James G
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Post by James G on Feb 5, 2021 16:00:05 GMT
Where would be the best point in time for Alaska to be sold, or lost in a post-conflict exchange, by the Russian Empire to the British? Does it stay in British, later Canadian, hands too?
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lordroel
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Post by lordroel on Feb 5, 2021 16:10:37 GMT
Where would be the best point in time for Alaska to be sold, or lost in a post-conflict exchange, by the Russian Empire to the British? Does it stay in British, later Canadian, hands too? The United States losing the Civil War and thus having no money ore interest in buying Alaska.
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Post by american2006 on Feb 5, 2021 17:43:30 GMT
Where would be the best point in time for Alaska to be sold, or lost in a post-conflict exchange, by the Russian Empire to the British? Does it stay in British, later Canadian, hands too? The United States losing the Civil War and thus having no money ore interest in buying Alaska. But then why would Britain want to buy it? There interests in North America, especially a remote region, are very little at that time
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lordroel
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Post by lordroel on Feb 5, 2021 18:06:31 GMT
The United States losing the Civil War and thus having no money ore interest in buying Alaska. But then why would Britain want to buy it? There interests in North America, especially a remote region, are very little at that time What about Canada, is that a remote region. If the United Kingdom buys it, then nobody else can buy it and get a border with Canada which might pose a security treat.
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gillan1220
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Post by gillan1220 on Feb 5, 2021 18:43:44 GMT
Britain takes Alaska during the Crimean War, thus adding another land to its Empire.
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James G
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Post by James G on Feb 5, 2021 18:58:51 GMT
Britain takes Alaska during the Crimean War, thus adding another land to its Empire. Possible. It could have been given when something else was sought... then the British were owners when gold was discovered.
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stevep
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Post by stevep on Feb 6, 2021 14:34:09 GMT
Britain takes Alaska during the Crimean War, thus adding another land to its Empire.
I do remember hearing somewhere that Britain deliberately avoided attacking Alaska during the Crimean War to avoid upsetting the US, although how accurate that is I don't know. There were naval and marine activities in the Russian far east during the conflict but not against Alaska.
Would think that for whatever reason the US declines interest in Alaska - it was criticised as "Steward's folly" at the time and with Russia seeking to sell it to gain funds and remove a distant colony that was probably a net drain on resources Canada, which gained dominion status on 1867 could well, with British support end up buying it. A US defeat, or even more expensive success in the civil war would be an obvious step for this but could be other issues.
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Post by simon darkshade on Feb 7, 2021 10:06:53 GMT
Whilst not upsetting the USA was a factor, it wasn’t what it would be later in the 19th century. It simply came down to Alaska not being valuable enough to be the target of the expedition that ended up going to Petropavlovsk.
If the war continues on into a new campaigning season, then we can very easily see Alaska being taken.
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James G
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Post by James G on Feb 7, 2021 10:31:33 GMT
In the Crimean War, British & French naval forces attacked the Russian Empire on all flanks and didn't do so well though. IIRC, they went towards Archangelsk, St. Petes, the Sea of Azov and Petropavlovsk all without success. Alaska might be different, in the following year in a longer war, but earlier actions don't bode too well!
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Post by simon darkshade on Feb 7, 2021 14:41:39 GMT
That must have been different Baltic and Sea of Azov campaigns than I have read about. The White Sea actions were an irrelevance and Petropavlovsk a definite screw up.
The Baltic push towards Kronstadt and St. Petersburg was just getting into swing when the Tsar threw in the towel; seeing the results of the Great Armament go into action would have been very, very interesting. As it stood, there were some notable successes.
If it came to another campaigning season in northern waters, a drover’s dog could have seized Sitka and Alaska.
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stevep
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Post by stevep on Feb 7, 2021 15:33:44 GMT
That must have been different Baltic and Sea of Azov campaigns than I have read about. The White Sea actions were an irrelevance and Petropavlovsk a definite screw up. The Baltic push towards Kronstadt and St. Petersburg was just getting into swing when the Tsar threw in the towel; seeing the results of the Great Armament go into action would have been very, very interesting. As it stood, there were some notable successes. If it came to another campaigning season in northern waters, a drover’s dog could have seized Sitka and Alaska.
That's what I've read about the naval expedition towards St Petersburg. Especially after the success of floating batteries in the south against a set of forts there its supposed to have be a major factor in prompting the Russians to come to terms.
Frankly don't know enough about the Russian position in Alaska to say what defences there were there but I suspect not many and think there was some tension if not conflict between the Russian troops and some of the local natives. If nothing else I could see Britain claiming it as part of the peace terms to simplify the situation in western Canada and since it was seen as a drain on its assets by the Russian government that could have been accepted by them. Technically it would have breached the Monroe Doctrine but that was still very much a paper document at this point in time. [Although in theory I suppose this could prompt a revival of American threats to Canada which could have some interesting butterflies.]
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gillan1220
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Post by gillan1220 on Feb 8, 2021 4:54:08 GMT
For those that need a recap, the Infographics Show just released this video.
Why Russia ACTUALLY Had to Sell Alaska to the United States
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stevep
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Post by stevep on Feb 8, 2021 10:45:40 GMT
For those that need a recap, the Infographics Show just released this video. Why Russia ACTUALLY Had to Sell Alaska to the United States
There are a few factual errors in there but covers the basic details.
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gillan1220
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Post by gillan1220 on Feb 8, 2021 11:01:25 GMT
For those that need a recap, the Infographics Show just released this video. Why Russia ACTUALLY Had to Sell Alaska to the United States
There are a few factual errors in there but covers the basic details.
That's the problem with The Infographics Show. They have a few factual areas but it gives the big picture. Additional research is needed to verify the facts.
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oscssw
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Post by oscssw on Feb 10, 2021 15:02:09 GMT
There are a few factual errors in there but covers the basic details.
That's the problem with The Infographics Show. They have a few factual areas but it gives the big picture. Additional research is needed to verify the facts. From the video I got the idea the Russians needed money to fight the Crimean war. The fact the Crimean war was over by the end of 1856 and the US did not purchase Alaska until 1867; this makes no sense to me.
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