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Post by Otto Kretschmer on Jan 22, 2022 20:19:40 GMT
This is because the islands climate does not allow bigger populatiin. It's the other way around - it needs to expand in order to grow.
Shetland is at the edge of where agriculture is possible and soils aren't great either.
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lordroel
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Post by lordroel on Jan 22, 2022 20:24:50 GMT
This is because the islands climate does not allow bigger populatiin. It's the other way around - it needs to expand in order to grow. Shetland is at the edge of where agriculture is possible and soils aren't great either. Thus establish settlements in Western Scotland and England where they can grow, together with the local population who will of course be drawn to those settlements. |
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Post by Otto Kretschmer on Jan 22, 2022 20:29:39 GMT
You mean Eastern Scotland?
Shetlanders know about horse collars, heavy plows, crop rotation (probably about no till/no dig agriculture as well), organic fertilizers etc and should be able to establish productive settlements.
Do
222 BC - ISOT
212 BC - first settlements in Scotland
200 BC - ?
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stevep
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Post by stevep on Jan 23, 2022 12:06:29 GMT
Uh... Ok.  It was a joke. Looking at the graphic, the Shetland population has sins 1801 has to present 2022 has hoverd around 20,000 +, so if they want to expand, the need to grow in population: 1801, 22,379. 1811, 22,379. 1821, 22,915. 1831, 26,145. 1841, 29,392. 1851, 30,558. 1861, 31,078. 1871, 31,670. 1881, 29,705. 1891, 29,705. 1911, 27,911. 1921, 27,911. 1931, 25,520. 1941, 21,421. 1951, 19,352. 1961, 19,352. 1971, 17,812. 1981, 17,335. 1991, 22,053. 2001, 22,567. 2011, 23,167.
That suggests that until something happened in the 1980's - probably related to N Sea oil and gas industry - the islands had been be pretty steep decline. It can't just be agricultural limits as technology and capability have improved since their peak pop in the 1850's and then Norway and Iceland has significant populations further north in the same part of the world. I suspect it would be more social in terms of better opportunities becoming available elsewhere rather than subsistence farming. Or possibly there was some version of the Highland clearances with crofters being replaced by sheep as the lairds could make more money that way.
The key point is how do they expand. Increasing their own population by larger families would be socially more secure but would take time and also need changes where women especially would have to be willing to have more children. Seeking to incorporate down-times would risk too many cultural pressures and possibly ending up with them losing control to those down-times which depending on the circumstances could be bad for them.
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Post by Otto Kretschmer on Jan 23, 2022 12:29:11 GMT
It was a joke. Looking at the graphic, the Shetland population has sins 1801 has to present 2022 has hoverd around 20,000 +, so if they want to expand, the need to grow in population: 1801, 22,379. 1811, 22,379. 1821, 22,915. 1831, 26,145. 1841, 29,392. 1851, 30,558. 1861, 31,078. 1871, 31,670. 1881, 29,705. 1891, 29,705. 1911, 27,911. 1921, 27,911. 1931, 25,520. 1941, 21,421. 1951, 19,352. 1961, 19,352. 1971, 17,812. 1981, 17,335. 1991, 22,053. 2001, 22,567. 2011, 23,167.
That suggests that until something happened in the 1980's - probably related to N Sea oil and gas industry - the islands had been be pretty steep decline. It can't just be agricultural limits as technology and capability have improved since their peak pop in the 1850's and then Norway and Iceland has significant populations further north in the same part of the world. I suspect it would be more social in terms of better opportunities becoming available elsewhere rather than subsistence farming. Or possibly there was some version of the Highland clearances with crofters being replaced by sheep as the lairds could make more money that way.
The key point is how do they expand. Increasing their own population by larger families would be socially more secure but would take time and also need changes where women especially would have to be willing to have more children. Seeking to incorporate down-times would risk too many cultural pressures and possibly ending up with them losing control to those down-times which depending on the circumstances could be bad for them.
Securing access to resources is crucial. In particular, access to wood is very important. Ships are going to run out of fuel and even sailboats are going to get worn out after several decades. They need wood to build ships as well as make gunpowder. They need nitrate beds too. |
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Post by Otto Kretschmer on Jan 23, 2022 15:24:59 GMT
stevep How do you think will Shetlanders go to America and how are they going to interact with Native Americans? Also how much tech will they retain by say 150 BC? Lots of folks have high school textbooks and some have university textbooks Modern concepts are not going to be gorgotten. Will there be Industrial Revolution? What will be Territorial extent of Shetland by 150 BC?
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stevep
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Post by stevep on Jan 23, 2022 15:42:31 GMT
stevep How do you think will Shetlanders go to America and how are they going to interact with Native Americans? Also how much tech will they retain by say 150 BC? Lots of folks have high school textbooks and some have university textbooks Modern concepts are not going to be gorgotten. Will there be Industrial Revolution? What will be Territorial extent of Shetland by 150 BC?
I think their likely to head south rather than west but mentioned Iceland as a possibility if they feel they need to find somewhere safer, especially if their being raided by down-timers and don't have enough ships to continually patrol say. One advantage of Iceland is that with volcanoes there obtaining sulfur would be less of a problem.
Most likely they would visit the Orkney's 1st and start realising its not just a loss of communications with the modern world. After that a lot would depend on events.
Books would be a much more useful source of knowledge than anything electronic as the latter, even if stored on the hard disk would probably not be available for more than a few years.
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Post by Otto Kretschmer on Jan 23, 2022 18:15:33 GMT
Some people will go to America just because they know it is there.
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razor007
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Post by razor007 on Mar 12, 2022 8:10:32 GMT
Shetland will form alliances, trade routes and eventually a Confederation with the northernmost Pictish tribes. Uptimers education Pictish youngsters resulting in Shetland culture spreading slowly.
Shetland eventually becomes Britannia 2.0 and makes contact with the Medditeranean nations
Shetlanders eventually culturally dominate the world
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