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Post by american2006 on Feb 18, 2021 2:17:25 GMT
So, given the state I just finished in Texas (no power and the problems that come with it) how could one effectively shut down the global energy grid, given current technologies with realstic evolution and geopolitics not radically different then right now.
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stevep
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Post by stevep on Feb 18, 2021 12:42:53 GMT
So, given the state I just finished in Texas (no power and the problems that come with it) how could one effectively shut down the global energy grid, given current technologies with realstic evolution and geopolitics not radically different then right now.
Well there have been suggestions that a few high altitude nukes designed to give large EMP impacts would do a lot of that, as well as cream a lot of other technology. This has been an issue that people have been aware of for decades but whether anyone had actually done anything to harden civil power systems, which extends to more than just the power stations themselves I don't know.
Alternatively there was a famous case in the NE US back in the 1960's or 70's where because of problems with one or two stations going down, due to extreme weather IIRC, you got a cascade effect as other parts of the network shut down to avoid overloads and that region of the country had pretty much a total power outage. Think there was something similar in the Quebec region of Canada a few years later. Again not sure if modern set-ups are secure against such issues. However since the industry in Britain was privatised in the 1980's the buffer margin or reserve power has been cut fairly drastically. As such possibly some sort of terror attack on either a couple of key stations or simply the supply network might have some effect like that, at least in a single country or region.
The other obvious action is probably some sort of cyber-warfare strike which if successful could be devastating.
Those are the things that immediately come to mind. Probably a few other things that could be done. Of course, unless your got a fair number of nukes and can deliver them quickly and efficiency the effect is likely to be regional rather than world wide. Even so its likely to be very bad for those regions and with key areas i.e. N America, Europe, China/FE the knock on effects, economic and otherwise would be markedly wider.
Now excuse me. I just have to email the FBI about a potential terror threat from american2006, 
Steve
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lordroel
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Post by lordroel on Feb 18, 2021 15:47:53 GMT
So, given the state I just finished in Texas (no power and the problems that come with it) how could one effectively shut down the global energy grid, given current technologies with realstic evolution and geopolitics not radically different then right now. Why the future, hackers are now able to shut down the power grid if they want to. |
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Post by american2006 on Feb 18, 2021 15:48:56 GMT
So, given the state I just finished in Texas (no power and the problems that come with it) how could one effectively shut down the global energy grid, given current technologies with realstic evolution and geopolitics not radically different then right now.
Well there have been suggestions that a few high altitude nukes designed to give large EMP impacts would do a lot of that, as well as cream a lot of other technology. This has been an issue that people have been aware of for decades but whether anyone had actually done anything to harden civil power systems, which extends to more than just the power stations themselves I don't know.
Alternatively there was a famous case in the NE US back in the 1960's or 70's where because of problems with one or two stations going down, due to extreme weather IIRC, you got a cascade effect as other parts of the network shut down to avoid overloads and that region of the country had pretty much a total power outage. Think there was something similar in the Quebec region of Canada a few years later. Again not sure if modern set-ups are secure against such issues. However since the industry in Britain was privatised in the 1980's the buffer margin or reserve power has been cut fairly drastically. As such possibly some sort of terror attack on either a couple of key stations or simply the supply network might have some effect like that, at least in a single country or region.
The other obvious action is probably some sort of cyber-warfare strike which if successful could be devastating.
Those are the things that immediately come to mind. Probably a few other things that could be done. Of course, unless your got a fair number of nukes and can deliver them quickly and efficiency the effect is likely to be regional rather than world wide. Even so its likely to be very bad for those regions and with key areas i.e. N America, Europe, China/FE the knock on effects, economic and otherwise would be markedly wider.
Now excuse me. I just have to email the FBI about a potential terror threat from american2006 ,
Steve
Please, the way I would commit an act of terrorism would be under the influence of some pretty heavy drugs, which I've never used. I was thinking more along the lines of a weather event, such as a sick typoon in the Middle East at the same time as Venezuela collapsing and an event like W.S. Uri in Texas, plus perhaps something in Alaska As per cyberwarfare, would an EMP really take out the global grid? I'm pretty sure we have various backups for EMPs such as alternate power supplies, that and it should be pretty easy to get stuff back online with proper co-ordination. stevep Aren't you British? Why email the FBI when MI-6 would be more appropriate?  |
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Post by american2006 on Feb 18, 2021 15:50:34 GMT
So, given the state I just finished in Texas (no power and the problems that come with it) how could one effectively shut down the global energy grid, given current technologies with realstic evolution and geopolitics not radically different then right now. Why the future, hackers are now able to shut down the power grid if they want to. I was admid the response to Stevep's post when you posted. Would a hacker or a group of hackers be able to take out the entire global grid at once? If so, why haven't they tried. Certainly there are protections against it else it would of happened previously. |
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lordroel
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Post by lordroel on Feb 18, 2021 15:53:08 GMT
Why the future, hackers are now able to shut down the power grid if they want to. I was admid the response to Stevep's post when you posted. Would a hacker or a group of hackers be able to take out the entire global grid at once? If so, why haven't they tried. Certainly there are protections against it else it would of happened previously. Not the entire global grid at once but a local grid, that could happen, also we do not know if it has not happen, doubt the power companies are going to advertise that they have been hacked. Unless we speak about the far future where the entire Earth has one single global grid. |
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stevep
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Post by stevep on Feb 18, 2021 18:28:59 GMT
Well there have been suggestions that a few high altitude nukes designed to give large EMP impacts would do a lot of that, as well as cream a lot of other technology. This has been an issue that people have been aware of for decades but whether anyone had actually done anything to harden civil power systems, which extends to more than just the power stations themselves I don't know.
Alternatively there was a famous case in the NE US back in the 1960's or 70's where because of problems with one or two stations going down, due to extreme weather IIRC, you got a cascade effect as other parts of the network shut down to avoid overloads and that region of the country had pretty much a total power outage. Think there was something similar in the Quebec region of Canada a few years later. Again not sure if modern set-ups are secure against such issues. However since the industry in Britain was privatised in the 1980's the buffer margin or reserve power has been cut fairly drastically. As such possibly some sort of terror attack on either a couple of key stations or simply the supply network might have some effect like that, at least in a single country or region.
The other obvious action is probably some sort of cyber-warfare strike which if successful could be devastating.
Those are the things that immediately come to mind. Probably a few other things that could be done. Of course, unless your got a fair number of nukes and can deliver them quickly and efficiency the effect is likely to be regional rather than world wide. Even so its likely to be very bad for those regions and with key areas i.e. N America, Europe, China/FE the knock on effects, economic and otherwise would be markedly wider.
Now excuse me. I just have to email the FBI about a potential terror threat from american2006 ,
Steve
Please, the way I would commit an act of terrorism would be under the influence of some pretty heavy drugs, which I've never used. I was thinking more along the lines of a weather event, such as a sick typoon in the Middle East at the same time as Venezuela collapsing and an event like W.S. Uri in Texas, plus perhaps something in Alaska As per cyberwarfare, would an EMP really take out the global grid? I'm pretty sure we have various backups for EMPs such as alternate power supplies, that and it should be pretty easy to get stuff back online with proper co-ordination. stevep Aren't you British? Why email the FBI when MI-6 would be more appropriate?
I'm not sure they get typhoon's in the ME plus with national stockpiles and stuff being shipped that wouldn't mean an immediate shut down which might give time to avoid a total collapse.
Hopefully there are back-ups for such an attack but I know it was a concern a while back and might still be, at least in the commercial sector. A single high altitude blast wouldn't affect the entire world but a number of them in the right place could cause a lot of damage over huge areas. When I was still at work I remember seeing plots of possible Soviet EMP pulse attacks over both Europe and N America and single blasts could affect large chunks of each continent.
I'm not sure that MO-6 would be sending people into Texas to arrest an American.
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stevep
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Post by stevep on Feb 18, 2021 18:33:04 GMT
I was admid the response to Stevep's post when you posted. Would a hacker or a group of hackers be able to take out the entire global grid at once? If so, why haven't they tried. Certainly there are protections against it else it would of happened previously. Not the entire global grid at once but a local grid, that could happen, also we do not know if it has not happen, doubt the power companies are going to advertise that they have been hacked. Unless we speak about the far future where the entire Earth has one single global grid.
Any group of hackers are unlikely to want to take out the entire global grid unless they wish to force a rapid and probably very destructive collapse of human society. More likely as Lordroel says its more likely that a group for whatever reason are going to target a region/state or possibly simply a single plant. Thinking in the latter case the motive would be criminal gain. Take out plant X and let the company involved know - if you don't want the rest of your plants to go under send X millions to Swiss bank account Y or something like that.
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