React To 1945 Atomic Bombings'. Once they get over the shock and fear of it being used on them, probably by feigning disgust and shifting the goalposts as their leaders rant about the evils of "Jewish sorcery." Although, doing so would make ordinary citizens scratch their heads, as the Reich races to develop its own bomb years in advance (how much success they'd have given their various anti-science attitudes, I don't know).
Do they just get news - in a form that they can't simply reject - of the bombings or any details about the devices themselves? Also is it only elements of the Nazi hierarchy or the population as a whole or others in 1939 as well? Furthermore what point in 1939 is this? Guessing 1-9-39 but if more than a few days before it could delay the start of the war.
If there are no technical details then they will have information that such weapons are available but, as long as they believe such info they will have to try and get around their OTL beliefs that lead them to believe too much material would be needed. Also if they don't go to war and have most of Europe to loot then unless they vastly cut back their military programme they simply can't afford a research programme.
If its only the leadership that gets this information then they very likely won't tell anyone. Some scientists and engineers will get instructions on what they must do - in vague details - but I think they would do anything they can to avoid frightening the general population into an anti-war stance and also to try and keep such info out of enemy [i.e. everybody else] hands.
If they get the information that its the US that make the attacks on Japan then they might be less willing to declare war on it.
Anyway initial thoughts.
Thanks for the reply. Just because I'm interested in both a) how they'd interpret it if they had to do as much extrapolating as possible and b) what they'd think of a "Jewish cesspit" like America beating everyone else to it, I suppose the Nazi leadership would receive undeniable news of the atomic bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki on August 1st, 1939. Given that they have a month before storming into Poland, Hitler and his inner circle now have a few weeks before committing to another war.
Ordinarily, I'd imagine that, per his reluctance to use chemical or biological weapons IOTL, Hitler would also be cautious about provoking nuclear retaliation from Germany's enemies. However, since he and his minions receive the news before anyone else--up to and including the Americans who actually worked on the Manhattan Project--I'm predisposed to him holding off on re-militarization for the time being, and devoting more scientists to the creation of this new "super-bomb". Which he may use as a geopolitical weapon to extort from nearby powers that refuse to appease him, though if he becomes overconfident and decides he can just run wild with his new toy, he may take out a city (or two) to demonstrate what happens if you don't do as Mr. Hitler says. I don't know much about his personal temperament beyond what's reasonable to infer, but I fear that any monopoly on super-weapons Germany possesses may go to his head and make Hitler even more erratic and unhinged than he was IOTL. And that is a terrifying notion!
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stevep
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Post by stevep on Aug 7, 2021 10:14:47 GMT
Do they just get news - in a form that they can't simply reject - of the bombings or any details about the devices themselves? Also is it only elements of the Nazi hierarchy or the population as a whole or others in 1939 as well? Furthermore what point in 1939 is this? Guessing 1-9-39 but if more than a few days before it could delay the start of the war.
If there are no technical details then they will have information that such weapons are available but, as long as they believe such info they will have to try and get around their OTL beliefs that lead them to believe too much material would be needed. Also if they don't go to war and have most of Europe to loot then unless they vastly cut back their military programme they simply can't afford a research programme.
If its only the leadership that gets this information then they very likely won't tell anyone. Some scientists and engineers will get instructions on what they must do - in vague details - but I think they would do anything they can to avoid frightening the general population into an anti-war stance and also to try and keep such info out of enemy [i.e. everybody else] hands.
If they get the information that its the US that make the attacks on Japan then they might be less willing to declare war on it.
Anyway initial thoughts.
Thanks for the reply. Just because I'm interested in both a) how they'd interpret it if they had to do as much extrapolating as possible and b) what they'd think of a "Jewish cesspit" like America beating everyone else to it, I suppose the Nazi leadership would receive undeniable news of the atomic bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki on August 1st, 1939. Given that they have a month before storming into Poland, Hitler and his inner circle now have a few weeks before committing to another war.
Ordinarily, I'd imagine that, per his reluctance to use chemical or biological weapons IOTL, Hitler would also be cautious about provoking nuclear retaliation from Germany's enemies. However, since he and his minions receive the news before anyone else--up to and including the Americans who actually worked on the Manhattan Project--I'm predisposed to him holding off on re-militarization for the time being, and devoting more scientists to the creation of this new "super-bomb". Which he may use as a geopolitical weapon to extort from nearby powers that refuse to appease him, though if he becomes overconfident and decides he can just run wild with his new toy, he may take out a city (or two) to demonstrate what happens if you don't do as Mr. Hitler says. I don't know much about his personal temperament beyond what's reasonable to infer, but I fear that any monopoly on super-weapons Germany possesses may go to his head and make Hitler even more erratic and unhinged than he was IOTL. And that is a terrifying notion!
Well, if he doesn't know what happens he may or may not delay the war. There is the chance as he can pull back from the demands he's made and the pact with Stalin hasn't been flnalised yet. However turning off much of the massive military build up that was occurring would not only be very much against his desires but cause a huge amount of economic disruption. Furthermore by this time Britain and France were responding so if he does trim things back he may lose the advantage that he had OTL. Especially since with mistrust of Hitler and concerns about Japan they might slow down a bit but won't stop.
Of course being Hitler he could decide that he needs to win, including defeating the US before they can develop nukes, as well as seeking to produce them himself.
Its not just producing a warhead of course. You would need somewhere to test it and 1939 Germany wouldn't have a lot of space for that without expansion. Also since the early nukes were huge they need very large bombers to carry them. Even more so if your thinking of war with the US or possibly using it deep into the USSR. As such Germany might have to really make an effort at the Ural bomber, which would take up a considerable amount of resources.
Steve
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Zyobot
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Post by Zyobot on Aug 8, 2021 0:39:32 GMT
'Spartan Soldiers Fight In WW1'.
That is, several thousand fighting-age Spartan males are resurrected, updated on the state of the world, and trained by each of the principal factions before being shipped off in 1914. It may be needlessly cruel and not their fault they developed the views they did, but there's a point at which reason really ought to kick in and force them to come to their senses. If this doesn't shatter their starry-eyed glorification of bloodletting in a way that ancient wars couldn't, they I don't know what will (aside from World War II or a Cold War gone hot, the latter being far too terrible and costly to recover from).
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Zyobot
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Post by Zyobot on Aug 9, 2021 1:17:13 GMT
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Zyobot
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Post by Zyobot on Aug 10, 2021 2:23:41 GMT
'Genghis Khan and Roman Von Ungern-Sternberg Become Roommates'.
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Zyobot
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Post by Zyobot on Aug 11, 2021 2:53:46 GMT
'All Mein Kampf Copies Simultaneously Burst Into Flames In 1940'.
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Zyobot
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Post by Zyobot on Aug 12, 2021 17:58:35 GMT
'Uday Hussein Becomes President of Iraq For 5 Years'.
Courtesy of ASB causing Saddam to kick the bucket around 2000, before magically making the Iraqi Military and people compliant with Uday's insane whims as soon as he seizes power. Probably a mass-death scenario in all but name, but even if not, I've little doubt that Uday's name will be cursed alongside Hitler and Stalin by future generations, after his reign of terror is finished.
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Zyobot
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Post by Zyobot on Aug 13, 2021 20:20:33 GMT
‘Blue Ray Disks Become Blue Stingrays’.
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Zyobot
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Post by Zyobot on Aug 15, 2021 0:14:52 GMT
'Roland Freisler Gets His Own Arbitration-Themed TV Show'.
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stevep
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Post by stevep on Aug 15, 2021 10:02:52 GMT
'Roland Freisler Gets His Own Arbitration-Themed TV Show'.
The problem is there are a fair number of people in the US, in the state its currently in, who would find it good entertainment.
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Zyobot
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Post by Zyobot on Aug 15, 2021 14:58:58 GMT
'Roland Freisler Gets His Own Arbitration-Themed TV Show'.
The problem is there are a fair number of people in the US, in the state its currently in, who would find it good entertainment. Having a Nazi judge resurrected to screech at people in the courtroom would be unique, no doubt. Yes, I’m aware that Gordon Ramsay exists, but at least his off-camera demeanor is considerably nicer. Freisler, on the other hand, was just an all-around scumbag, in addition to the fact he was a Nazi.
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