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Post by eurowatch on Jan 7, 2016 22:09:13 GMT
I tried something different then the year: event style Lordroel has, instead going for decribing the event more closely with from time to time an indicator for what year it is. Please tell me your thoughts.
"I just want to share my passion with everybody." Thijs Stroeve on why he started creating anime.
While in 2016 anime ranks as one of The Netherlands’ top export products (alongside technology, foodstuffs, raw materials and Dutch culture itself), what can be considered the first “true” anime was only moderately popular while it was still running in 1980 and barely made a profit.
Despite Captain Rob’s limited success, founder and creative director Thijs Stroeve of Studio Spitsuur created K-ON!, and sold it to the network in 1981. While many of the tropes K-ON! used have long since become cliched and discredited, it was a groundbreaking show for it’s time, something that was reflected in its ratings. Despite solid ratings and many people still looking back fondly at the show, it got cancelled by the network after it’s second season, citing a disappointing number of viewers. In a textbook example of diverging tastes, the situation was exactly the opposite across the Channel, with critics regularly panning the show for lacking substance but it being one of the most watched series in Britain.
Despite Spitsuur being saved from an early bankruptcy by BBC ordering another season and a sequel movie, Stroeve was reluctant to commit to another risky endeavour again an instead preferred to make animes he knew would sell. This attitude got him into numerous fights with fellow founder Bas Kappert, who felt that Stroeve had abandoned the passion he initially showed. Their arguments eventually culminated in Kappert and several like minded animators leaving Spitsuur altogether in 1983 to found Studio Eureka, dedicating themselves entirely to film making.
Stroeve was infuriated by his former friend abandoning him and publicly declared that their endeavour would end in catastrophe. He later begrudgingly acknowledged Kappert’s talent when his first feature-length movie, Natalie and the Valley of the Wind, was nominated for an Oscar and won several prizes in 1985.
While their success paled in comparison to Eureka’s second movie Grave of the Fireflies, which won an Oscar for best drama, Spitsuur finally got their big breakthrough as well in 1986. One of three series that were released that year, A Certain Scientific Railgun was the first anime since K-ON! to be aimed at an international audience, ironically partly piggybacking on Eureka’s popularity.
Unlike K-ON! however, Railgun’s popularity shoot up like a rocket and stayed there, quickly finding audiences across Europe and Asia. It was even released in the US, though it’s popularity faded as it’s plot arcs became more centered around European politics and its criticism of capitalism increased. (Though to Stroeve's eternal shame, it did quite well in the Soviet Union for the same reasons.)
In Europe however, Railgun’s success firmly put Spitsuur in the public eye and renewed the trust of investors in the studio. Now, with a waiting audience and the money to create the series he wanted, Stroeve set out to establish anime as viable genre like he always had dreamed of. From 1986 to 1990, people across the continent applauded him for animes like Fate/Stay Night, Cowboy Bebop, Cutey Honey, Space Battleship Bismarck and Nadia and the Secret of the Blue Water, all of which would go on to influence later directors for decades.
Stroeve even managed to convince Kappert to collaborate on a program that paired young animators and writers fresh out school with experienced directors to teach them how to make anime. The program, at least partially funded and organised by the Dutch ministry of education, culture and education, would go on to define the industry after The Big Crash and create a whole new generation of studios.
1987 is often considered among the milepoints in anime history, not only because of the “classic” series that aired that year but primarily because of the first anime con that was held in Amsterdam. Organised as a co-operation between Studios Spitsuur and Eureka to give something back to the fans, it featured Q&A and autograph sessions with famous voice actors and animators, sneak peeks at new movies and animes and a competition for the chance to get a voice acting role in the upcoming Castle in the Sky movie.
The fans loved it and the next year attendance had soared from a “mere” ten thousand to over fifty thousand, a number that would only rise as the popularity of anime grew.
But Thijs Stroeve would not get the chance to see any of that. He died in a car accident on his way to work on the 27th October, busy planning the third con.
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lordroel
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Post by lordroel on Jan 8, 2016 8:01:31 GMT
I like your description of anime in the world of Kingdom of the Netherlands: An Alternate Star Trek and would tell you that here in this world the term anime would most likely not be use as that is for Japanese cartoons who in this universe are not as popular, second i would think these two dutch made cartoons Alfred J. Kwak ( Wiki link here) and Doctor Snuggles ( Wiki link here) which i grew up with would also be more popular. But for the rest i like you view on anime in the Kingdom of the Netherlands: An Alternate Star Trek verse.
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Post by eurowatch on Jan 8, 2016 10:44:50 GMT
Thank you. I Guess that the reason the medium is called anime is because of marketing, anime is much easier to remember and spell for foreigners then animatie (and they don't have to listen to foreigners constantly butcher the pronouncement.) I have plans for Alfred J. Kwak (althought like most series, don't expect more then a throwaway refrence) but none for Doctor Snuggles this is the first time I have heard about it. (Throws dice of fate) A co-production between Studio Spitsuur and KidProx it ran for fourteen episodes before ending. While KidProx expressed interested in a sequel, Stroeve refused and concentrated on his own series instead. After Spitsuurs bankruptcy and buyout by the Dutch government the rights defaulted back KidProx, which had ceased producing series to focus on solely on dubbing anime. By 2016 the rights had been sold on to Teleimagination Studios who have repeatedly exspressed interest in a remake but have yet to deliver anything. I currently have the second part in editing and Will post when ready.
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lordroel
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Post by lordroel on Jan 8, 2016 10:47:31 GMT
Thank you. I Guess that the reason the medium is called anime is because of marketing, anime is much easier to remember and spell for foreigners then animatie (and they don't have to listen to foreigners constantly butcher the pronouncement.) I have plans for Alfred J. Kwak (althought like most series, don't expect more then a throwaway refrence) but none for Doctor Snuggles this is the first time I have heard about it. (Throws dice of fate) A co-production between Studio Spitsuur and KidProx it ran for fourteen episodes before ending. While KidProx expressed interested in a sequel, Stroeve refused and concentrated on his own series instead. After Spitsuurs bankruptcy and buyout by the Dutch government the rights defaulted back KidProx, which had ceased producing series to focus on solely on dubbing anime. By 2016 the rights had been sold on to Teleimagination Studios who have repeatedly exspressed interest in a remake but have yet to deliver anything. I currently have the second part in editing and Will post when ready. You should check it out, in English Doctor Snuggles was voiced by none other than Peter Ustinov himself.
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Post by eurowatch on Jan 11, 2016 18:11:40 GMT
Not exactly content With this one but please tell me what you think.
“Spitsuurs collapse is the greatest disaster and the largest boon the anime industry has experienced up to this point.” Jan van der Burg, head of Philips Entertainment 1988-1995.
His death threw the fandom into a state of mourning, and both Crusade in Jeans and Mobile Suit Gundam would be dedicated to his memory. Even some of his bitter rivals from TV Java would show up at his funeral to pay their respect. Spitsuur was among those hit hardest by Stroeve’s death, but in the short term the studio survived under the leadership of Gerrit Wijkstra and the vast archives of future plans left behind. Unfortunately, Wijkstra proved to be a controversial figure among fans with people often outright accusing him of causing Spitsuur’s collapse. Whether or not this is true is up for debate, but even his defenders agree that he was not up for the challenge. The only place Wijkstra is not universally disliked is the United States, where only his successes Ghost in the Shell and Atilla series were released, both of which were incredibly popular and received rave reviews in Europe as well. It is just that at home his two successes tend to be overshadows by his failures, with Sword Art Online, Angel Beat, and Elfen Lied all flopping spectacularly (the latter was even banned being from Dutch broadcasting due to excessive violence.) By 1990 personnel were leaving Spitsuur in droves, either being fired due to to the studio no longer being able to pay them or leaving as they saw the writing on the wall, and in July the once prosperous company was forced to file for bankruptcy. Only a buyout by the government saved the studios, who renamed it to Spitsuur Animation, put it under the leadership of director Wim van Loo and suggested that they should focus on producing animes aimed at multiple demographics instead of just young adults. Alfred J. Kwak was vital to rebuilding the studios image, and Sailor Moon was a worldwide success, but Spitsuur would never return to its former status. The loss of Spitsuur hit the anime industry hard, but it also created opportunities. Without a giant company to dominate the market, other studios, both native and foreign, saw their chance to establish themselves. Especially fortunate were artists and voice actors, who experienced a rapid jump in demand through the years and a similar increase in payment. Famous voice actress Famke Janssen often joked that her paycheck made up a third of the budget of whatever anime she worked on. While a majority of the new animes were directed by people with a background in Spitsuur, others were created by people who had grown up on anime. This was evident in the content they produced, newcomers were often thought of as more willing to experiment and try new ideas than what the strictly by-the-book directors made. This predictably caused an intense rift between the two factions which, despite numerous attempts to cross, has never quite gone away. While many studios that survived the next years did so through a process of natural selection and dumb luck, others were able to thrive due to securing funding from other sources. Philips was the most popular option, folding many studios into their entertainment label, though other big companies were willing to sponsor as well. Of particular note is Obsidian Animation, which secured itself a sponsorship from the Dutch Ministry of Defence in return for making them look good, a deal which director Sanne Deetman embraced. She would later become famous for animes like Vrede is Onze Missie (Peace is Our Mission) and Zij Noemen Ons Barbaren (They Call Us Barbarians), dramas which placed great emphasis on accurately depicting military hardware and tactics. The commercial success of those series paved the way for animes more suited to a wider audience like Uitgang: Amsterdam, Fleet Collection, Strike Witches and Girls und Pantzer, some of which would go on to become more famous outside their own country then inside. By 1999 the industry gradually settled into a new status quo as the struggle had shifted from one-upping the competition to trying to break into the last large untapped market available: the United States.
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lordroel
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Post by lordroel on Jan 11, 2016 19:12:30 GMT
Nice building the anime in the Kingdom of the Netherlands: An Alternate Star Trek but i wonder the setting of some of these anime will be different then as we know them, example the Strike Witches and Girls und Pantzer, they have Japanese elements in them, would those be replace with Netherlands elements like Netherlands tanks (even if the Netherlands was neutral during WWII in this universe) in Girls und Pantzer.
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Post by eurowatch on Jan 11, 2016 19:54:42 GMT
I don't know how Strike Withces would work since I have only watched one episode before turned of by the constant pantyshots but changing GuP is pretty straightforward. Just replace the tankary art of fighting With a competition, the Type 89 With a Tijger and add a sole Dutch team. This is a glorified army commercial about young girls driving tanks, it does not need to be complicated.
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lordroel
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Post by lordroel on Jan 11, 2016 20:01:47 GMT
I don't know how Strike Withces would work since I have only watched one episode before turned of by the constant pantyshots but changing GuP is pretty straightforward. Just replace the tankary art of fighting With a competition, the Type 89 With a Tijger and add a sole Dutch team. This is a glorified army commercial about young girls driving tanks, it does not need to be complicated. The Dutch team would rival the German team in firepower, would love to see a battle between them. But it could be still a tank war with only tanks from every country who where used in the period of 1939 to 1945 being used.
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Post by eurowatch on Jan 12, 2016 15:36:47 GMT
I don't know how Strike Withces would work since I have only watched one episode before turned of by the constant pantyshots but changing GuP is pretty straightforward. Just replace the tankary art of fighting With a competition, the Type 89 With a Tijger and add a sole Dutch team. This is a glorified army commercial about young girls driving tanks, it does not need to be complicated. The Dutch team would rival the German team in firepower, would love to see a battle between them. But it could be still a tank war with only tanks from every country who where used in the period of 1939 to 1945 being used. It would probably be a battle of manouver as both sides continuesly tried to outsmart the other. I also have a feeling that if a Japanese team had shown up they would have been treated as a joke, With fourty "tanks" all shooting at the Panzer IV at the same time only to watch in dismay as all the shells just bounce of the armour. Also on how many animes Will be different from how we would know them: at this point pretty much all animes only share a setting and occasional characters with thier OTL counterparts. This is not just because of different social norms but also because they often only have a short synopsis to go on. There is also a very big difference on the origin of many original animes, here basing them on comics just never caught on notewhorty more then in OTL. Instead it is far more popular to use books as the basis for animes or to hire a writer to write a novelisation to increase profits.
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lordroel
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Post by lordroel on Jan 12, 2016 15:52:00 GMT
The Dutch team would rival the German team in firepower, would love to see a battle between them. But it could be still a tank war with only tanks from every country who where used in the period of 1939 to 1945 being used. It would probably be a battle of manouver as both sides continuesly tried to outsmart the other. I also have a feeling that if a Japanese team had shown up they would have been treated as a joke, With fourty "tanks" all shooting at the Panzer IV at the same time only to watch in dismay as all the shells just bounce of the armour. Early Japanese tanks in this universe might be a joke but from 1944 onwards the Japanese begin fielding the Type 3 Chi-Nu medium tank (mounting a Type 3 75 mm Tank Gun) and manged in 1945 thanks to license right to produce the German panzer V (Puma) (known as the Type 4 Medium Tank in Japan). These two type of tanks might stand up to a Panzer IV and even a Panzer V in combat, that is unless the German team introduces the Tiger or even a Maus to the battle.
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Post by eurowatch on Jan 30, 2016 0:46:02 GMT
It would probably be a battle of manouver as both sides continuesly tried to outsmart the other. I also have a feeling that if a Japanese team had shown up they would have been treated as a joke, With fourty "tanks" all shooting at the Panzer IV at the same time only to watch in dismay as all the shells just bounce of the armour. Early Japanese tanks in this universe might be a joke but from 1944 onwards the Japanese begin fielding the Type 3 Chi-Nu medium tank (mounting a Type 3 75 mm Tank Gun) and manged in 1945 thanks to license right to produce the German panzer V (Puma) (known as the Type 4 Medium Tank in Japan). These two type of tanks might stand up to a Panzer IV and even a Panzer V in combat, that is unless the German team introduces the Tiger or even a Maus to the battle. Even if the Japanese team brought some of their Type 3 and 4s I still don't think they would stand much of a chance angainst the German team since they would be likely to bring a whole lot of late-war heavy tanks and tank destroyers, as Kuromorimine did in OTL GuP. For Reference, this is how I imagen the ATL GuP to be. Name: Girls und Panzers. Synopsis: After a furious argument with her mother, Mio van Kampen bets that she can make a better tankery team than that of the Royal Dutch Army. Forced to use the few tanks the Belgian team have and what volunteers she convinced to join, Mio now sets out to make good on that promise. And maybe learn something about what it means to be a tanker in the process... Number of episodes: 12 Released: 2003 Reception: overwhelmingly positive, with American viewers loving the over-the-top American team enough for them to get their own OVA. Plot: Mio van Kampen leads a practice battle against the British team and gets solidly beaten, through she managed to impress the opponent enough to get called to a private meeting. During the meeting Mio is asked why such an experienced tanker is leading such a bad team, with a flashback showing how she argued with her mother Astrid van Kampen that it took more skill to lead a bad team to the top then a good team. Astrid then dared her daughter to prove it and organised for her to be placed in charge of the Belgian team. In the present, Darjeeling tells Mio that while standing up for what she believes in is good, what she did went to far. The conversation ends with Darjeeling advising Mio to focus on the strengths of her team instead of just her own skill and that she would be happy to fight her again in the International tournament. Through rigorous training, the Belgian team manages to fight their way to the semi-finals to face off against the Dutch team, led by Mio’s younger sister Ida. Despite an intense battle that sees both of the sisters forcing their tanks to the max in an one-on-one fight, the Belgians Panzer IV eventually loses to the Dutch Tijger I. After the battle Mio and Astrid reconcile, with both coming to respect the others view and the sisters promising to face off against each other in the next tournament. The last episode ends ambiguously as the Dutch team faces off against the German team. Sequels and spinoffs: received a novelisation after its first episodes were a success, followed by two OVAs and a sequel in the form of a movie.
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lordroel
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Post by lordroel on Jan 30, 2016 1:27:24 GMT
Reception: overwhelmingly positive, with American viewers loving the over-the-top American team enough for them to get their own OVA. Plot: Mio van Kampen leads a practice battle against the British team and gets solidly beaten, through she managed to impress the opponent enough to get called to a private meeting. During the meeting Mio is asked why such an experienced tanker is leading such a bad team, with a flashback showing how she argued with her mother Astrid van Kampen that it took more skill to lead a bad team to the top then a good team. Astrid then dared her daughter to prove it and organised for her to be placed in charge of the Belgian team. In the present, Darjeeling tells Mio that while standing up for what she believes in is good, what she did went to far. The conversation ends with Darjeeling advising Mio to focus on the strengths of her team instead of just her own skill and that she would be happy to fight her again in the International tournament. Through rigorous training, the Belgian team manages to fight their way to the semi-finals to face off against the Dutch team, led by Mio’s younger sister Ida. Despite an intense battle that sees both of the sisters forcing their tanks to the max in an one-on-one fight, the Belgians Panzer IV eventually loses to the Dutch Tijger I. After the battle Mio and Astrid reconcile, with both coming to respect the others view and the sisters promising to face off against each other in the next tournament. The last episode ends ambiguously as the Dutch team faces off against the German team. Sequels and spinoffs: received a novelisation after its first episodes were a success, followed by two OVAs and a sequel in the form of a movie. Like it very much, this is how i would image the anime myself, there is strangely enough a Belgian school in the manga but only mention in the Anime, its called Waffle Academy, i would see them, if the following rules of having tanks whose design was completed and fielded before the end of the war in 1945 made up of the following Belgian tanks (where in use or planned to enter service with the Belgian army before the German invasion in 1940). Tanks in use with the Waffle Academy Renault FT T15 light tank (version of the British "Commercial Light Tank Vickers Carden-Loyd 4 ton). AMC 35 light tank T13 tank destroyer (B1,B2 and B3 versions).
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Post by eurowatch on Jan 30, 2016 2:29:18 GMT
I am aware (why the heck is there a Norwegian themed academy when Norway didn't even have tanks during WW2?) but the reason I choose to use Belgium is because it is close enough to the Netherlands to be familiar but still distant enough to clasify as foreign and it was easy to handwave them having a mixed tank depot. (The in universe reason is that Belgian voice actors speak understandeble Dutch and are much cheaper then hiring native actors.)
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lordroel
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Post by lordroel on Jan 30, 2016 8:47:45 GMT
I am aware (why the heck is there a Norwegian themed academy when Norway didn't even have tanks during WW2?) but the reason I choose to use Belgium is because it is close enough to the Netherlands to be familiar but still distant enough to clasify as foreign and it was easy to handwave them having a mixed tank depot. (The in universe reason is that Belgian voice actors speak understandeble Dutch and are much cheaper then hiring native actors.) You are correct, also find it strange that a Norwegian team is on the list, but maybe the makers of the manga/anime toughed the name Viking sounded nice.
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Post by eurowatch on Jan 30, 2016 13:31:33 GMT
I am aware (why the heck is there a Norwegian themed academy when Norway didn't even have tanks during WW2?) but the reason I choose to use Belgium is because it is close enough to the Netherlands to be familiar but still distant enough to clasify as foreign and it was easy to handwave them having a mixed tank depot. (The in universe reason is that Belgian voice actors speak understandeble Dutch and are much cheaper then hiring native actors.) You are correct, also find it strange that a Norwegian team is on the list, but maybe the makers of the manga/anime toughed the name Viking sounded nice. My Guess is that they just decided to ignore the cultural and bilungual difference between Sweden and Denmark and just lump all of Scandinavia into one School. Vikings are not a sole Norwegian Thing after all (no matter how much Norwegians would like to tell you differently.)
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