kasumigenx
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Post by kasumigenx on Jun 21, 2021 23:02:57 GMT
Two Spanish Unruly colonies
On 1600s tribes in Luzon or Selurong and Celebes especially those tribes that would be a thorn on the Spanish and the Spanish would cede Celebes to Portugal in the 1650s which would lead to Celebes being gained by the Dutch, the land of Luzon/Selurong would be held by the Spanish although they would lose control of lands, these tribes would not convert and flourish and not decline and they were a problem to the Spanish missionaries, on 1650 when the Spanish left Celebes and the Spanish would leave these tribes alone.
On 1661, the Malong-Almazan revolt would be supported by the tribes or population in Selurong or Luzon who were left outside of the Spanish control in the early 1660s, the Spanish would be able to quell and quash the Malong-Almazan revolt with the help of the Merdicas from Ternate.
The Tribes that never converted would reveal themselves as either muslim or pagan and become much of the population in the upper reaches of the provinces of Pampanga and Cagayan and the Spanish would retreat from the area which would later form a polity of their own.
There are both Muslim population in Batangas which are minority and the Upper Regions of Pampanga and Cagayan and River basins and the Pagans would be in the mountains but the muslim minority in Batangas would later assimilate.
On 1668, after the War of Portuguese succession, the Spanish would be forced to let go of the Christians in the Northern Half of Nueva Castilla and cede them to the rule of Infidels in Selurong that they have decided to let go decades ago.
Note
There are accounts of Cryptomuslims in a historian I talked with and some of the groups seem to just pretended to convert.
I am writing a timeline that cancels out the lucky famines and upheavals that happened in the old world that benefited the colonial powers but it is similar to OTL, the POD is unclear.
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kasumigenx
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Post by kasumigenx on Jun 21, 2021 23:04:55 GMT
Peace of Westphalia
Peace of Westphalia
Freepedia
On the end of the 30 years war, the peace of Westphalia the Polish population in Silesia and continguous to the Population of Polish Lithuanian Commonwealth would be intact just like before the war including the Duchy of Cieszyn as well as the German population of Bohemia and the population of the Holy Roman Empire as well as of the Czechs would stay similarly intact, the only things different would be casualties of the war.
The Polish population of Silesia would support the Habsburgs until Poland would annex the Polish inhabited Silesia in the Austrian War of Succession.
In the Duchies of Pomerania the Slavic population would remain intact in the war as well.
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kasumigenx
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Post by kasumigenx on Jun 23, 2021 20:09:21 GMT
Irish Surplus
On 1848, the Irish population would increase that the surplus would migrate to Britain and the new world in the United States and Canada creating an Irish population.
The Irish Population would shape and participate in the history of Great Britain during the reign of Victoria and the Irish would have their own nationalism as well and the Irish would also help the Highlands of Scotland maintain their population.
The Irish would have helped the New World due to the descendants of Irish being important people helping create the diverse nations of the new world.
The Irish Surplus would end on 1870 due to the decline of Birth rates and due to the Surplus population that has left Ireland.
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stevep
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Post by stevep on Jun 24, 2021 10:22:56 GMT
Irish Surplus On 1848, the Irish population would increase that the surplus would migrate to Britain and the new world in the United States and Canada creating an Irish population. The Irish Population would shape and participate in the history of Great Britain during the reign of Victoria and the Irish would have their own nationalism as well and the Irish would also help the Highlands of Scotland maintain their population. The Irish would have helped the New World due to the descendants of Irish being important people helping create the diverse nations of the new world. The Irish Surplus would end on 1870 due to the decline of Birth rates and due to the Surplus population that has left Ireland.
To do this without the famine causing the death of many you probably need Peel's conservatives maintain power rather than the Liberals with their laissez faire policies. In that case there would be government intervention to avoid the worst problems. This could mean that relatively few die, although given the limited resources of the time and nature of the famine some still will do. The diaspora is likely to occur latter as without the dire situation fewer will be ready to leave their homes and families, at least in terms of travel to N America, which was both expensive and highly risky at this period. This could mean that the higher population in Ireland means more industrial development.
The absorption of large numbers of Irish into Britain was OTL although they were I think largely quickly assimilated, albeit with some tensions. Those staying in Ireland are going to maintain a national identity but with the famine being far less devastating its likely to be more moderate and inclusive.
I can't see the highlands of Scotland maintaining substantial populations. Not only were those communities very poor but also the landlords, who realised they could make more money from raising sheep than from crofters rents would have the power and inclination for the OTL clearances to make themselves more money. Plus I think that the clearances had started prior to the crisis in Ireland so it would be too late.
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kasumigenx
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Post by kasumigenx on Jun 24, 2021 13:33:00 GMT
Irish Surplus On 1848, the Irish population would increase that the surplus would migrate to Britain and the new world in the United States and Canada creating an Irish population. The Irish Population would shape and participate in the history of Great Britain during the reign of Victoria and the Irish would have their own nationalism as well and the Irish would also help the Highlands of Scotland maintain their population. The Irish would have helped the New World due to the descendants of Irish being important people helping create the diverse nations of the new world. The Irish Surplus would end on 1870 due to the decline of Birth rates and due to the Surplus population that has left Ireland.
To do this without the famine causing the death of many you probably need Peel's conservatives maintain power rather than the Liberals with their laissez faire policies. In that case there would be government intervention to avoid the worst problems. This could mean that relatively few die, although given the limited resources of the time and nature of the famine some still will do. The diaspora is likely to occur latter as without the dire situation fewer will be ready to leave their homes and families, at least in terms of travel to N America, which was both expensive and highly risky at this period. This could mean that the higher population in Ireland means more industrial development.
The absorption of large numbers of Irish into Britain was OTL although they were I think largely quickly assimilated, albeit with some tensions. Those staying in Ireland are going to maintain a national identity but with the famine being far less devastating its likely to be more moderate and inclusive.
I can't see the highlands of Scotland maintaining substantial populations. Not only were those communities very poor but also the landlords, who realised they could make more money from raising sheep than from crofters rents would have the power and inclination for the OTL clearances to make themselves more money. Plus I think that the clearances had started prior to the crisis in Ireland so it would be too late.
My plan is an Independent Ireland as a repulic or under the Wittelsbachs/Jacobites. |
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stevep
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Post by stevep on Jun 24, 2021 17:22:52 GMT
To do this without the famine causing the death of many you probably need Peel's conservatives maintain power rather than the Liberals with their laissez faire policies. In that case there would be government intervention to avoid the worst problems. This could mean that relatively few die, although given the limited resources of the time and nature of the famine some still will do. The diaspora is likely to occur latter as without the dire situation fewer will be ready to leave their homes and families, at least in terms of travel to N America, which was both expensive and highly risky at this period. This could mean that the higher population in Ireland means more industrial development.
The absorption of large numbers of Irish into Britain was OTL although they were I think largely quickly assimilated, albeit with some tensions. Those staying in Ireland are going to maintain a national identity but with the famine being far less devastating its likely to be more moderate and inclusive.
I can't see the highlands of Scotland maintaining substantial populations. Not only were those communities very poor but also the landlords, who realised they could make more money from raising sheep than from crofters rents would have the power and inclination for the OTL clearances to make themselves more money. Plus I think that the clearances had started prior to the crisis in Ireland so it would be too late.
My plan is an Independent Ireland with its own countries or under the Wittelsbachs/Jacobites.
Not sure what you mean by its own countries? Colonies? or countys? How would they persuade the north to join them or are you assuming they somehow conquer it, possibly aided by some power hostile to Britain?
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kasumigenx
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Post by kasumigenx on Jun 25, 2021 10:06:59 GMT
My plan is an Independent Ireland with its own countries or under the Wittelsbachs/Jacobites.
Not sure what you mean by its own countries? Colonies? or countys? How would they persuade the north to join them or are you assuming they somehow conquer it, possibly aided by some power hostile to Britain?
I meant being a republic or under jacobites, North would not join them as IOTL. |
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stevep
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Post by stevep on Jun 25, 2021 12:07:16 GMT
Not sure what you mean by its own countries? Colonies? or countys? How would they persuade the north to join them or are you assuming they somehow conquer it, possibly aided by some power hostile to Britain?
I meant being a republic or under jacobites, North would not join them as IOTL.
OK thanks for clarifying. Not sure whether a Jacobite monarchy would be that practical as the latter Steward's weren't that popular in Ireland after Jamese II fled the country after the defeat at the Boyne. Plus unless the king formally dropped his claims to the throne of the north and of Great Britain it would be an unacceptable threat to the UK.
A republic would be manageable and hopefully you could avoid a d**k-head like de Valera getting control and inflicting a couple of generations of misery on the country.
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kasumigenx
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Post by kasumigenx on Jun 25, 2021 13:44:18 GMT
I meant being a republic or under jacobites, North would not join them as IOTL.
OK thanks for clarifying. Not sure whether a Jacobite monarchy would be that practical as the latter Steward's weren't that popular in Ireland after Jamese II fled the country after the defeat at the Boyne. Plus unless the king formally dropped his claims to the throne of the north and of Great Britain it would be an unacceptable threat to the UK.
A republic would be manageable and hopefully you could avoid a d**k-head like de Valera getting control and inflicting a couple of generations of misery on the country.
Plus it would be Gaelic. |
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kasumigenx
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Post by kasumigenx on Jun 27, 2021 18:30:22 GMT
Maria Theresa
On 1736, Maria Theresa, the heiress of the Austrian Inheritance would marry Francis the heir of Lorraine, the House of Lorraine would replace the Habsburgs in Austria.
On 1743, Maria Theresa and Francis of Lorraine would transfer Lower Silesia North of Oder and the Duchies of Opole, Raciborz and Cieszyn to her cousin, Maria Amalia’s husband, Frederick Augustus due to the Polish majority of these areas and Maria Theresa in exchange of the suzerainty of Prussia and Lorraine would be given up to France in exchange for the Duchy of Tuscany.
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kasumigenx
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Post by kasumigenx on Jul 4, 2021 19:13:57 GMT
Sonora
The Spanish would gradually expand in California in Oregon and the Nootka region which is now known as parts of the region informally called as the Sonora territory which is the Northern part of the New Spain that is majorly inhabited by Whites.
The Spanish would start to slowly colonize California and Texas territories slowly during the 17th to 18th century, the Spanish would focus on the colonization of the North of Mexico or the land informally called as Sonora more and made it a part of the Alcapulco trade, the transfer of the Louisiana territory to the Spanish prior to the end of the 7 years war would make the Louisiana territory a part Sonora region in the North of New Spain.
Sonora would be inhabited by the Irish and Italian immigrants as well which would enrich Sonora during the 19th century creating a hugely Catholic White bloc in the North of Mexico.
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stevep
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Post by stevep on Jul 11, 2021 15:49:18 GMT
The annexation of the 13 colonies by Spain On the end of the 7 years war, the Spanish would start to Expand in Louisiana settling the area with Italian and German colonists from the Holy Roman Empire with the help of the Austrians and the French and the Spanish would plot the annexation of the British American colonies due to the upheavals in the British American Colonies, the 13 Colonies would fight for their independence and ally with the Spanish only to end up gobbled in whole by New Spain in 1770 since the treaty with the British would cede the 13 colonies to the Spanish, the colony of Virginia would be renamed as Isabela during the reign of Queen Isabella II. On Potomac river would be established the new capital of New Spain named Nueva Madrid on 1770 and settled it with Spanish, Burgundian and Italian Immigrants which would be made the other capital of Spain in the new world. The settlers from Spain who fled with the King on 1808 would also settle in both Sonora or now the Core of New Spain and the 13 colonies. On 1808 the revolt of the Mestizos and Natives would start to happen 1815 after the return of the royals from Mexico the regions of South of Mexico with a mestizo and native population as well as the Southern and Central Americas would start to revolt and Spain would fail to manage to fight the new revolts as they are aided by Napoleonic France.
That would be a no goer because of both demographics and the cultural differences. With such a more powerful Spanish giant on their doorstep you would probably avoid the American revolution totally. In fact I suspect the colonists would be quite willing to make some contribution towards their own defence in this scenario.
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kasumigenx
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Post by kasumigenx on Jul 12, 2021 8:07:24 GMT
Tungning and Mindanao
On the 17th century, the Kingdom of Tungning would conquer the Dutch in Mindanao as well as threaten the Spanish in the South that they would sack Manila if the Spanish don’t give them their own tributes but the Kingdom of Tungning would be conquered by the Qing Empire in 1683 while the Kingdom of Selurong in the North which are allied to the Dutch which would solidify itself in the treaty of Lisbon in 1668 gaining the provinces of Cagayan, Pampanga, Ilocos, and Pangasinan which were under the Spanish, similar to the earlier loss of Celebes in the 1650s.
The Spanish in Mindanao would also lose due to the prowess of the Sultan Kudarat and the Spanish would abandon their colonies in Zamboanga, from 1663 to 1718 the Maguindanao Sultanate would rule Mindanao and the Spanish would regain fort Pilar in Zamboanga in 1719, the Spanish or Chavacano population of Mindanao would prove their own loyalty to the Spanish, the new language would also spread in the Sultanate of Maguindanao due to the settlement of the Speakers of Chavacano in Davao and Cotabato.
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kasumigenx
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Post by kasumigenx on Jul 12, 2021 8:11:48 GMT
The annexation of the 13 colonies by Spain On the end of the 7 years war, the Spanish would start to Expand in Louisiana settling the area with Italian and German colonists from the Holy Roman Empire with the help of the Austrians and the French and the Spanish would plot the annexation of the British American colonies due to the upheavals in the British American Colonies, the 13 Colonies would fight for their independence and ally with the Spanish only to end up gobbled in whole by New Spain in 1770 since the treaty with the British would cede the 13 colonies to the Spanish, the colony of Virginia would be renamed as Isabela during the reign of Queen Isabella II. On Potomac river would be established the new capital of New Spain named Nueva Madrid on 1770 and settled it with Spanish, Burgundian and Italian Immigrants which would be made the other capital of Spain in the new world. The settlers from Spain who fled with the King on 1808 would also settle in both Sonora or now the Core of New Spain and the 13 colonies. On 1808 the revolt of the Mestizos and Natives would start to happen 1815 after the return of the royals from Mexico the regions of South of Mexico with a mestizo and native population as well as the Southern and Central Americas would start to revolt and Spain would fail to manage to fight the new revolts as they are aided by Napoleonic France.
That would be a no goer because of both demographics and the cultural differences. With such a more powerful Spanish giant on their doorstep you would probably avoid the American revolution totally. In fact I suspect the colonists would be quite willing to make some contribution towards their own defence in this scenario.
The Catholic settlers from New Spain would spill to the 13 colonies...which I added further complicating the situation. |
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stevep
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Post by stevep on Jul 12, 2021 15:22:23 GMT
That would be a no goer because of both demographics and the cultural differences. With such a more powerful Spanish giant on their doorstep you would probably avoid the American revolution totally. In fact I suspect the colonists would be quite willing to make some contribution towards their own defence in this scenario.
The Catholic settlers from New Spain would spill to the 13 colonies...which I added further complicating the situation.
Their more likely to settle the currently very thinly populated new colonies of Louisanna and what because Texas and California. Think their too few to make any impact further east although growing Spanish settlement in regions the British colonists want to expand into - i.e. across the Mississippi would cause a lot of desire from the latter for British support and hence make any rebellion unlikely to gain much [if any] traction.
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