lordroel
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Post by lordroel on Oct 4, 2021 18:25:24 GMT
Poor Belgian F-16s, they suffered the most devastating loss by the Belgian air force sins 1940. Also i do not think the Allies are going to like this 4th of July. The Belgians will want revenge indeed! An unhappy Independence Day is coming for American troops stationed in West Germany. Will this be the final draw that gets the West Germans into action.
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James G
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Post by James G on Oct 4, 2021 18:26:27 GMT
Thirty-two – Second strike
Once again, following a night of air strikes, the East Germans waited until the next morning before they made a retaliation. The second strike using ballistic missiles was different from the first one the day beforehand though. There were fewer distant targets, less missiles and change in tactics too. In addition, rather than at twilight, the strike came once the sun was up and was also less confined within a short time period. To open the attack, the longer-range and more accurate Spiders were used. Just four of them flew. One each went after RAF Bruggen and Spangdahlem AB again, main operating bases within West Germany for the British and American air activity respectively. Patriots fired by the US Army failed to stop Spangdahlem being hit with the missile landing within the base perimeter; no defensive missiles came out of Bruggen to defeat the almost-perfect hit there too. Damage was done and there were a few casualties but, once more, air operations would soon be able to continue following a clean-up and sweep of the runways from blast fragments. Volkel AB in the Netherlands was another target with both the Dutch and the Americans using that facility. Dutch Patriots were fired, aiming to repeat the (ultimately bittersweet) success of the night beforehand yet they failed to hit the inbound missile. The Spider missed its target though and blew up close by within the small town of Uden: two civilians were killed. The US European Command HQ at Patch Barracks was struck by the fourth missile. The previous strike had missed it, and Stuttgart entirely, but that Spider on the morning of July 4th was spot on. It demolished the targeted building and killed nine US service-personnel. Others sheltering belowground were left shaken but unharmed. Sembach AB, a US Air Force base in the Rhineland which hadn’t been targeted the last time around, got hit by two Scuds. One detonated above the (empty) base housing while the second crashed just off the flight-line where there was no detonation of its warhead. Missile fuel went up leading to a big fire there. Two helicopters were destroyed in that when it spread rapidly in the face of all efforts to control it and the flames also engulfed a hanger in which sat a damaged DC-130A. That was drone control aircraft which had been busy firing off Frisbee missile lures into East Germany during the night seeking to expose the positions of SAMs for attacks by Wild Weasel aircraft. It had returned to Sembach and made a hard landing – pilot error was to blame – before being pulled into a hangar. The fire destroyed it entirely.
Lone Scuds as well as short-range Scarabs not going far out of the borders of the DDR completed the second strike. They didn’t fly very far and went after a wholly different target set. Those were garrisons for American and British soldiers within West Germany. Bergen, Celle, Gutersloh, Hohne, and Osnabrück (again) were struck with barracks facilities within each town taken under attack. There were eight civilian deaths in Celle and another single fatality of an innocent in Osnabrück: thirteen British soldiers also died. The US Army in the central & southern portions of West Germany got it harder than that. Ansbach, Bamberg, Darmstadt, Giessen, Hanau (struck like the night before), Vilseck and Wiesbaden all came under ballistic missile attack. Hanau and Wiesbaden were defended by Patriot coverage with one Scud taken out despite much effort to eliminate more of them. An off-course Scarab aimed at Pendelton Barracks in Giessen exploded above a street outside the small city’s hospital. Twenty deaths were caused among patients and also civilians rushing to a nearby air raid shelter. It was a massacre, one alongside nine more losses to innocent life in Bamberg, Darmstadt and Vilseck combined too. Forty-three American soldiers were also killed that morning. It was Independence Day back home, a public holiday for celebrations, yet for US Army service-personnel in West Germany the day was one of horror. West German, and later foreign, media teams were all over Giessen with images flashed around the world of a hospital which had met the full face of war. East Germany was directly responsible for what happened there, yet the Coalition and the West German government both would be subject to furious anger by those who blamed them for ‘allowing’ for such a thing to happen. Chancellor Schäuble would be back on the phone to his erstwhile allies imploring them to cease their air campaign. Sympathies were expressed for the loss of civilian life with medical assistance offered but Coalition leaders affirmed their intentions to continue. President Cuomo, briefed on the deaths of all of those soldiers, told Schäuble that full blame lay at the feet of Margot Honecker; replies from Fabius and Heseltine in Paris and London were similar though spoken more softly than what was heard from Washington.
In the aftermath of the missile attacks, Coalition and East German military activity continued throughout the daylight hours of July 4th.
Air operations by Coalition aircraft took place across the DDR and down into the Czech Republic as well. Not as heavy as those in night-time, there were air strikes which still took place. East German Army units dispersed away from garrisons were targeted. So too were suspected air facilities where the LSK had hidden away its aircraft ready to use at will. None of them came up during the day, giving Coalition free reign to fly over East Germany unchallenged by interceptors. There were a lot of fighters flying about ready for that to happen though. The night-time ambush near to Potsdam had been costly but had been where the LSK had dared to expose itself so brazenly. Many Coalition fighter pilots went looking for a fight with the MiG-29s yet to no avail. East German SAMs and anti-aircraft fire challenged the mass violation of air sovereignty. They took their toll too where they were emerging as victors from the cat-and-mouse games with Wild Weasels and HARM-shooters. Four Coalition aircraft – two American F-16s, an RAF Harrier and a French Mirage F-1 – were brought down with a handful of further aircraft damaged. To add to the Coalition’s woes when it came to enemy SAMs, a pair of unseen SA-10 batteries, operating only within a few miles of the Inner-German Border despite all efforts to defeat such an attempt, fired off missiles into West German airspace. They managed to hit and bring down a Nimrod R1 signals intelligence aircraft and also cause major damage to a US Air Force E-8 JSTARS: the aircraft put down hard at Rhein-Main and would never fly again. Those high-profile targets had been far from where the action was supposed to be and undertaking important work to aid the air campaign. A combined British and Dutch air effort in the Harz Mountains would fail to locate that SA-10 system which had fired on the Nimrod but the Americans got the other launcher down in the Thuringwald. A-10 attack-fighters, flying low and slow inside East German airspace, dodging man-portable SAMs as well as anti-aircraft guns, caught sight of the guilty SA-10 battery on the move. Maverick missiles followed by short bursts of fire from their 30mm cannons blew the battery to tiny pieces… and those too who operated it. A loss like that, as well as the damage done to a SA-15 battery by Danish F-16s firing HARMs before dropping bombs in the follow-up, were losses that hurt the East German air defence network as much as their hits of aircraft did to the Coalition.
As to those A-10s which made that attack in the Thuringwald, the chain of mountainous forests which ran through the middle of Thuringia, they were flying out of Sembach where there was a big presence of them: US Air Force and Air Reserve aircraft were there with a squadron of Air National Guard A-10s due to join them. Their mission was to go into East German airspace but not operate too deep as other Coalition aircraft were doing. Moreover, their flights were part of a joint USAF / US Army operation in the Inner-German Border area. The latter fielded Task Force Phoenix, which consisted of various helicopter detachments from the US V Corps. There were Apaches, Cobras, Kiowas, Black Hawks and Hueys spread out across the West German countryside with the headquarters at the twice-targeted Hanau AAF. Among the US Army Europe, at US EUCOM and back in the Pentagon too, the matter of TF Phoenix was controversial. It was mandated upon high that US Army aviation assets would work with the US Air Force to take part in Operation Allied Sword. The cooperation was meant to be larger than what had seen against the Iraqis four years beforehand and was part of the ‘modern’ US Armed Forces for the 1990s. Hunting missiles – ballistic and SAMs – was the remit for combined ops as well as helping to go after downed aircrew. Helicopters flew into East German airspace on attack missions with a real effort made come the second day of air activity. A flight of Apaches located and destroyed a short-range SAM battery while another hit a suspected Scud battery. East German border guards were engaged too. Escorted by Black Hawks fitted with the Quick Fix electronic warfare system for strike escort, more Apache gunships went as far forward as to the town of Suhl right up in the Thuringwald before F-15Es made a low-level daylight attack against a hidden airstrip nearby. TF Phoenix shot-up air defences ahead of the F-15Es making their bomb run with excellent cooperation seen. One of the Black Hawks was hit by sustained anti-aircraft fire on the way out though and crashed in flames killing everyone aboard. TF Phoenix itself came under attack. Two of their own dispersed airstrips where the helicopters were flying from, near to Fulda, were fired upon by Scarabs that the East Germans used in an evening attack. Another site near to Hof, where Bavaria met Saxony with the Inner-German Border in between, faced a different ballistic attack. The DDR fired FROG-7 guided rockets right before night fell. Those were East German Army weapons – other ballistic missiles ultimately belonged to the LSK – which slammed into the TF Phoenix field base. One missed though, going wide and hitting the edge of Hof itself where five civilians died as their house collapsed atop of them. F-16s would later get the launch battery, smashing it apart before it could reach its hiding position, but that was little consolation for the American soldiers and the West German family who’d died ahead of that.
The conflict between East Germany and the coalition had other theatres of war too. West Berlin faced long-range mortar and then artillery fire on the second day. Enemy guns shot off shells from far outside of the Berlin Wall – to the north and south – which crashed into military positions within the city. The shelling was accurate and timely. Spotters, spies within the confines of the city, were rightly suspected as having called in the shelling which killed American and French soldiers and also a handful of civilians too. Apart from that, there was no further activity. Troops on duty in West Berlin (British ones as well) waited for the inevitable invasion just like the mass of civilians trapped there with them. When it would come, no one knew, yet it was considered certain by those on the ground. Coalition political leaders still regarded that as unlikely though less the DDR wish to thoroughly expand the conflict to one where a seized West Berlin would have to be liberated. In Washington, London & Paris, they were certain that Honecker wouldn’t want to see that just as much as they didn’t either.
Down in the Czech Republic, East German military activity had come to a standstill due to their homeland under severe attack. The front-lines of the civil war had stalled once the Poles had filled a small portion of the remaining part of the country under Czech government control with their own soldiers. Without DDR support to push them out, the Czech rebels wouldn’t finish the job. Air attacks by American and French aircraft (the French were concentrating solely on the Czech Republic) had done immense damage and continued to do that against the desires of East Germany’s Candidate X up in Prague to fully ‘liberate’ his country. Two nights of heavy bomb attacks, followed by a second day of less intensive action, hurt his military forces significantly. News came that the Poles were reinforcing too now that DDR air activity against them had ceased. They were moving in another division. More than that, Polish Army elements were redeploying away from garrisons on home soil as well. They were building up forces in both Pomerania and Silesia. East German military intelligence had eyes upon that with many worrying possible scenarios plotted out as to what the end result of that might be. The Volksarmee was following political direction that said that Operation Allied Sword was the air prelude to a ground invasion no matter what Coalition political leaders said. Full mobilisation for a people’s war to defend every metre of the country’s soil was still underway though the Polish movements complicated matters significantly. In Warsaw, a HVA spy there reported back to East Berlin that the American-led Coalition military liaison team to Poland had a fixed base of operations. Stasi chief Schwanitz went to the Prenden bunker where Honecker was. He strongly recommended a missile strike upon Warsaw to hit that Coalition staff as well as ‘regime targets’ too. Honecker refused: the time wasn’t ripe for that, the diplomatic outcome wouldn’t be favourable either. It wasn’t a definite ‘no’ for not striking at any point but Schwanitz left Prenden angry at such a refusal because he saw no better time than then.
At the southern end of the Oresund, between Zealand and the lowest reaches of Sweden, Coalition warships had run a naval barricade to bar the way for hostile vessels seeking to cross that waterway. The Swedes, the Finns, the Baltic States and the Russians had all made strong complaints about that as well as international shipping countries. The Danish Straits were guaranteed to be open to all under long-standing international law. They weren’t closed though, so said Copenhagen and Washington, just well monitored. Warships, aircraft and submarines there were in-place to stop East German warships as well as disguised blockade runners. The disruption from the armed presence, where commercial shipping was subject to being stopped for inspections, was significant. In addition, insurers had already quadrupled prices fearing that the Baltic Exits would be a war-zone. Swedish naval vessels were out while communications between Stockholm and Copenhagen got rather heated. Late on July 4th, a Swedish armed corvette escorted two Swedish-flagged merchant ships towards the Oresund. Those vessels wouldn’t be stopped for inspections nor waylaid at all following the latest round of Danish-Swedish talks. The merchants ships were intending to go their own way once out of the Oresund with distant destinations. The largest one of the pair was heading towards Baltimore on the US East Coast. Unbeknown to the crew aboard, or those on the corvette, into the slipstream of that vessel went another. Just below the surface, trailing a much larger vessel dangerously close was the Oder. East Germany’s lone submarine tried to slip through the defences placed in its way and get out into open waters on the other side of Denmark. It was a daring attempt, especially for an inexperienced crew aboard that Kilo. It didn’t work though.
The Kilo was a quiet submarine but not silent enough. A sudden, rough move was made by the merchantman up above and – to save his sub – the East German captain had to respond. The Royal Navy was all over him pretty damn fast. It was mostly Danish naval forces active in the Oresund area but the Americans, the Norwegians and the British too were there. Flying from off HMS Campbeltown, a Royal Navy multi-role frigate, were two Lynx HMA8 helicopters. One of them got a whiff of the Oder and dropped sonobuoys while also calling in further support. Those were heard hitting the water and the East German sub captain did what he had to and evaded a certain incoming attack where those would be followed by torpedoes. He launched noise-makers and dove while breaking fast for wider waters than the upcoming tight Oresund. There would be all sorts of activity up above – angry Swedes among them – but the Coalition wouldn’t get a line upon the Oder.
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lordroel
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Post by lordroel on Oct 4, 2021 19:04:08 GMT
Thirty-two – Second strikeOnce again, following a night of air strikes, the East Germans waited until the next morning before they made a retaliation. The second strike using ballistic missiles was different from the first one the day beforehand though. There were fewer distant targets, less missiles and change in tactics too. In addition, rather than at twilight, the strike came once the sun was up and was also less confined within a short time period. To open the attack, the longer-range and more accurate Spiders were used. Just four of them flew. One each went after RAF Bruggen and Spangdahlem AB again, main operating bases within West Germany for the British and American air activity respectively. Patriots fired by the US Army failed to stop Spangdahlem being hit with the missile landing within the base perimeter; no defensive missiles came out of Bruggen to defeat the almost-perfect hit there too. Damage was done and there were a few casualties but, once more, air operations would soon be able to continue following a clean-up and sweep of the runways from blast fragments. Volkel AB in the Netherlands was another target with both the Dutch and the Americans using that facility. Dutch Patriots were fired, aiming to repeat the (ultimately bittersweet) success of the night beforehand yet they failed to hit the inbound missile. The Spider missed its target though and blew up close by within the small town of Uden: two civilians were killed. The US European Command HQ at Patch Barracks was struck by the fourth missile. The previous strike had missed it, and Stuttgart entirely, but that Spider on the morning of July 4th was spot on. It demolished the targeted building and killed nine US service-personnel. Others sheltering belowground were left shaken but unharmed. Sembach AB, a US Air Force base in the Rhineland which hadn’t been targeted the last time around, got hit by two Scuds. One detonated above the (empty) base housing while the second crashed just off the flight-line where there was no detonation of its warhead. Missile fuel went up leading to a big fire there. Two helicopters were destroyed in that when it spread rapidly in the face of all efforts to control it and the flames also engulfed a hanger in which sat a damaged DC-130A. That was drone control aircraft which had been busy firing off Frisbee missile lures into East Germany during the night seeking to expose the positions of SAMs for attacks by Wild Weasel aircraft. It had returned to Sembach and made a hard landing – pilot error was to blame – before being pulled into a hangar. The fire destroyed it entirely. Lone Scuds as well as short-range Scarabs not going far out of the borders of the DDR completed the second strike. They didn’t fly very far and went after a wholly different target set. Those were garrisons for American and British soldiers within West Germany. Bergen, Celle, Gutersloh, Hohne, and Osnabrück (again) were struck with barracks facilities within each town taken under attack. There were eight civilian deaths in Celle and another single fatality of an innocent in Osnabrück: thirteen British soldiers also died. The US Army in the central & southern portions of West Germany got it harder than that. Ansbach, Bamberg, Darmstadt, Giessen, Hanau (struck like the night before), Vilseck and Wiesbaden all came under ballistic missile attack. Hanau and Wiesbaden were defended by Patriot coverage with one Scud taken out despite much effort to eliminate more of them. An off-course Scarab aimed at Pendelton Barracks in Giessen exploded above a street outside the small city’s hospital. Twenty deaths were caused among patients and also civilians rushing to a nearby air raid shelter. It was a massacre, one alongside nine more losses to innocent life in Bamberg, Darmstadt and Vilseck combined too. Forty-three American soldiers were also killed that morning. It was Independence Day back home, a public holiday for celebrations, yet for US Army service-personnel in West Germany the day was one of horror. West German, and later foreign, media teams were all over Giessen with images flashed around the world of a hospital which had met the full face of war. East Germany was directly responsible for what happened there, yet the Coalition and the West German government both would be subject to furious anger by those who blamed them for ‘allowing’ for such a thing to happen. Chancellor Schäuble would be back on the phone to his erstwhile allies imploring them to cease their air campaign. Sympathies were expressed for the loss of civilian life with medical assistance offered but Coalition leaders affirmed their intentions to continue. President Cuomo, briefed on the deaths of all of those soldiers, told Schäuble that full blame lay at the feet of Margot Honecker; replies from Fabius and Heseltine in Paris and London were similar though spoken more softly than what was heard from Washington. In the aftermath of the missile attacks, Coalition and East German military activity continued throughout the daylight hours of July 4th. Air operations by Coalition aircraft took place across the DDR and down into the Czech Republic as well. Not as heavy as those in night-time, there were air strikes which still took place. East German Army units dispersed away from garrisons were targeted. So too were suspected air facilities where the LSK had hidden away its aircraft ready to use at will. None of them came up during the day, giving Coalition free reign to fly over East Germany unchallenged by interceptors. There were a lot of fighters flying about ready for that to happen though. The night-time ambush near to Potsdam had been costly but had been where the LSK had dared to expose itself so brazenly. Many Coalition fighter pilots went looking for a fight with the MiG-29s yet to no avail. East German SAMs and anti-aircraft fire challenged the mass violation of air sovereignty. They took their toll too where they were emerging as victors from the cat-and-mouse games with Wild Weasels and HARM-shooters. Four Coalition aircraft – two American F-16s, an RAF Harrier and a French Mirage F-1 – were brought down with a handful of further aircraft damaged. To add to the Coalition’s woes when it came to enemy SAMs, a pair of unseen SA-10 batteries, operating only within a few miles of the Inner-German Border despite all efforts to defeat such an attempt, fired off missiles into West German airspace. They managed to hit and bring down a Nimrod R1 signals intelligence aircraft and also cause major damage to a US Air Force E-8 JSTARS: the aircraft put down hard at Rhein-Main and would never fly again. Those high-profile targets had been far from where the action was supposed to be and undertaking important work to aid the air campaign. A combined British and Dutch air effort in the Harz Mountains would fail to locate that SA-10 system which had fired on the Nimrod but the Americans got the other launcher down in the Thuringwald. A-10 attack-fighters, flying low and slow inside East German airspace, dodging man-portable SAMs as well as anti-aircraft guns, caught sight of the guilty SA-10 battery on the move. Maverick missiles followed by short bursts of fire from their 30mm cannons blew the battery to tiny pieces… and those too who operated it. A loss like that, as well as the damage done to a SA-15 battery by Danish F-16s firing HARMs before dropping bombs in the follow-up, were losses that hurt the East German air defence network as much as their hits of aircraft did to the Coalition. As to those A-10s which made that attack in the Thuringwald, the chain of mountainous forests which ran through the middle of Thuringia, they were flying out of Sembach where there was a big presence of them: US Air Force and Air Reserve aircraft were there with a squadron of Air National Guard A-10s due to join them. Their mission was to go into East German airspace but not operate too deep as other Coalition aircraft were doing. Moreover, their flights were part of a joint USAF / US Army operation in the Inner-German Border area. The latter fielded Task Force Phoenix, which consisted of various helicopter detachments from the US V Corps. There were Apaches, Cobras, Kiowas, Black Hawks and Hueys spread out across the West German countryside with the headquarters at the twice-targeted Hanau AAF. Among the US Army Europe, at US EUCOM and back in the Pentagon too, the matter of TF Phoenix was controversial. It was mandated upon high that US Army aviation assets would work with the US Air Force to take part in Operation Allied Sword. The cooperation was meant to be larger than what had seen against the Iraqis four years beforehand and was part of the ‘modern’ US Armed Forces for the 1990s. Hunting missiles – ballistic and SAMs – was the remit for combined ops as well as helping to go after downed aircrew. Helicopters flew into East German airspace on attack missions with a real effort made come the second day of air activity. A flight of Apaches located and destroyed a short-range SAM battery while another hit a suspected Scud battery. East German border guards were engaged too. Escorted by Black Hawks fitted with the Quick Fix electronic warfare system for strike escort, more Apache gunships went as far forward as to the town of Suhl right up in the Thuringwald before F-15Es made a low-level daylight attack against a hidden airstrip nearby. TF Phoenix shot-up air defences ahead of the F-15Es making their bomb run with excellent cooperation seen. One of the Black Hawks was hit by sustained anti-aircraft fire on the way out though and crashed in flames killing everyone aboard. TF Phoenix itself came under attack. Two of their own dispersed airstrips where the helicopters were flying from, near to Fulda, were fired upon by Scarabs that the East Germans used in an evening attack. Another site near to Hof, where Bavaria met Saxony with the Inner-German Border in between, faced a different ballistic attack. The DDR fired FROG-7 guided rockets right before night fell. Those were East German Army weapons – other ballistic missiles ultimately belonged to the LSK – which slammed into the TF Phoenix field base. One missed though, going wide and hitting the edge of Hof itself where five civilians died as their house collapsed atop of them. F-16s would later get the launch battery, smashing it apart before it could reach its hiding position, but that was little consolation for the American soldiers and the West German family who’d died ahead of that. The conflict between East Germany and the coalition had other theatres of war too. West Berlin faced long-range mortar and then artillery fire on the second day. Enemy guns shot off shells from far outside of the Berlin Wall – to the north and south – which crashed into military positions within the city. The shelling was accurate and timely. Spotters, spies within the confines of the city, were rightly suspected as having called in the shelling which killed American and French soldiers and also a handful of civilians too. Apart from that, there was no further activity. Troops on duty in West Berlin (British ones as well) waited for the inevitable invasion just like the mass of civilians trapped there with them. When it would come, no one knew, yet it was considered certain by those on the ground. Coalition political leaders still regarded that as unlikely though less the DDR wish to thoroughly expand the conflict to one where a seized West Berlin would have to be liberated. In Washington, London & Paris, they were certain that Honecker wouldn’t want to see that just as much as they didn’t either. Down in the Czech Republic, East German military activity had come to a standstill due to their homeland under severe attack. The front-lines of the civil war had stalled once the Poles had filled a small portion of the remaining part of the country under Czech government control with their own soldiers. Without DDR support to push them out, the Czech rebels wouldn’t finish the job. Air attacks by American and French aircraft (the French were concentrating solely on the Czech Republic) had done immense damage and continued to do that against the desires of East Germany’s Candidate X up in Prague to fully ‘liberate’ his country. Two nights of heavy bomb attacks, followed by a second day of less intensive action, hurt his military forces significantly. News came that the Poles were reinforcing too now that DDR air activity against them had ceased. They were moving in another division. More than that, Polish Army elements were redeploying away from garrisons on home soil as well. They were building up forces in both Pomerania and Silesia. East German military intelligence had eyes upon that with many worrying possible scenarios plotted out as to what the end result of that might be. The Volksarmee was following political direction that said that Operation Allied Sword was the air prelude to a ground invasion no matter what Coalition political leaders said. Full mobilisation for a people’s war to defend every metre of the country’s soil was still underway though the Polish movements complicated matters significantly. In Warsaw, a HVA spy there reported back to East Berlin that the American-led Coalition military liaison team to Poland had a fixed base of operations. Stasi chief Schwanitz went to the Prenden bunker where Honecker was. He strongly recommended a missile strike upon Warsaw to hit that Coalition staff as well as ‘regime targets’ too. Honecker refused: the time wasn’t ripe for that, the diplomatic outcome wouldn’t be favourable either. It wasn’t a definite ‘no’ for not striking at any point but Schwanitz left Prenden angry at such a refusal because he saw no better time than then. At the southern end of the Oresund, between Zealand and the lowest reaches of Sweden, Coalition warships had run a naval barricade to bar the way for hostile vessels seeking to cross that waterway. The Swedes, the Finns, the Baltic States and the Russians had all made strong complaints about that as well as international shipping countries. The Danish Straits were guaranteed to be open to all under long-standing international law. They weren’t closed though, so said Copenhagen and Washington, just well monitored. Warships, aircraft and submarines there were in-place to stop East German warships as well as disguised blockade runners. The disruption from the armed presence, where commercial shipping was subject to being stopped for inspections, was significant. In addition, insurers had already quadrupled prices fearing that the Baltic Exits would be a war-zone. Swedish naval vessels were out while communications between Stockholm and Copenhagen got rather heated. Late on July 4th, a Swedish armed corvette escorted two Swedish-flagged merchant ships towards the Oresund. Those vessels wouldn’t be stopped for inspections nor waylaid at all following the latest round of Danish-Swedish talks. The merchants ships were intending to go their own way once out of the Oresund with distant destinations. The largest one of the pair was heading towards Baltimore on the US East Coast. Unbeknown to the crew aboard, or those on the corvette, into the slipstream of that vessel went another. Just below the surface, trailing a much larger vessel dangerously close was the Oder. East Germany’s lone submarine tried to slip through the defences placed in its way and get out into open waters on the other side of Denmark. It was a daring attempt, especially for an inexperienced crew aboard that Kilo. It didn’t work though. The Kilo was a quiet submarine but not silent enough. A sudden, rough move was made by the merchantman up above and – to save his sub – the East German captain had to respond. The Royal Navy was all over him pretty damn fast. It was mostly Danish naval forces active in the Oresund area but the Americans, the Norwegians and the British too were there. Flying from off HMS Campbeltown, a Royal Navy multi-role frigate, were two Lynx HMA8 helicopters. One of them got a whiff of the Oder and dropped sonobuoys while also calling in further support. Those were heard hitting the water and the East German sub captain did what he had to and evaded a certain incoming attack where those would be followed by torpedoes. He launched noise-makers and dove while breaking fast for wider waters than the upcoming tight Oresund. There would be all sorts of activity up above – angry Swedes among them – but the Coalition wouldn’t get a line upon the Oder. First, why the heck is West Germany trying to do nothing when its negibor is atacking allies who have helped defend it for almost 50 years, secondly, so it seems that Oder lives to fight another day.
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gillan1220
Fleet admiral
I've been depressed recently. Slow replies coming in the next few days.
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Post by gillan1220 on Oct 5, 2021 6:20:20 GMT
I'm seven chapters behind. I'm gonna need to binge read these.
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stevep
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Post by stevep on Oct 5, 2021 9:48:17 GMT
Thirty-two – Second strikeOnce again, following a night of air strikes, the East Germans waited until the next morning before they made a retaliation. The second strike using ballistic missiles was different from the first one the day beforehand though. There were fewer distant targets, less missiles and change in tactics too. In addition, rather than at twilight, the strike came once the sun was up and was also less confined within a short time period. To open the attack, the longer-range and more accurate Spiders were used. Just four of them flew. One each went after RAF Bruggen and Spangdahlem AB again, main operating bases within West Germany for the British and American air activity respectively. Patriots fired by the US Army failed to stop Spangdahlem being hit with the missile landing within the base perimeter; no defensive missiles came out of Bruggen to defeat the almost-perfect hit there too. Damage was done and there were a few casualties but, once more, air operations would soon be able to continue following a clean-up and sweep of the runways from blast fragments. Volkel AB in the Netherlands was another target with both the Dutch and the Americans using that facility. Dutch Patriots were fired, aiming to repeat the (ultimately bittersweet) success of the night beforehand yet they failed to hit the inbound missile. The Spider missed its target though and blew up close by within the small town of Uden: two civilians were killed. The US European Command HQ at Patch Barracks was struck by the fourth missile. The previous strike had missed it, and Stuttgart entirely, but that Spider on the morning of July 4th was spot on. It demolished the targeted building and killed nine US service-personnel. Others sheltering belowground were left shaken but unharmed. Sembach AB, a US Air Force base in the Rhineland which hadn’t been targeted the last time around, got hit by two Scuds. One detonated above the (empty) base housing while the second crashed just off the flight-line where there was no detonation of its warhead. Missile fuel went up leading to a big fire there. Two helicopters were destroyed in that when it spread rapidly in the face of all efforts to control it and the flames also engulfed a hanger in which sat a damaged DC-130A. That was drone control aircraft which had been busy firing off Frisbee missile lures into East Germany during the night seeking to expose the positions of SAMs for attacks by Wild Weasel aircraft. It had returned to Sembach and made a hard landing – pilot error was to blame – before being pulled into a hangar. The fire destroyed it entirely. Lone Scuds as well as short-range Scarabs not going far out of the borders of the DDR completed the second strike. They didn’t fly very far and went after a wholly different target set. Those were garrisons for American and British soldiers within West Germany. Bergen, Celle, Gutersloh, Hohne, and Osnabrück (again) were struck with barracks facilities within each town taken under attack. There were eight civilian deaths in Celle and another single fatality of an innocent in Osnabrück: thirteen British soldiers also died. The US Army in the central & southern portions of West Germany got it harder than that. Ansbach, Bamberg, Darmstadt, Giessen, Hanau (struck like the night before), Vilseck and Wiesbaden all came under ballistic missile attack. Hanau and Wiesbaden were defended by Patriot coverage with one Scud taken out despite much effort to eliminate more of them. An off-course Scarab aimed at Pendelton Barracks in Giessen exploded above a street outside the small city’s hospital. Twenty deaths were caused among patients and also civilians rushing to a nearby air raid shelter. It was a massacre, one alongside nine more losses to innocent life in Bamberg, Darmstadt and Vilseck combined too. Forty-three American soldiers were also killed that morning. It was Independence Day back home, a public holiday for celebrations, yet for US Army service-personnel in West Germany the day was one of horror. West German, and later foreign, media teams were all over Giessen with images flashed around the world of a hospital which had met the full face of war. East Germany was directly responsible for what happened there, yet the Coalition and the West German government both would be subject to furious anger by those who blamed them for ‘allowing’ for such a thing to happen. Chancellor Schäuble would be back on the phone to his erstwhile allies imploring them to cease their air campaign. Sympathies were expressed for the loss of civilian life with medical assistance offered but Coalition leaders affirmed their intentions to continue. President Cuomo, briefed on the deaths of all of those soldiers, told Schäuble that full blame lay at the feet of Margot Honecker; replies from Fabius and Heseltine in Paris and London were similar though spoken more softly than what was heard from Washington. In the aftermath of the missile attacks, Coalition and East German military activity continued throughout the daylight hours of July 4th. Air operations by Coalition aircraft took place across the DDR and down into the Czech Republic as well. Not as heavy as those in night-time, there were air strikes which still took place. East German Army units dispersed away from garrisons were targeted. So too were suspected air facilities where the LSK had hidden away its aircraft ready to use at will. None of them came up during the day, giving Coalition free reign to fly over East Germany unchallenged by interceptors. There were a lot of fighters flying about ready for that to happen though. The night-time ambush near to Potsdam had been costly but had been where the LSK had dared to expose itself so brazenly. Many Coalition fighter pilots went looking for a fight with the MiG-29s yet to no avail. East German SAMs and anti-aircraft fire challenged the mass violation of air sovereignty. They took their toll too where they were emerging as victors from the cat-and-mouse games with Wild Weasels and HARM-shooters. Four Coalition aircraft – two American F-16s, an RAF Harrier and a French Mirage F-1 – were brought down with a handful of further aircraft damaged. To add to the Coalition’s woes when it came to enemy SAMs, a pair of unseen SA-10 batteries, operating only within a few miles of the Inner-German Border despite all efforts to defeat such an attempt, fired off missiles into West German airspace. They managed to hit and bring down a Nimrod R1 signals intelligence aircraft and also cause major damage to a US Air Force E-8 JSTARS: the aircraft put down hard at Rhein-Main and would never fly again. Those high-profile targets had been far from where the action was supposed to be and undertaking important work to aid the air campaign. A combined British and Dutch air effort in the Harz Mountains would fail to locate that SA-10 system which had fired on the Nimrod but the Americans got the other launcher down in the Thuringwald. A-10 attack-fighters, flying low and slow inside East German airspace, dodging man-portable SAMs as well as anti-aircraft guns, caught sight of the guilty SA-10 battery on the move. Maverick missiles followed by short bursts of fire from their 30mm cannons blew the battery to tiny pieces… and those too who operated it. A loss like that, as well as the damage done to a SA-15 battery by Danish F-16s firing HARMs before dropping bombs in the follow-up, were losses that hurt the East German air defence network as much as their hits of aircraft did to the Coalition. As to those A-10s which made that attack in the Thuringwald, the chain of mountainous forests which ran through the middle of Thuringia, they were flying out of Sembach where there was a big presence of them: US Air Force and Air Reserve aircraft were there with a squadron of Air National Guard A-10s due to join them. Their mission was to go into East German airspace but not operate too deep as other Coalition aircraft were doing. Moreover, their flights were part of a joint USAF / US Army operation in the Inner-German Border area. The latter fielded Task Force Phoenix, which consisted of various helicopter detachments from the US V Corps. There were Apaches, Cobras, Kiowas, Black Hawks and Hueys spread out across the West German countryside with the headquarters at the twice-targeted Hanau AAF. Among the US Army Europe, at US EUCOM and back in the Pentagon too, the matter of TF Phoenix was controversial. It was mandated upon high that US Army aviation assets would work with the US Air Force to take part in Operation Allied Sword. The cooperation was meant to be larger than what had seen against the Iraqis four years beforehand and was part of the ‘modern’ US Armed Forces for the 1990s. Hunting missiles – ballistic and SAMs – was the remit for combined ops as well as helping to go after downed aircrew. Helicopters flew into East German airspace on attack missions with a real effort made come the second day of air activity. A flight of Apaches located and destroyed a short-range SAM battery while another hit a suspected Scud battery. East German border guards were engaged too. Escorted by Black Hawks fitted with the Quick Fix electronic warfare system for strike escort, more Apache gunships went as far forward as to the town of Suhl right up in the Thuringwald before F-15Es made a low-level daylight attack against a hidden airstrip nearby. TF Phoenix shot-up air defences ahead of the F-15Es making their bomb run with excellent cooperation seen. One of the Black Hawks was hit by sustained anti-aircraft fire on the way out though and crashed in flames killing everyone aboard. TF Phoenix itself came under attack. Two of their own dispersed airstrips where the helicopters were flying from, near to Fulda, were fired upon by Scarabs that the East Germans used in an evening attack. Another site near to Hof, where Bavaria met Saxony with the Inner-German Border in between, faced a different ballistic attack. The DDR fired FROG-7 guided rockets right before night fell. Those were East German Army weapons – other ballistic missiles ultimately belonged to the LSK – which slammed into the TF Phoenix field base. One missed though, going wide and hitting the edge of Hof itself where five civilians died as their house collapsed atop of them. F-16s would later get the launch battery, smashing it apart before it could reach its hiding position, but that was little consolation for the American soldiers and the West German family who’d died ahead of that. The conflict between East Germany and the coalition had other theatres of war too. West Berlin faced long-range mortar and then artillery fire on the second day. Enemy guns shot off shells from far outside of the Berlin Wall – to the north and south – which crashed into military positions within the city. The shelling was accurate and timely. Spotters, spies within the confines of the city, were rightly suspected as having called in the shelling which killed American and French soldiers and also a handful of civilians too. Apart from that, there was no further activity. Troops on duty in West Berlin (British ones as well) waited for the inevitable invasion just like the mass of civilians trapped there with them. When it would come, no one knew, yet it was considered certain by those on the ground. Coalition political leaders still regarded that as unlikely though less the DDR wish to thoroughly expand the conflict to one where a seized West Berlin would have to be liberated. In Washington, London & Paris, they were certain that Honecker wouldn’t want to see that just as much as they didn’t either. Down in the Czech Republic, East German military activity had come to a standstill due to their homeland under severe attack. The front-lines of the civil war had stalled once the Poles had filled a small portion of the remaining part of the country under Czech government control with their own soldiers. Without DDR support to push them out, the Czech rebels wouldn’t finish the job. Air attacks by American and French aircraft (the French were concentrating solely on the Czech Republic) had done immense damage and continued to do that against the desires of East Germany’s Candidate X up in Prague to fully ‘liberate’ his country. Two nights of heavy bomb attacks, followed by a second day of less intensive action, hurt his military forces significantly. News came that the Poles were reinforcing too now that DDR air activity against them had ceased. They were moving in another division. More than that, Polish Army elements were redeploying away from garrisons on home soil as well. They were building up forces in both Pomerania and Silesia. East German military intelligence had eyes upon that with many worrying possible scenarios plotted out as to what the end result of that might be. The Volksarmee was following political direction that said that Operation Allied Sword was the air prelude to a ground invasion no matter what Coalition political leaders said. Full mobilisation for a people’s war to defend every metre of the country’s soil was still underway though the Polish movements complicated matters significantly. In Warsaw, a HVA spy there reported back to East Berlin that the American-led Coalition military liaison team to Poland had a fixed base of operations. Stasi chief Schwanitz went to the Prenden bunker where Honecker was. He strongly recommended a missile strike upon Warsaw to hit that Coalition staff as well as ‘regime targets’ too. Honecker refused: the time wasn’t ripe for that, the diplomatic outcome wouldn’t be favourable either. It wasn’t a definite ‘no’ for not striking at any point but Schwanitz left Prenden angry at such a refusal because he saw no better time than then. At the southern end of the Oresund, between Zealand and the lowest reaches of Sweden, Coalition warships had run a naval barricade to bar the way for hostile vessels seeking to cross that waterway. The Swedes, the Finns, the Baltic States and the Russians had all made strong complaints about that as well as international shipping countries. The Danish Straits were guaranteed to be open to all under long-standing international law. They weren’t closed though, so said Copenhagen and Washington, just well monitored. Warships, aircraft and submarines there were in-place to stop East German warships as well as disguised blockade runners. The disruption from the armed presence, where commercial shipping was subject to being stopped for inspections, was significant. In addition, insurers had already quadrupled prices fearing that the Baltic Exits would be a war-zone. Swedish naval vessels were out while communications between Stockholm and Copenhagen got rather heated. Late on July 4th, a Swedish armed corvette escorted two Swedish-flagged merchant ships towards the Oresund. Those vessels wouldn’t be stopped for inspections nor waylaid at all following the latest round of Danish-Swedish talks. The merchants ships were intending to go their own way once out of the Oresund with distant destinations. The largest one of the pair was heading towards Baltimore on the US East Coast. Unbeknown to the crew aboard, or those on the corvette, into the slipstream of that vessel went another. Just below the surface, trailing a much larger vessel dangerously close was the Oder. East Germany’s lone submarine tried to slip through the defences placed in its way and get out into open waters on the other side of Denmark. It was a daring attempt, especially for an inexperienced crew aboard that Kilo. It didn’t work though. The Kilo was a quiet submarine but not silent enough. A sudden, rough move was made by the merchantman up above and – to save his sub – the East German captain had to respond. The Royal Navy was all over him pretty damn fast. It was mostly Danish naval forces active in the Oresund area but the Americans, the Norwegians and the British too were there. Flying from off HMS Campbeltown, a Royal Navy multi-role frigate, were two Lynx HMA8 helicopters. One of them got a whiff of the Oder and dropped sonobuoys while also calling in further support. Those were heard hitting the water and the East German sub captain did what he had to and evaded a certain incoming attack where those would be followed by torpedoes. He launched noise-makers and dove while breaking fast for wider waters than the upcoming tight Oresund. There would be all sorts of activity up above – angry Swedes among them – but the Coalition wouldn’t get a line upon the Oder. First, why the heck is West Germany trying to do nothing when its negibor is atacking allies who have helped defend it for almost 50 years, secondly, so it seems that Oder lives to fight another day.
Because the government and population are deeply divided over the entire issue, especially since that neighbour is another German state. Partly because too many are believing GDR propaganda but mostly I think that the focus of the operation is E Germany.
At the moment the government is doing nothing really either way but there's a distinct danger that you could see popular movements to block allied operations against E Germany, which the western government may not oppose. That could present serious issues for the allies operations in W Germany as well as future relations between it and the other allied powers.
One thing the allies might try and do is call on Bonn to talk to E Berlin about stopping the bombardment of W Berlin and also remove the blockade of food supplies at least. Otherwise there could be a serious disaster in the enclave due to problems with food and power supplies for instance. It probably won't work as the regime could be relying on the allied garrisons to surrender to avoid such a disaster but it would show W Germany how little influence they have over the east and also divert anger in the west a bit.
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James G
Squadron vice admiral
Posts: 7,608
Likes: 8,833
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Post by James G on Oct 5, 2021 18:22:33 GMT
Thirty-two – Second strikeOnce again, following a night of air strikes, the East Germans waited until the next morning before they made a retaliation. The second strike using ballistic missiles was different from the first one the day beforehand though. There were fewer distant targets, less missiles and change in tactics too. In addition, rather than at twilight, the strike came once the sun was up and was also less confined within a short time period. To open the attack, the longer-range and more accurate Spiders were used. Just four of them flew. One each went after RAF Bruggen and Spangdahlem AB again, main operating bases within West Germany for the British and American air activity respectively. Patriots fired by the US Army failed to stop Spangdahlem being hit with the missile landing within the base perimeter; no defensive missiles came out of Bruggen to defeat the almost-perfect hit there too. Damage was done and there were a few casualties but, once more, air operations would soon be able to continue following a clean-up and sweep of the runways from blast fragments. Volkel AB in the Netherlands was another target with both the Dutch and the Americans using that facility. Dutch Patriots were fired, aiming to repeat the (ultimately bittersweet) success of the night beforehand yet they failed to hit the inbound missile. The Spider missed its target though and blew up close by within the small town of Uden: two civilians were killed. The US European Command HQ at Patch Barracks was struck by the fourth missile. The previous strike had missed it, and Stuttgart entirely, but that Spider on the morning of July 4th was spot on. It demolished the targeted building and killed nine US service-personnel. Others sheltering belowground were left shaken but unharmed. Sembach AB, a US Air Force base in the Rhineland which hadn’t been targeted the last time around, got hit by two Scuds. One detonated above the (empty) base housing while the second crashed just off the flight-line where there was no detonation of its warhead. Missile fuel went up leading to a big fire there. Two helicopters were destroyed in that when it spread rapidly in the face of all efforts to control it and the flames also engulfed a hanger in which sat a damaged DC-130A. That was drone control aircraft which had been busy firing off Frisbee missile lures into East Germany during the night seeking to expose the positions of SAMs for attacks by Wild Weasel aircraft. It had returned to Sembach and made a hard landing – pilot error was to blame – before being pulled into a hangar. The fire destroyed it entirely. Lone Scuds as well as short-range Scarabs not going far out of the borders of the DDR completed the second strike. They didn’t fly very far and went after a wholly different target set. Those were garrisons for American and British soldiers within West Germany. Bergen, Celle, Gutersloh, Hohne, and Osnabrück (again) were struck with barracks facilities within each town taken under attack. There were eight civilian deaths in Celle and another single fatality of an innocent in Osnabrück: thirteen British soldiers also died. The US Army in the central & southern portions of West Germany got it harder than that. Ansbach, Bamberg, Darmstadt, Giessen, Hanau (struck like the night before), Vilseck and Wiesbaden all came under ballistic missile attack. Hanau and Wiesbaden were defended by Patriot coverage with one Scud taken out despite much effort to eliminate more of them. An off-course Scarab aimed at Pendelton Barracks in Giessen exploded above a street outside the small city’s hospital. Twenty deaths were caused among patients and also civilians rushing to a nearby air raid shelter. It was a massacre, one alongside nine more losses to innocent life in Bamberg, Darmstadt and Vilseck combined too. Forty-three American soldiers were also killed that morning. It was Independence Day back home, a public holiday for celebrations, yet for US Army service-personnel in West Germany the day was one of horror. West German, and later foreign, media teams were all over Giessen with images flashed around the world of a hospital which had met the full face of war. East Germany was directly responsible for what happened there, yet the Coalition and the West German government both would be subject to furious anger by those who blamed them for ‘allowing’ for such a thing to happen. Chancellor Schäuble would be back on the phone to his erstwhile allies imploring them to cease their air campaign. Sympathies were expressed for the loss of civilian life with medical assistance offered but Coalition leaders affirmed their intentions to continue. President Cuomo, briefed on the deaths of all of those soldiers, told Schäuble that full blame lay at the feet of Margot Honecker; replies from Fabius and Heseltine in Paris and London were similar though spoken more softly than what was heard from Washington. In the aftermath of the missile attacks, Coalition and East German military activity continued throughout the daylight hours of July 4th. Air operations by Coalition aircraft took place across the DDR and down into the Czech Republic as well. Not as heavy as those in night-time, there were air strikes which still took place. East German Army units dispersed away from garrisons were targeted. So too were suspected air facilities where the LSK had hidden away its aircraft ready to use at will. None of them came up during the day, giving Coalition free reign to fly over East Germany unchallenged by interceptors. There were a lot of fighters flying about ready for that to happen though. The night-time ambush near to Potsdam had been costly but had been where the LSK had dared to expose itself so brazenly. Many Coalition fighter pilots went looking for a fight with the MiG-29s yet to no avail. East German SAMs and anti-aircraft fire challenged the mass violation of air sovereignty. They took their toll too where they were emerging as victors from the cat-and-mouse games with Wild Weasels and HARM-shooters. Four Coalition aircraft – two American F-16s, an RAF Harrier and a French Mirage F-1 – were brought down with a handful of further aircraft damaged. To add to the Coalition’s woes when it came to enemy SAMs, a pair of unseen SA-10 batteries, operating only within a few miles of the Inner-German Border despite all efforts to defeat such an attempt, fired off missiles into West German airspace. They managed to hit and bring down a Nimrod R1 signals intelligence aircraft and also cause major damage to a US Air Force E-8 JSTARS: the aircraft put down hard at Rhein-Main and would never fly again. Those high-profile targets had been far from where the action was supposed to be and undertaking important work to aid the air campaign. A combined British and Dutch air effort in the Harz Mountains would fail to locate that SA-10 system which had fired on the Nimrod but the Americans got the other launcher down in the Thuringwald. A-10 attack-fighters, flying low and slow inside East German airspace, dodging man-portable SAMs as well as anti-aircraft guns, caught sight of the guilty SA-10 battery on the move. Maverick missiles followed by short bursts of fire from their 30mm cannons blew the battery to tiny pieces… and those too who operated it. A loss like that, as well as the damage done to a SA-15 battery by Danish F-16s firing HARMs before dropping bombs in the follow-up, were losses that hurt the East German air defence network as much as their hits of aircraft did to the Coalition. As to those A-10s which made that attack in the Thuringwald, the chain of mountainous forests which ran through the middle of Thuringia, they were flying out of Sembach where there was a big presence of them: US Air Force and Air Reserve aircraft were there with a squadron of Air National Guard A-10s due to join them. Their mission was to go into East German airspace but not operate too deep as other Coalition aircraft were doing. Moreover, their flights were part of a joint USAF / US Army operation in the Inner-German Border area. The latter fielded Task Force Phoenix, which consisted of various helicopter detachments from the US V Corps. There were Apaches, Cobras, Kiowas, Black Hawks and Hueys spread out across the West German countryside with the headquarters at the twice-targeted Hanau AAF. Among the US Army Europe, at US EUCOM and back in the Pentagon too, the matter of TF Phoenix was controversial. It was mandated upon high that US Army aviation assets would work with the US Air Force to take part in Operation Allied Sword. The cooperation was meant to be larger than what had seen against the Iraqis four years beforehand and was part of the ‘modern’ US Armed Forces for the 1990s. Hunting missiles – ballistic and SAMs – was the remit for combined ops as well as helping to go after downed aircrew. Helicopters flew into East German airspace on attack missions with a real effort made come the second day of air activity. A flight of Apaches located and destroyed a short-range SAM battery while another hit a suspected Scud battery. East German border guards were engaged too. Escorted by Black Hawks fitted with the Quick Fix electronic warfare system for strike escort, more Apache gunships went as far forward as to the town of Suhl right up in the Thuringwald before F-15Es made a low-level daylight attack against a hidden airstrip nearby. TF Phoenix shot-up air defences ahead of the F-15Es making their bomb run with excellent cooperation seen. One of the Black Hawks was hit by sustained anti-aircraft fire on the way out though and crashed in flames killing everyone aboard. TF Phoenix itself came under attack. Two of their own dispersed airstrips where the helicopters were flying from, near to Fulda, were fired upon by Scarabs that the East Germans used in an evening attack. Another site near to Hof, where Bavaria met Saxony with the Inner-German Border in between, faced a different ballistic attack. The DDR fired FROG-7 guided rockets right before night fell. Those were East German Army weapons – other ballistic missiles ultimately belonged to the LSK – which slammed into the TF Phoenix field base. One missed though, going wide and hitting the edge of Hof itself where five civilians died as their house collapsed atop of them. F-16s would later get the launch battery, smashing it apart before it could reach its hiding position, but that was little consolation for the American soldiers and the West German family who’d died ahead of that. The conflict between East Germany and the coalition had other theatres of war too. West Berlin faced long-range mortar and then artillery fire on the second day. Enemy guns shot off shells from far outside of the Berlin Wall – to the north and south – which crashed into military positions within the city. The shelling was accurate and timely. Spotters, spies within the confines of the city, were rightly suspected as having called in the shelling which killed American and French soldiers and also a handful of civilians too. Apart from that, there was no further activity. Troops on duty in West Berlin (British ones as well) waited for the inevitable invasion just like the mass of civilians trapped there with them. When it would come, no one knew, yet it was considered certain by those on the ground. Coalition political leaders still regarded that as unlikely though less the DDR wish to thoroughly expand the conflict to one where a seized West Berlin would have to be liberated. In Washington, London & Paris, they were certain that Honecker wouldn’t want to see that just as much as they didn’t either. Down in the Czech Republic, East German military activity had come to a standstill due to their homeland under severe attack. The front-lines of the civil war had stalled once the Poles had filled a small portion of the remaining part of the country under Czech government control with their own soldiers. Without DDR support to push them out, the Czech rebels wouldn’t finish the job. Air attacks by American and French aircraft (the French were concentrating solely on the Czech Republic) had done immense damage and continued to do that against the desires of East Germany’s Candidate X up in Prague to fully ‘liberate’ his country. Two nights of heavy bomb attacks, followed by a second day of less intensive action, hurt his military forces significantly. News came that the Poles were reinforcing too now that DDR air activity against them had ceased. They were moving in another division. More than that, Polish Army elements were redeploying away from garrisons on home soil as well. They were building up forces in both Pomerania and Silesia. East German military intelligence had eyes upon that with many worrying possible scenarios plotted out as to what the end result of that might be. The Volksarmee was following political direction that said that Operation Allied Sword was the air prelude to a ground invasion no matter what Coalition political leaders said. Full mobilisation for a people’s war to defend every metre of the country’s soil was still underway though the Polish movements complicated matters significantly. In Warsaw, a HVA spy there reported back to East Berlin that the American-led Coalition military liaison team to Poland had a fixed base of operations. Stasi chief Schwanitz went to the Prenden bunker where Honecker was. He strongly recommended a missile strike upon Warsaw to hit that Coalition staff as well as ‘regime targets’ too. Honecker refused: the time wasn’t ripe for that, the diplomatic outcome wouldn’t be favourable either. It wasn’t a definite ‘no’ for not striking at any point but Schwanitz left Prenden angry at such a refusal because he saw no better time than then. At the southern end of the Oresund, between Zealand and the lowest reaches of Sweden, Coalition warships had run a naval barricade to bar the way for hostile vessels seeking to cross that waterway. The Swedes, the Finns, the Baltic States and the Russians had all made strong complaints about that as well as international shipping countries. The Danish Straits were guaranteed to be open to all under long-standing international law. They weren’t closed though, so said Copenhagen and Washington, just well monitored. Warships, aircraft and submarines there were in-place to stop East German warships as well as disguised blockade runners. The disruption from the armed presence, where commercial shipping was subject to being stopped for inspections, was significant. In addition, insurers had already quadrupled prices fearing that the Baltic Exits would be a war-zone. Swedish naval vessels were out while communications between Stockholm and Copenhagen got rather heated. Late on July 4th, a Swedish armed corvette escorted two Swedish-flagged merchant ships towards the Oresund. Those vessels wouldn’t be stopped for inspections nor waylaid at all following the latest round of Danish-Swedish talks. The merchants ships were intending to go their own way once out of the Oresund with distant destinations. The largest one of the pair was heading towards Baltimore on the US East Coast. Unbeknown to the crew aboard, or those on the corvette, into the slipstream of that vessel went another. Just below the surface, trailing a much larger vessel dangerously close was the Oder. East Germany’s lone submarine tried to slip through the defences placed in its way and get out into open waters on the other side of Denmark. It was a daring attempt, especially for an inexperienced crew aboard that Kilo. It didn’t work though. The Kilo was a quiet submarine but not silent enough. A sudden, rough move was made by the merchantman up above and – to save his sub – the East German captain had to respond. The Royal Navy was all over him pretty damn fast. It was mostly Danish naval forces active in the Oresund area but the Americans, the Norwegians and the British too were there. Flying from off HMS Campbeltown, a Royal Navy multi-role frigate, were two Lynx HMA8 helicopters. One of them got a whiff of the Oder and dropped sonobuoys while also calling in further support. Those were heard hitting the water and the East German sub captain did what he had to and evaded a certain incoming attack where those would be followed by torpedoes. He launched noise-makers and dove while breaking fast for wider waters than the upcoming tight Oresund. There would be all sorts of activity up above – angry Swedes among them – but the Coalition wouldn’t get a line upon the Oder. First, why the heck is West Germany trying to do nothing when its negibor is atacking allies who have helped defend it for almost 50 years, secondly, so it seems that Oder lives to fight another day. Lots of reasons. Their allies have sh*t all over them, they don't believe the cause is right, they are suffering directly. They want it to stop. The sub escaped but is still very exposed there. I'm seven chapters behind. I'm gonna need to binge read these. There's a lot to get through. It'll be another long story, at least through the rest of this year.
Because the government and population are deeply divided over the entire issue, especially since that neighbour is another German state. Partly because too many are believing GDR propaganda but mostly I think that the focus of the operation is E Germany.
At the moment the government is doing nothing really either way but there's a distinct danger that you could see popular movements to block allied operations against E Germany, which the western government may not oppose. That could present serious issues for the allies operations in W Germany as well as future relations between it and the other allied powers.
One thing the allies might try and do is call on Bonn to talk to E Berlin about stopping the bombardment of W Berlin and also remove the blockade of food supplies at least. Otherwise there could be a serious disaster in the enclave due to problems with food and power supplies for instance. It probably won't work as the regime could be relying on the allied garrisons to surrender to avoid such a disaster but it would show W Germany how little influence they have over the east and also divert anger in the west a bit.
Ideas, ideas, ideas! The anti-war opposition in West Germany is strong though, I agree, that there will be some split there. Those against it are the loudest though. those who regretfully support it as necessary will get shouted down and blamed for the deaths of kids that the East German missiles cause.
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James G
Squadron vice admiral
Posts: 7,608
Likes: 8,833
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Post by James G on Oct 5, 2021 18:22:51 GMT
Thirty-three – Give peace a chance?
East German embassies in the ten Coalition countries had been forcibly closed with diplomats expelled via neutral countries. Elsewhere in the world, diplomatic compounds of the DDR where they were in nations friendly to America, Britain & France were the subject of intensive ‘security’ measures by local governments. Still, East Germans did have its diplomats working aboard. The embassy in Bonn was still open along with others across Europe. In New York, there was a presence at the United Nations – FBI agents overtly shadowed those working there to apply pressure on them – and the DDR still had people in Geneva too. The UN Office at Geneva (UNOG) was one of several global locations for that international body and was located where the League of Nations had once been headquarters. Swiss restrictions on the East Germans were minimal but they were wary of seeing their territory used for anything non-diplomatic: a warning had been given that there would be expulsions if necessary. It was at the historic Palais des Nations where there was a second attempt at using diplomacy to stop conflict with the Coalition. The pre-war Vienna undertaking had failed yet the DDR tried once more. And, like before, the West Germans were involved in that too.
East German’s permanent representative to the UNOG – he held all the privileges of rank benefiting an ambassador – followed direct instructions coming from the distant Prenden bunker near East Berlin to meet with his West German opposite number using the Swiss as intermediaries. Two days into the conflict with the Coalition, the pair of ambassadors sat down for a talk with a high-ranking official from the Swiss foreign ministry. East Germany put what it had on the table when first talks had been had in Austria yet also expanded upon that too. There was a willingness to meet the demands that had been imposed upon the DDR. Ballistic missile attacks would cease, with once more the suggestion made that the country would sign up to INF Treaty limitations, and East Germany would end its involvement in the Czech civil war as well. When it came to the matter of the alleged nuclear weapons programme, there was a denial that one was in development and rather ‘an admission’ that East Germany had been secretly seeking to create nuclear energy instead. Hands were held up: we were caught not doing things the proper way and made a mistake in how we dealt with the false assertions that it was more than it was. The DDR offered to at once hand over captives that it held in the form of Coalition aviators, releasing them promptly too, and also release the stranglehold that it had upon West Berlin. There was an effort made by the ambassador to talk to ‘his fellow German’ as a reasonable person seeking to end all of the ongoing death and destruction that the conflict was causing both of their nations. When the conversation turned to West German civilian losses, the DDR’s representative spoke of all of those killed in his country yet still expressed what he said was solemn regret for that. An offer was made where his country would pay compensation to the families of those hurt and killed in West Germany without conditions. In reply to disbelief over the story of a peaceful nuclear energy programme, which the West German ambassador said he found rather unbelievable, there was talk of crippling energy prices from hydrocarbons that East Germany was long paying. As to the destroyed sites which American bombs had blown to pieces, there was the offer made of international inspectors from non-Coalition sources, even the West Germans themselves if need be, where the DDR would prove that it had made a grave mistake in what it did but certainly hadn’t been developing weapons of mass destruction. The Swiss diplomat present spoke of the Pentagon-released images of those blown up places though the East German said that while those looked dramatic, the damage done wasn’t that bad and there was still enough evidence on-site to show peaceful intent.
With regard to military captives, East Germany was willing to send them over first as well without a promise of something reciprocal. That surprised both the Swiss diplomat and the West German ambassador, but their guest expressed his country’s wish to see the conflict come to an end and so was willing to take that step into the dark by making the first move. The East German spoke more of West Berlin too. He said that he wanted to see access returned to that city due to the humanitarian concerns about all of those residents stuck there. It had only been cut off for the fear that the Coalition would use it as a staging post for attacks yet the DDR was willing, subject to guarantees and the presence somehow of neutral military forces to ensure that, maybe under a UN mandate, to allow for it to be freed as quickly as possible from isolation. If that took too long, humanitarian aid could be sent there from foreign sources via East Germany too. Peacekeepers were talked about when it came to the Czech Republic. Whether it be a UN, European or even a possible West German involvement, the DDR wouldn’t object to that either. The conflict there had taken many lives and East Germany desired an end to it all. The significant death toll in Erfurt was raised by the East German when his West German counterpart spoke of casualties in West Germany. The East German people were dying as a result of military action just as those across the Inner-German Border were. There had been further losses elsewhere too. No blame was apportioned to the West German government for that though. In a change of the previous DDR position, Bonn wasn’t regarded as responsible. The Swiss diplomat asked if East Germany considered itself responsible for those caused with West Germany. The DDR was defending itself, came the reply, and had only targeted military bases. An admission of blame was granted though as per the offer to pay monetary compensation to victim’s families. Moreover, a promise was made. East Germany was willing to halt its retaliatory ballistic missile strikes. They would cease even if more bombs fell upon the DDR. There was no timeline on how long that could continue for should his country be attacked, but the ambassador said that just as was the case with the prisoners subject to immediate release, East Germany would take the first step there as well.
All of this was presented as East Germany humbled and willing to do what was necessary to stop the killing of people taking place due to Operation Allied Sword. The objectives of the Coalition had been effectively met, so said the East German ambassador, though the cost of that was immense in terms of innocent lives lost. His country’s sovereignty had been gravely violated in a flagrant breach of international law, yet the DDR was willing to move past that. What was wanted was for West Germany, as an ally of all of those Coalition countries, to help them bring the killing to an end. The Swiss were likewise asked for help with it too being mentioned that East Germany was seeking to involve other neutral nations across Europe too – Austria, Spain and Sweden – as well as international organisations such as the UN, the IAEA and the EC. Would West Germany help to give peace a chance?
The French DGSE had had a microphone in the very room where the first contact in Vienna had been made by the East Germans seeking a last minute way out. There had in fact been a live broadcast of what had been said there direct from the Austrian capital. No such intelligence feat was had with the Geneva meeting though. Still, it was known about. The Swiss were unaware (but wouldn’t have been too surprised to discover) that the CIA had people in Geneva actively spying on the East German delegation there. The ambassador was followed to his meeting and his West German counterpart noted as turning up to meet him. Furthermore, when the latter got on the phone reporting back to Bonn, using what was though to be a secure line, the Americans listened-in on that conversation. The NSA had communications intercept stations on West German soil and tapped the lines of their ally there… they did that with other allies too, even ones politically closer to Washington than Bonn was. What was said was heard, shared among top-tier Coalition partners, and a response framed ahead of Chancellor Schäuble putting in a phone-call to President Cuomo for the second time that day.
Schäuble asked for the Coalition to call a halt to its air campaign. Peace was at hand. The East Germans were willing to give in and were making extraordinary undertakings to see an end to the loss of innocent life from continuing. There was a concession that they were still lying about their nuclear programme – Bonn had seen the evidence on that – but, just as had been said in Geneva, the Americans had blown to pieces those various sites within the DDR with their bombs. West Germany was willing to aid in every possible way with what was put on the table, from both sides too, and act either alone or in concert with others in that. Whatever it took, Schäuble said his country was willing to do that so that there could be an end to it all. He made a personal request of Cuomo, speaking of their previous friendship when meeting as international allies: cancel air operations as soon as possible including the ones due to go ahead on the night of July 4th. A starting point could come from there to see it all end.
Cuomo told him no. The East Germans were playing games. They were manipulating West Germany, using the deaths of civilians which they had directly caused themselves, as part of their emotional blackmail. Margot Honecker and her cohorts in East Berlin couldn’t be trusted. Those people there had started this whole mess by assassinating the Czech president, launching a coup & starting a civil war in Havel’s nation and then launched an undeclared war against West Germany via all of those missile attacks. In reply, and with a heavy heart, he said that the military capability of East Germany must be eliminated. There was too the nuclear issue. Cuomo wouldn’t play along with that. A peaceful nuclear energy solution to the DDR’s financial woes where they apparently bashfully admitted they shouldn’t have hidden that? Please… The Coalition would continue with its air attacks until there was satisfaction that the job was done. Cuomo welcomed the promised ceasefire of East German ballistic missiles into Schäuble’s country yet said that he didn’t believe that they would hold their word there. On the matter of West Berlin, yes the united States and its partners were seriously concerned about that city, but it was considered highly unlikely that an invasion would go into there. Honecker had been pre-warned that that would bring about a bigger response. Schäuble asked what that was, whether the Coalition would physically liberate that city if it was taken, but Cuomo wouldn’t be drawn on specifics. What he finished the call with was regret that everything had gone this far. He also told Schäuble that the West German government should seriously consider the wisdom of holding talks with the East Germans when that regime had killed so many innocent West Germans as an act of spite. The call ended not long before darkness fell across the divided Germany’s and back into action when the full might of Coalition air power against the DDR.
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lordroel
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Post by lordroel on Oct 5, 2021 18:49:15 GMT
Thirty-three – Give peace a chance?East German embassies in the ten Coalition countries had been forcibly closed with diplomats expelled via neutral countries. Elsewhere in the world, diplomatic compounds of the DDR where they were in nations friendly to America, Britain & France were the subject of intensive ‘security’ measures by local governments. Still, East Germans did have its diplomats working aboard. The embassy in Bonn was still open along with others across Europe. In New York, there was a presence at the United Nations – FBI agents overtly shadowed those working there to apply pressure on them – and the DDR still had people in Geneva too. The UN Office at Geneva (UNOG) was one of several global locations for that international body and was located where the League of Nations had once been headquarters. Swiss restrictions on the East Germans were minimal but they were wary of seeing their territory used for anything non-diplomatic: a warning had been given that there would be expulsions if necessary. It was at the historic Palais des Nations where there was a second attempt at using diplomacy to stop conflict with the Coalition. The pre-war Vienna undertaking had failed yet the DDR tried once more. And, like before, the West Germans were involved in that too. East German’s permanent representative to the UNOG – he held all the privileges of rank benefiting an ambassador – followed direct instructions coming from the distant Prenden bunker near East Berlin to meet with his West German opposite number using the Swiss as intermediaries. Two days into the conflict with the Coalition, the pair of ambassadors sat down for a talk with a high-ranking official from the Swiss foreign ministry. East Germany put what it had on the table when first talks had been had in Austria yet also expanded upon that too. There was a willingness to meet the demands that had been imposed upon the DDR. Ballistic missile attacks would cease, with once more the suggestion made that the country would sign up to INF Treaty limitations, and East Germany would end its involvement in the Czech civil war as well. When it came to the matter of the alleged nuclear weapons programme, there was a denial that one was in development and rather ‘an admission’ that East Germany had been secretly seeking to create nuclear energy instead. Hands were held up: we were caught not doing things the proper way and made a mistake in how we dealt with the false assertions that it was more than it was. The DDR offered to at once hand over captives that it held in the form of Coalition aviators, releasing them promptly too, and also release the stranglehold that it had upon West Berlin. There was an effort made by the ambassador to talk to ‘his fellow German’ as a reasonable person seeking to end all of the ongoing death and destruction that the conflict was causing both of their nations. When the conversation turned to West German civilian losses, the DDR’s representative spoke of all of those killed in his country yet still expressed what he said was solemn regret for that. An offer was made where his country would pay compensation to the families of those hurt and killed in West Germany without conditions. In reply to disbelief over the story of a peaceful nuclear energy programme, which the West German ambassador said he found rather unbelievable, there was talk of crippling energy prices from hydrocarbons that East Germany was long paying. As to the destroyed sites which American bombs had blown to pieces, there was the offer made of international inspectors from non-Coalition sources, even the West Germans themselves if need be, where the DDR would prove that it had made a grave mistake in what it did but certainly hadn’t been developing weapons of mass destruction. The Swiss diplomat present spoke of the Pentagon-released images of those blown up places though the East German said that while those looked dramatic, the damage done wasn’t that bad and there was still enough evidence on-site to show peaceful intent. With regard to military captives, East Germany was willing to send them over first as well without a promise of something reciprocal. That surprised both the Swiss diplomat and the West German ambassador, but their guest expressed his country’s wish to see the conflict come to an end and so was willing to take that step into the dark by making the first move. The East German spoke more of West Berlin too. He said that he wanted to see access returned to that city due to the humanitarian concerns about all of those residents stuck there. It had only been cut off for the fear that the Coalition would use it as a staging post for attacks yet the DDR was willing, subject to guarantees and the presence somehow of neutral military forces to ensure that, maybe under a UN mandate, to allow for it to be freed as quickly as possible from isolation. If that took too long, humanitarian aid could be sent there from foreign sources via East Germany too. Peacekeepers were talked about when it came to the Czech Republic. Whether it be a UN, European or even a possible West German involvement, the DDR wouldn’t object to that either. The conflict there had taken many lives and East Germany desired an end to it all. The significant death toll in Erfurt was raised by the East German when his West German counterpart spoke of casualties in West Germany. The East German people were dying as a result of military action just as those across the Inner-German Border were. There had been further losses elsewhere too. No blame was apportioned to the West German government for that though. In a change of the previous DDR position, Bonn wasn’t regarded as responsible. The Swiss diplomat asked if East Germany considered itself responsible for those caused with West Germany. The DDR was defending itself, came the reply, and had only targeted military bases. An admission of blame was granted though as per the offer to pay monetary compensation to victim’s families. Moreover, a promise was made. East Germany was willing to halt its retaliatory ballistic missile strikes. They would cease even if more bombs fell upon the DDR. There was no timeline on how long that could continue for should his country be attacked, but the ambassador said that just as was the case with the prisoners subject to immediate release, East Germany would take the first step there as well. All of this was presented as East Germany humbled and willing to do what was necessary to stop the killing of people taking place due to Operation Allied Sword. The objectives of the Coalition had been effectively met, so said the East German ambassador, though the cost of that was immense in terms of innocent lives lost. His country’s sovereignty had been gravely violated in a flagrant breach of international law, yet the DDR was willing to move past that. What was wanted was for West Germany, as an ally of all of those Coalition countries, to help them bring the killing to an end. The Swiss were likewise asked for help with it too being mentioned that East Germany was seeking to involve other neutral nations across Europe too – Austria, Spain and Sweden – as well as international organisations such as the UN, the IAEA and the EC. Would West Germany help to give peace a chance? The French DGSE had had a microphone in the very room where the first contact in Vienna had been made by the East Germans seeking a last minute way out. There had in fact been a live broadcast of what had been said there direct from the Austrian capital. No such intelligence feat was had with the Geneva meeting though. Still, it was known about. The Swiss were unaware (but wouldn’t have been too surprised to discover) that the CIA had people in Geneva actively spying on the East German delegation there. The ambassador was followed to his meeting and his West German counterpart noted as turning up to meet him. Furthermore, when the latter got on the phone reporting back to Bonn, using what was though to be a secure line, the Americans listened-in on that conversation. The NSA had communications intercept stations on West German soil and tapped the lines of their ally there… they did that with other allies too, even ones politically closer to Washington than Bonn was. What was said was heard, shared among top-tier Coalition partners, and a response framed ahead of Chancellor Schäuble putting in a phone-call to President Cuomo for the second time that day. Schäuble asked for the Coalition to call a halt to its air campaign. Peace was at hand. The East Germans were willing to give in and were making extraordinary undertakings to see an end to the loss of innocent life from continuing. There was a concession that they were still lying about their nuclear programme – Bonn had seen the evidence on that – but, just as had been said in Geneva, the Americans had blown to pieces those various sites within the DDR with their bombs. West Germany was willing to aid in every possible way with what was put on the table, from both sides too, and act either alone or in concert with others in that. Whatever it took, Schäuble said his country was willing to do that so that there could be an end to it all. He made a personal request of Cuomo, speaking of their previous friendship when meeting as international allies: cancel air operations as soon as possible including the ones due to go ahead on the night of July 4th. A starting point could come from there to see it all end. Cuomo told him no. The East Germans were playing games. They were manipulating West Germany, using the deaths of civilians which they had directly caused themselves, as part of their emotional blackmail. Margot Honecker and her cohorts in East Berlin couldn’t be trusted. Those people there had started this whole mess by assassinating the Czech president, launching a coup & starting a civil war in Havel’s nation and then launched an undeclared war against West Germany via all of those missile attacks. In reply, and with a heavy heart, he said that the military capability of East Germany must be eliminated. There was too the nuclear issue. Cuomo wouldn’t play along with that. A peaceful nuclear energy solution to the DDR’s financial woes where they apparently bashfully admitted they shouldn’t have hidden that? Please… The Coalition would continue with its air attacks until there was satisfaction that the job was done. Cuomo welcomed the promised ceasefire of East German ballistic missiles into Schäuble’s country yet said that he didn’t believe that they would hold their word there. On the matter of West Berlin, yes the united States and its partners were seriously concerned about that city, but it was considered highly unlikely that an invasion would go into there. Honecker had been pre-warned that that would bring about a bigger response. Schäuble asked what that was, whether the Coalition would physically liberate that city if it was taken, but Cuomo wouldn’t be drawn on specifics. What he finished the call with was regret that everything had gone this far. He also told Schäuble that the West German government should seriously consider the wisdom of holding talks with the East Germans when that regime had killed so many innocent West Germans as an act of spite. The call ended not long before darkness fell across the divided Germany’s and back into action when the full might of Coalition air power against the DDR. So while the West German government was to keep the peace, what does the West German people think, are they happy that East Germany is a aggressor while their own government is trying to avoid getting involved.
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stevep
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Post by stevep on Oct 6, 2021 15:08:21 GMT
Thirty-three – Give peace a chance?East German embassies in the ten Coalition countries had been forcibly closed with diplomats expelled via neutral countries. Elsewhere in the world, diplomatic compounds of the DDR where they were in nations friendly to America, Britain & France were the subject of intensive ‘security’ measures by local governments. Still, East Germans did have its diplomats working aboard. The embassy in Bonn was still open along with others across Europe. In New York, there was a presence at the United Nations – FBI agents overtly shadowed those working there to apply pressure on them – and the DDR still had people in Geneva too. The UN Office at Geneva (UNOG) was one of several global locations for that international body and was located where the League of Nations had once been headquarters. Swiss restrictions on the East Germans were minimal but they were wary of seeing their territory used for anything non-diplomatic: a warning had been given that there would be expulsions if necessary. It was at the historic Palais des Nations where there was a second attempt at using diplomacy to stop conflict with the Coalition. The pre-war Vienna undertaking had failed yet the DDR tried once more. And, like before, the West Germans were involved in that too. East German’s permanent representative to the UNOG – he held all the privileges of rank benefiting an ambassador – followed direct instructions coming from the distant Prenden bunker near East Berlin to meet with his West German opposite number using the Swiss as intermediaries. Two days into the conflict with the Coalition, the pair of ambassadors sat down for a talk with a high-ranking official from the Swiss foreign ministry. East Germany put what it had on the table when first talks had been had in Austria yet also expanded upon that too. There was a willingness to meet the demands that had been imposed upon the DDR. Ballistic missile attacks would cease, with once more the suggestion made that the country would sign up to INF Treaty limitations, and East Germany would end its involvement in the Czech civil war as well. When it came to the matter of the alleged nuclear weapons programme, there was a denial that one was in development and rather ‘an admission’ that East Germany had been secretly seeking to create nuclear energy instead. Hands were held up: we were caught not doing things the proper way and made a mistake in how we dealt with the false assertions that it was more than it was. The DDR offered to at once hand over captives that it held in the form of Coalition aviators, releasing them promptly too, and also release the stranglehold that it had upon West Berlin. There was an effort made by the ambassador to talk to ‘his fellow German’ as a reasonable person seeking to end all of the ongoing death and destruction that the conflict was causing both of their nations. When the conversation turned to West German civilian losses, the DDR’s representative spoke of all of those killed in his country yet still expressed what he said was solemn regret for that. An offer was made where his country would pay compensation to the families of those hurt and killed in West Germany without conditions. In reply to disbelief over the story of a peaceful nuclear energy programme, which the West German ambassador said he found rather unbelievable, there was talk of crippling energy prices from hydrocarbons that East Germany was long paying. As to the destroyed sites which American bombs had blown to pieces, there was the offer made of international inspectors from non-Coalition sources, even the West Germans themselves if need be, where the DDR would prove that it had made a grave mistake in what it did but certainly hadn’t been developing weapons of mass destruction. The Swiss diplomat present spoke of the Pentagon-released images of those blown up places though the East German said that while those looked dramatic, the damage done wasn’t that bad and there was still enough evidence on-site to show peaceful intent. With regard to military captives, East Germany was willing to send them over first as well without a promise of something reciprocal. That surprised both the Swiss diplomat and the West German ambassador, but their guest expressed his country’s wish to see the conflict come to an end and so was willing to take that step into the dark by making the first move. The East German spoke more of West Berlin too. He said that he wanted to see access returned to that city due to the humanitarian concerns about all of those residents stuck there. It had only been cut off for the fear that the Coalition would use it as a staging post for attacks yet the DDR was willing, subject to guarantees and the presence somehow of neutral military forces to ensure that, maybe under a UN mandate, to allow for it to be freed as quickly as possible from isolation. If that took too long, humanitarian aid could be sent there from foreign sources via East Germany too. Peacekeepers were talked about when it came to the Czech Republic. Whether it be a UN, European or even a possible West German involvement, the DDR wouldn’t object to that either. The conflict there had taken many lives and East Germany desired an end to it all. The significant death toll in Erfurt was raised by the East German when his West German counterpart spoke of casualties in West Germany. The East German people were dying as a result of military action just as those across the Inner-German Border were. There had been further losses elsewhere too. No blame was apportioned to the West German government for that though. In a change of the previous DDR position, Bonn wasn’t regarded as responsible. The Swiss diplomat asked if East Germany considered itself responsible for those caused with West Germany. The DDR was defending itself, came the reply, and had only targeted military bases. An admission of blame was granted though as per the offer to pay monetary compensation to victim’s families. Moreover, a promise was made. East Germany was willing to halt its retaliatory ballistic missile strikes. They would cease even if more bombs fell upon the DDR. There was no timeline on how long that could continue for should his country be attacked, but the ambassador said that just as was the case with the prisoners subject to immediate release, East Germany would take the first step there as well. All of this was presented as East Germany humbled and willing to do what was necessary to stop the killing of people taking place due to Operation Allied Sword. The objectives of the Coalition had been effectively met, so said the East German ambassador, though the cost of that was immense in terms of innocent lives lost. His country’s sovereignty had been gravely violated in a flagrant breach of international law, yet the DDR was willing to move past that. What was wanted was for West Germany, as an ally of all of those Coalition countries, to help them bring the killing to an end. The Swiss were likewise asked for help with it too being mentioned that East Germany was seeking to involve other neutral nations across Europe too – Austria, Spain and Sweden – as well as international organisations such as the UN, the IAEA and the EC. Would West Germany help to give peace a chance? The French DGSE had had a microphone in the very room where the first contact in Vienna had been made by the East Germans seeking a last minute way out. There had in fact been a live broadcast of what had been said there direct from the Austrian capital. No such intelligence feat was had with the Geneva meeting though. Still, it was known about. The Swiss were unaware (but wouldn’t have been too surprised to discover) that the CIA had people in Geneva actively spying on the East German delegation there. The ambassador was followed to his meeting and his West German counterpart noted as turning up to meet him. Furthermore, when the latter got on the phone reporting back to Bonn, using what was though to be a secure line, the Americans listened-in on that conversation. The NSA had communications intercept stations on West German soil and tapped the lines of their ally there… they did that with other allies too, even ones politically closer to Washington than Bonn was. What was said was heard, shared among top-tier Coalition partners, and a response framed ahead of Chancellor Schäuble putting in a phone-call to President Cuomo for the second time that day. Schäuble asked for the Coalition to call a halt to its air campaign. Peace was at hand. The East Germans were willing to give in and were making extraordinary undertakings to see an end to the loss of innocent life from continuing. There was a concession that they were still lying about their nuclear programme – Bonn had seen the evidence on that – but, just as had been said in Geneva, the Americans had blown to pieces those various sites within the DDR with their bombs. West Germany was willing to aid in every possible way with what was put on the table, from both sides too, and act either alone or in concert with others in that. Whatever it took, Schäuble said his country was willing to do that so that there could be an end to it all. He made a personal request of Cuomo, speaking of their previous friendship when meeting as international allies: cancel air operations as soon as possible including the ones due to go ahead on the night of July 4th. A starting point could come from there to see it all end. Cuomo told him no. The East Germans were playing games. They were manipulating West Germany, using the deaths of civilians which they had directly caused themselves, as part of their emotional blackmail. Margot Honecker and her cohorts in East Berlin couldn’t be trusted. Those people there had started this whole mess by assassinating the Czech president, launching a coup & starting a civil war in Havel’s nation and then launched an undeclared war against West Germany via all of those missile attacks. In reply, and with a heavy heart, he said that the military capability of East Germany must be eliminated. There was too the nuclear issue. Cuomo wouldn’t play along with that. A peaceful nuclear energy solution to the DDR’s financial woes where they apparently bashfully admitted they shouldn’t have hidden that? Please… The Coalition would continue with its air attacks until there was satisfaction that the job was done. Cuomo welcomed the promised ceasefire of East German ballistic missiles into Schäuble’s country yet said that he didn’t believe that they would hold their word there. On the matter of West Berlin, yes the united States and its partners were seriously concerned about that city, but it was considered highly unlikely that an invasion would go into there. Honecker had been pre-warned that that would bring about a bigger response. Schäuble asked what that was, whether the Coalition would physically liberate that city if it was taken, but Cuomo wouldn’t be drawn on specifics. What he finished the call with was regret that everything had gone this far. He also told Schäuble that the West German government should seriously consider the wisdom of holding talks with the East Germans when that regime had killed so many innocent West Germans as an act of spite. The call ended not long before darkness fell across the divided Germany’s and back into action when the full might of Coalition air power against the DDR. So while the West German government was to keep the peace, what does the West German people think, are they happy that East Germany is a aggressor while their own government is trying to avoid getting involved.
I would expect that they would be divided on both what's happening and how to stop it but that most of them will want the attacks on both sides to end.
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lordroel
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Post by lordroel on Oct 6, 2021 15:09:50 GMT
So while the West German government was to keep the peace, what does the West German people think, are they happy that East Germany is a aggressor while their own government is trying to avoid getting involved. I would expect that they would be divided on both what's happening and how to stop it but that most of them will want the attacks on both sides to end.
I am amazed they have not tried to close the West German airspace for allied planes, but if that helps is a diffrent question.
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stevep
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Post by stevep on Oct 6, 2021 15:19:45 GMT
I would expect that they would be divided on both what's happening and how to stop it but that most of them will want the attacks on both sides to end.
I am amazed they have not tried to close the West German airspace for allied planes, but if that helps is a diffrent question.
I think its unlikely the W German government would do that unless they got desperate/very determined. However rather surprised there haven't been people trying to blockade assorted allied bases by peaceful demonstration. Sit down protests, possibly using vehicles to disrupt traffic in the area and things like that. Not on the bases themselves but on W German territory bordering them.
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lordroel
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Post by lordroel on Oct 6, 2021 15:22:33 GMT
I am amazed they have not tried to close the West German airspace for allied planes, but if that helps is a diffrent question. I think its unlikely the W German government would do that unless they got desperate/very determined. However rather surprised there haven't been people trying to blockade assorted allied bases by peaceful demonstration. Sit down protests, possibly using vehicles to disrupt traffic in the area and things like that. Not on the bases themselves but on W German territory bordering them.
And a result is the US Military Police breaking them up, if they are allowed to do that without permission of the West German police.
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stevep
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Post by stevep on Oct 6, 2021 15:49:24 GMT
I think its unlikely the W German government would do that unless they got desperate/very determined. However rather surprised there haven't been people trying to blockade assorted allied bases by peaceful demonstration. Sit down protests, possibly using vehicles to disrupt traffic in the area and things like that. Not on the bases themselves but on W German territory bordering them.
And a result is the US Military Police breaking them up, if they are allowed to do that without permission of the West German police.
Well that would be the issue. If you get pictures of military police breaking up peaceful demonstrations in W Germany territory or trying to arrest some of those involved that would be a very hot potato in the country! I would expect that the W German police would be involved 1st but how much disruption demonstrators could cause and whether there might be discontent in the police over such actions and definitely would be in Parliament.
Another possible move that demonstrators might make - or activists working for the regime - might be attack on say power and water supplies to some of the bases, as I assume a number will be at least partly dependent on external supplies.
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lordroel
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Post by lordroel on Oct 6, 2021 16:19:48 GMT
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James G
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Post by James G on Oct 6, 2021 18:09:17 GMT
Thirty-three – Give peace a chance?East German embassies in the ten Coalition countries had been forcibly closed with diplomats expelled via neutral countries. Elsewhere in the world, diplomatic compounds of the DDR where they were in nations friendly to America, Britain & France were the subject of intensive ‘security’ measures by local governments. Still, East Germans did have its diplomats working aboard. The embassy in Bonn was still open along with others across Europe. In New York, there was a presence at the United Nations – FBI agents overtly shadowed those working there to apply pressure on them – and the DDR still had people in Geneva too. The UN Office at Geneva (UNOG) was one of several global locations for that international body and was located where the League of Nations had once been headquarters. Swiss restrictions on the East Germans were minimal but they were wary of seeing their territory used for anything non-diplomatic: a warning had been given that there would be expulsions if necessary. It was at the historic Palais des Nations where there was a second attempt at using diplomacy to stop conflict with the Coalition. The pre-war Vienna undertaking had failed yet the DDR tried once more. And, like before, the West Germans were involved in that too. East German’s permanent representative to the UNOG – he held all the privileges of rank benefiting an ambassador – followed direct instructions coming from the distant Prenden bunker near East Berlin to meet with his West German opposite number using the Swiss as intermediaries. Two days into the conflict with the Coalition, the pair of ambassadors sat down for a talk with a high-ranking official from the Swiss foreign ministry. East Germany put what it had on the table when first talks had been had in Austria yet also expanded upon that too. There was a willingness to meet the demands that had been imposed upon the DDR. Ballistic missile attacks would cease, with once more the suggestion made that the country would sign up to INF Treaty limitations, and East Germany would end its involvement in the Czech civil war as well. When it came to the matter of the alleged nuclear weapons programme, there was a denial that one was in development and rather ‘an admission’ that East Germany had been secretly seeking to create nuclear energy instead. Hands were held up: we were caught not doing things the proper way and made a mistake in how we dealt with the false assertions that it was more than it was. The DDR offered to at once hand over captives that it held in the form of Coalition aviators, releasing them promptly too, and also release the stranglehold that it had upon West Berlin. There was an effort made by the ambassador to talk to ‘his fellow German’ as a reasonable person seeking to end all of the ongoing death and destruction that the conflict was causing both of their nations. When the conversation turned to West German civilian losses, the DDR’s representative spoke of all of those killed in his country yet still expressed what he said was solemn regret for that. An offer was made where his country would pay compensation to the families of those hurt and killed in West Germany without conditions. In reply to disbelief over the story of a peaceful nuclear energy programme, which the West German ambassador said he found rather unbelievable, there was talk of crippling energy prices from hydrocarbons that East Germany was long paying. As to the destroyed sites which American bombs had blown to pieces, there was the offer made of international inspectors from non-Coalition sources, even the West Germans themselves if need be, where the DDR would prove that it had made a grave mistake in what it did but certainly hadn’t been developing weapons of mass destruction. The Swiss diplomat present spoke of the Pentagon-released images of those blown up places though the East German said that while those looked dramatic, the damage done wasn’t that bad and there was still enough evidence on-site to show peaceful intent. With regard to military captives, East Germany was willing to send them over first as well without a promise of something reciprocal. That surprised both the Swiss diplomat and the West German ambassador, but their guest expressed his country’s wish to see the conflict come to an end and so was willing to take that step into the dark by making the first move. The East German spoke more of West Berlin too. He said that he wanted to see access returned to that city due to the humanitarian concerns about all of those residents stuck there. It had only been cut off for the fear that the Coalition would use it as a staging post for attacks yet the DDR was willing, subject to guarantees and the presence somehow of neutral military forces to ensure that, maybe under a UN mandate, to allow for it to be freed as quickly as possible from isolation. If that took too long, humanitarian aid could be sent there from foreign sources via East Germany too. Peacekeepers were talked about when it came to the Czech Republic. Whether it be a UN, European or even a possible West German involvement, the DDR wouldn’t object to that either. The conflict there had taken many lives and East Germany desired an end to it all. The significant death toll in Erfurt was raised by the East German when his West German counterpart spoke of casualties in West Germany. The East German people were dying as a result of military action just as those across the Inner-German Border were. There had been further losses elsewhere too. No blame was apportioned to the West German government for that though. In a change of the previous DDR position, Bonn wasn’t regarded as responsible. The Swiss diplomat asked if East Germany considered itself responsible for those caused with West Germany. The DDR was defending itself, came the reply, and had only targeted military bases. An admission of blame was granted though as per the offer to pay monetary compensation to victim’s families. Moreover, a promise was made. East Germany was willing to halt its retaliatory ballistic missile strikes. They would cease even if more bombs fell upon the DDR. There was no timeline on how long that could continue for should his country be attacked, but the ambassador said that just as was the case with the prisoners subject to immediate release, East Germany would take the first step there as well. All of this was presented as East Germany humbled and willing to do what was necessary to stop the killing of people taking place due to Operation Allied Sword. The objectives of the Coalition had been effectively met, so said the East German ambassador, though the cost of that was immense in terms of innocent lives lost. His country’s sovereignty had been gravely violated in a flagrant breach of international law, yet the DDR was willing to move past that. What was wanted was for West Germany, as an ally of all of those Coalition countries, to help them bring the killing to an end. The Swiss were likewise asked for help with it too being mentioned that East Germany was seeking to involve other neutral nations across Europe too – Austria, Spain and Sweden – as well as international organisations such as the UN, the IAEA and the EC. Would West Germany help to give peace a chance? The French DGSE had had a microphone in the very room where the first contact in Vienna had been made by the East Germans seeking a last minute way out. There had in fact been a live broadcast of what had been said there direct from the Austrian capital. No such intelligence feat was had with the Geneva meeting though. Still, it was known about. The Swiss were unaware (but wouldn’t have been too surprised to discover) that the CIA had people in Geneva actively spying on the East German delegation there. The ambassador was followed to his meeting and his West German counterpart noted as turning up to meet him. Furthermore, when the latter got on the phone reporting back to Bonn, using what was though to be a secure line, the Americans listened-in on that conversation. The NSA had communications intercept stations on West German soil and tapped the lines of their ally there… they did that with other allies too, even ones politically closer to Washington than Bonn was. What was said was heard, shared among top-tier Coalition partners, and a response framed ahead of Chancellor Schäuble putting in a phone-call to President Cuomo for the second time that day. Schäuble asked for the Coalition to call a halt to its air campaign. Peace was at hand. The East Germans were willing to give in and were making extraordinary undertakings to see an end to the loss of innocent life from continuing. There was a concession that they were still lying about their nuclear programme – Bonn had seen the evidence on that – but, just as had been said in Geneva, the Americans had blown to pieces those various sites within the DDR with their bombs. West Germany was willing to aid in every possible way with what was put on the table, from both sides too, and act either alone or in concert with others in that. Whatever it took, Schäuble said his country was willing to do that so that there could be an end to it all. He made a personal request of Cuomo, speaking of their previous friendship when meeting as international allies: cancel air operations as soon as possible including the ones due to go ahead on the night of July 4th. A starting point could come from there to see it all end. Cuomo told him no. The East Germans were playing games. They were manipulating West Germany, using the deaths of civilians which they had directly caused themselves, as part of their emotional blackmail. Margot Honecker and her cohorts in East Berlin couldn’t be trusted. Those people there had started this whole mess by assassinating the Czech president, launching a coup & starting a civil war in Havel’s nation and then launched an undeclared war against West Germany via all of those missile attacks. In reply, and with a heavy heart, he said that the military capability of East Germany must be eliminated. There was too the nuclear issue. Cuomo wouldn’t play along with that. A peaceful nuclear energy solution to the DDR’s financial woes where they apparently bashfully admitted they shouldn’t have hidden that? Please… The Coalition would continue with its air attacks until there was satisfaction that the job was done. Cuomo welcomed the promised ceasefire of East German ballistic missiles into Schäuble’s country yet said that he didn’t believe that they would hold their word there. On the matter of West Berlin, yes the united States and its partners were seriously concerned about that city, but it was considered highly unlikely that an invasion would go into there. Honecker had been pre-warned that that would bring about a bigger response. Schäuble asked what that was, whether the Coalition would physically liberate that city if it was taken, but Cuomo wouldn’t be drawn on specifics. What he finished the call with was regret that everything had gone this far. He also told Schäuble that the West German government should seriously consider the wisdom of holding talks with the East Germans when that regime had killed so many innocent West Germans as an act of spite. The call ended not long before darkness fell across the divided Germany’s and back into action when the full might of Coalition air power against the DDR. So while the West German government was to keep the peace, what does the West German people think, are they happy that East Germany is a aggressor while their own government is trying to avoid getting involved. There is very little love for the East German regime in West Germany. They know full well that it is a nasty regime and West Germans were opposed to the 'adventure' in the Czech Republic. Nonetheless, that is the regime, not the people: their fellow Germans.
I would expect that they would be divided on both what's happening and how to stop it but that most of them will want the attacks on both sides to end.
Just for it all to end is what is widely wanted with arguments over what is right & wrong following that fervent wish to see the killing stop first. I am amazed they have not tried to close the West German airspace for allied planes, but if that helps is a diffrent question. Impossible. Coalition aircraft are based within West Germany and all around it. They do what they want. Legally, Bonn can do nothing. If they tried using force...? A few squadrons of F-4s against American F-15s, British Tornado F3s, French Mirage-2000s etc. Game over for the Luftwaffe pretty damn quick.
I think its unlikely the W German government would do that unless they got desperate/very determined. However rather surprised there haven't been people trying to blockade assorted allied bases by peaceful demonstration. Sit down protests, possibly using vehicles to disrupt traffic in the area and things like that. Not on the bases themselves but on W German territory bordering them.
They would have to be very desperate. I mentioned some of that in a previous update but will return to it in #35. There were a couple of base invasions but mainly civil disobedience outside. Once news breaks that the Coalition rejected the latest East German peace proposal so brashly, that will get dialled up. And a result is the US Military Police breaking them up, if they are allowed to do that without permission of the West German police. On base, yes. Out of base, that gets complicated!
Well that would be the issue. If you get pictures of military police breaking up peaceful demonstrations in W Germany territory or trying to arrest some of those involved that would be a very hot potato in the country! I would expect that the W German police would be involved 1st but how much disruption demonstrators could cause and whether there might be discontent in the police over such actions and definitely would be in Parliament.
Another possible move that demonstrators might make - or activists working for the regime - might be attack on say power and water supplies to some of the bases, as I assume a number will be at least partly dependent on external supplies.
I'm already thinking along similar lines for when I write that in the update after the one below. The West Germans respect their allies but will not stand by should the Americans/British start going really crazy. James G , you got a online reviuew of this TL. Review: People’s War[iframe id="twitter-widget-0" scrolling="no" frameborder="0" allowtransparency="true" allowfullscreen="true" class="" style="position: static; visibility: visible; width: 550px; height: 440px; display: block; flex-grow: 1;" title="Twitter Tweet" src="https://platform.twitter.com/embed/Tweet.html?dnt=false&embedId=twitter-widget-0&features=eyJ0ZndfZXhwZXJpbWVudHNfY29va2llX2V4cGlyYXRpb24iOnsiYnVja2V0IjoxMjA5NjAwLCJ2ZXJzaW9uIjpudWxsfSwidGZ3X2hvcml6b25fdHdlZXRfZW1iZWRfOTU1NSI6eyJidWNrZXQiOiJodGUiLCJ2ZXJzaW9uIjpudWxsfSwidGZ3X3NwYWNlX2NhcmQiOnsiYnVja2V0Ijoib2ZmIiwidmVyc2lvbiI6bnVsbH19&frame=false&hideCard=false&hideThread=false&id=1445785377726337034&lang=en&origin=https%3A%2F%2Falternate-timelines.com%2Fpost%2F141528%2Fquote%2F3894%3Fpage%3D11&sessionId=c56d8f6cda2e32b9d5f4bef73296cc8740cf4140&siteScreenName=proboards&theme=light&widgetsVersion=fcb1942%3A1632982954711&width=550px" data-tweet-id="1445785377726337034"][/iframe] I have nothing but contempt for that person. He's trash, a nasty little bully. I left ah.com because of him. SLP welcomes bullies like that too. I'd rather not see anything by him here, please.
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