gillan1220
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Post by gillan1220 on Aug 9, 2021 15:52:15 GMT
Three possible paths the DAR goes down: 1) Popular revolution, where Pierce is overthrown and the original vision for the country is put back into place 2) Pierce falls on his own or is taken out, and China -- basically owning and running the country at this point -- put its people into place and turns the DAR into its puppet right on the US doorstep 3) Pierce falls on his own or is taken out, and the US is able to outmaneuver China on all fronts (assuming China doesn't have a strong military presence in the DAR) and establishes its own people in power, with the goal being to move the DAR back into the Union In any case, good work James G . I'd love to see your take on the Star Trek-verse World War III, in case you're looking for ideas. 1 is unlikely, not with such strength. 2 or 3 are more possible. But then again, the DAR might survive for the foreseeable future. I have several ideas for a new story. I'll wait a bit, do some flash fiction/orbats/politics shorts first. I am not a Trekkie though! Options #2 and #3 would lead into World War III. The U.S. had enough and any Chinese incursions into the continent would be met with nuclear weapons. EDIT: What happened to MAR here? I was thinking we could see the trial. The US would have to, have to, fight if China established itself properly in the DAR. She is mentioned in the epilogue as going on trial but I didn't want to drag out the finish too much with details. She'd end up in prison for the rest of her life. For now, the PRC would enjoy the spoils of being the sole-superpower. Welcome to the Chinese Century. A truly dystopic world.
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ricobirch
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Post by ricobirch on Aug 9, 2021 18:18:19 GMT
Nice work James, another truly horrifying dystopia.
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sandyman
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Post by sandyman on Aug 10, 2021 13:59:10 GMT
Well done James yet another great story a very entertaining read
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James G
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Post by James G on Aug 10, 2021 17:49:23 GMT
1 is unlikely, not with such strength. 2 or 3 are more possible. But then again, the DAR might survive for the foreseeable future. I have several ideas for a new story. I'll wait a bit, do some flash fiction/orbats/politics shorts first. I am not a Trekkie though! The US would have to, have to, fight if China established itself properly in the DAR. She is mentioned in the epilogue as going on trial but I didn't want to drag out the finish too much with details. She'd end up in prison for the rest of her life. For now, the PRC would enjoy the spoils of being the sole-superpower. Welcome to the Chinese Century. A truly dystopic world. Five Eyes might argue different, but that is if the cooperation to help the US when it was at its weakest will last. Nice work James, another truly horrifying dystopia. Thank you. Not my initial intent, but betraying that revolution and having the underdog win was just too tempting not to do. Well done James yet another great story a very entertaining read Thank you. Look for a new one when I start it. (Nope: no date nor subject yet. One will come though)
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lordroel
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Post by lordroel on Aug 10, 2021 18:00:03 GMT
(Nope: no date nor subject yet. One will come though) By now you are this forum court supplier of World War III TLs, so take it easy.
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gillan1220
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Post by gillan1220 on Sept 10, 2021 5:46:31 GMT
I'll continue the side story Republican in the Sea of Blue. It would involve Alyssa and her fiance moving into the East now that California, her home, is now part of the DAR. It will be a tearjerker story.
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gillan1220
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Post by gillan1220 on Sept 13, 2021 7:52:22 GMT
A Republican in the Sea of Blue - Part 2
Alyssa Theodore could not believe it.
Her beloved United States gave in to the Democratic American Republic's push for independence. Since the start of the civil war, she had been hoping that the mighty and numerically superior numbers of the United States Armed Forces would crush the traitors led by those in Las Vegas. In fact, that's what it appeared in the first few days of the split. Unfortunately, the DAR stole a secret U.S. cyberweapon known as Glowworm. The computer virus humbled the might of the armor and air forces that Washington could throw at those in Las Vegas. Maria Arreola Rodriguez, the former President-elect and President of the DAR, and her usurper, former California Governor Samuel Pierce, knew they could not fight the United States military head on, much less march all the way past the Mississippi River all the way up to Maine. However, what the Council of Thirteen knew is that the DAR Armed Forces did not need to. All the DAR had to do was to deny so much access to their eastern enemies by using the computer virus to ground its planes to a halt and keep the casualties high on the ground.
Glowworm was attributed to the success of the DAR's secession.
"Bastards should have used it against China," Alyssa thought.
America's defeat in the defense of Taiwan still rang threw her mind. Why the hell the Walsh administration is beyond her. She was always a Republican ever since she was 18.
After the war, Alyssa and her fiancé were making preparations to head to the United States. Part of the agreements to end the Second American War allowed Americans of both sides to freely settle wherever they wish, be it in the east or the west. It was a difficult decision for Alyssa, for she considered California her home. Now that it belongs to the DAR, she only had one choice if she wanted to continue living in California: pledge allegiance to the DAR.
It was something she could not do for her allegiance was towards the United States.
Being an owner of a horse ranch, her fiancé used his connections to find a ranch for sale in Texas. It was not too far from the DAR border in El Paso. The two accepted it as Texas aligned with their political beliefs. Texas after all remained red and loyal to the United States.
On March 22, 2029, Alyssa and her fiancé moved out of California, followed by a truck that carried her horses. The traffic of cars moving out of the West Coast was numerous. Both of them were stuck in hours-long traffic jam. Alyssa was concerned about the welfare of her horses so she made sure they were stocked with hay and water on the long journey to Texas. During the drive with her fiancé on the wheel, she could see other cars from the East moving West.
"Liberal's paradise my ass," Alyssa said. "Once those eastern liberals arrive in the DAR, they will have nothing but disappointment."
She was indeed correct. The DAR may have won its independence but internally, the youngest country in the world was a mess! It had yet to recover from the damages caused by the U.S. cyberattack on its power and water. It had to repair the bomb and missile strikes the U.S. did against the traitors. Its economy was in shambles since Washington threatened to sanction countries that would trade with the DAR. No way it would be a liberal's paradise. Deep inside, Alyssa wished that traitor Pierce was killed or assassinated during the war.
Their car passed the U.S.-DAR border crossing in New Mexico, manned by troops of both sides. Both wore the same uniforms. The only thing that distinguished the soldiers of the DAR was their blue, red, and white cross shoulder flag patch. Showing their documents to the DAR soldiers of their intent to move to the United States, they were let through. They presented the same papers to the U.S. troops on the other side of the border.
Reaching El Paso, Alyssa and her fiancé settled in that empty ranch. For the months that passed, the couple felt at home in Texas which is still part of the United States. In her ranch, she continued to care for horses. She would often ride them around the desert, sometimes watching westward where her home was. Even though she felt home in Texas, things way different back then in California. She missed driving and riding her horses in the backdrop of the Santa Clarita mountains.
Come on September 4, 2029 when the Big One finally struck California, Alyssa agreed if it was indeed an act of God against those traitors in her home state. She felt they deserved it but at the same time felt sympathy for the innocent Americans still living in the DAR.
Outside her ranch in El Paso stood three flag poles. In each flag pole contained three flags: the United States and the state flags of Texas and California, respectively. Asked why she flew the Bear Republic flag in Texas, Alyssa merely replied:
"California, my home."
It was her home no longer.
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spiegel
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Post by spiegel on Nov 14, 2021 11:28:03 GMT
What Happen to Japan like they been screw the Article 9 we had to do something as JSDF got double their numbers of their forces to defend Southeast Asia.
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gillan1220
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I've been depressed recently. Slow replies coming in the next few days.
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Post by gillan1220 on Nov 14, 2021 14:34:23 GMT
What Happen to Japan like they been screw the Article 9 we had to do something as JSDF got double their numbers of their forces to defend Southeast Asia. I think Japan aligned with the India-Australia-Singapore alliance (akin to AUKUS) but its nowhere effective to stop PRC expansionism. India's and by an extent the U.S. nuclear weapons are the only thing keeping China from going Imperial Japan in Asia.
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spiegel
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Post by spiegel on Nov 14, 2021 23:40:31 GMT
What Happen to Japan like they been screw the Article 9 we had to do something as JSDF got double their numbers of their forces to defend Southeast Asia. I think Japan aligned with the India-Australia-Singapore alliance (akin to AUKUS) but its nowhere effective to stop PRC expansionism. India's and by an extent the U.S. nuclear weapons are the only thing keeping China from going Imperial Japan in Asia. JIANZS alliance New Zeeland been part of that.
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vendetta
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Post by vendetta on Feb 2, 2022 5:03:53 GMT
Hello James G, First off, congratulations on writing this story. I found it enthralling and shared it with many of my friends. In fact, I registered an account here just to offer my comments on it. I know it’s a thread you closed out a couple of months ago, but I’ll leave you my thoughts anyway, in case you ever feel like returning for a second edition of this one day (you could easily have a novel on your hands with this one). First, the terms Jacobin and Jacobean are not interchangeable, they mean very different things. The one you want is definitely Jacobin, all references to ‘Jacobean’ Democrats should be updated as such. www.andreazuvich.com/history/jacobean-jacobites-and-jacobinsThe first real hiccup where I found myself questioning the story’s plausibilty was in the final days of the Walsh presidency, when he’s allowing base after base to fall into the hands of the enemy without lifting a finger. The question blaring through my mind as I read this was “why aren’t the Republicans impeaching him?” They have the numbers to do it, and every reason to - what was stopping them? They put their bets on the Cabinet coup but after that failed, I just couldn’t see a reason why they’d sit out the final week as he allows the rebels to seize nuclear weapons without trying to rush through another impeachment like Padley’s. The wartime chapters on the DAR’s side could have benefited from the addition of a rival character or two for Fuller. On the US side we get the sense that there are many different people butting heads over strategy. On the DAR’s side, not so much. We know the politicians keep putting the brakes on him and forcing him to divert forces to their own areas of interest. However, there’s no one who’s actually questioning the fundamentals of his strategy, which, had it not been for the Glowworm miracle play, would have swiftly led them to total defeat. And before the full effects of Glowworm were unleashed, there would have been plenty of reason for someone to question what he was doing, particular if that someone wasn’t in the know about the plans for the virus. These rivals could have pointed out that a static defense would be be doomed to fail given the numbers on the other side, and advocated some more desperate alternative strategies (rattling the nuclear saber, seeking Russian and/or Chinese intervention, concentrating their forces for a blitz into Texas rather than dispersing them to defend the whole front). Fuller having to fend off these challenges and fight to maintain the confidence of both his subordinates and his superiors would be exciting and also answer the reader’s questions about why these other strategies weren’t pursued. Characters like Oakes and Cruz that arrive late in the game could benefit from a few minor appearances early on to establish them as a presence who will become more important later on. There’s a dropped plot thread where you hinted repeatedly at something deeply malicious we didn’t know yet about Lee Mitchell. We never had a chance to find out what that was. The US seems to fold a little too easily once the Glowworm disaster has struck. More scenes where it’s established that the US has thrown every resource it has (and reached out to every feasible ally) into finding a way to contain the virus, and that none of this is working, would have helped sell it better. There’s also no hint that the US ever tried to strike back with another virus of its own. If I were the President I’d have been screaming at the NSA to bring me another virus or create some knockoff version of Glowworm that could bypass the DAR’s countermeasures. Now of course, they might just not have been able to do this - but if there was a possibility they might come up with something if we can just hold on a few months longer, then the US would absolutely have reason to remain in the war. Only once the DAR’s counter-offensive was rolling deep into Texas or closing on the Mississippi with progress on a cure or a counter virus still going nowhere would it seem a good idea to throw in the towel. I enjoyed Pierce’s seizure of power as a twist in the story (one of many great surprises throughout), but I didn’t quite buy how it was done. MAR is the national icon of the DAR, she can’t simply be disappeared and then turned over to the enemy with no explanation. This situation does of course have its echoes with Stalin and Trotsky, but for it to really work, MAR needs to get the same treatment as Trotsky - she needs to be loudly denounced as a traitor and framed for unforgivable crimes. Pierce may be a villain, but he still needs the people of the West to believe that he’s their hero. The most obvious case he can make to the public is that MAR and her accomplices and the Council were plotting to surrender the country, making a deal with the enemy for clemency in exchange. He can also frame her for crimes of his own (embezzling public funds and dealing with Carrillo). I would have enjoyed a scene of MAR having to come to terms with her fall from power and trying to beg and plead her way out to Pierce or anyone else she can get a hold of. I also don’t understand why Pierce would let Eastern Colorado remain in the hands of the enemy when his armies have become more or less unstoppable. For that matter, there’s Hawaii too. The US Navy’s warships are crippled, while the DAR can try to scrape together a fleet centered around one of the two carriers they have in the dockyards. It could still be logistically unfeasible, but I imagine the thought would at least cross the mind of a politician who doesn’t have a deep grasp of military operations (perhaps Fuller would have to explain that no, it’s probably not going to work). If you’re set on East Colorado remaining with the US, we need to know why Pierce chooses peace immediately rather than pressing his advantage even further. Perhaps because the DAR is running out of money, or running out of fuel, or because they’re worried if they wait too long, the US actually will find a cure to Glowworm on their own and recover. The AIA is another loose thread hanging at the end. Green is dead, and Reed is wishing he was, but last we saw they had just pulled off another successful attack, and we know how good these types of organizations tend to endure and recover even after their ringleaders get killed. Generally speaking, the final act of the story seems rushed, in comparison to the lovingly drawn out buildup at the beginning. The story still feels like it has a lot of life left in it, like it was not ready to end where it did. I can perfectly understand author fatigue setting in after spending so long on it (and perhaps having other projects you were eager to move on to). If you ever decide to extend it further though, I would be very excited to see where it led.
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gillan1220
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I've been depressed recently. Slow replies coming in the next few days.
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Post by gillan1220 on Feb 2, 2022 6:11:23 GMT
Hello James G, First off, congratulations on writing this story. I found it enthralling and shared it with many of my friends. In fact, I registered an account here just to offer my comments on it. I know it’s a thread you closed out a couple of months ago, but I’ll leave you my thoughts anyway, in case you ever feel like returning for a second edition of this one day (you could easily have a novel on your hands with this one). First, the terms Jacobin and Jacobean are not interchangeable, they mean very different things. The one you want is definitely Jacobin, all references to ‘Jacobean’ Democrats should be updated as such. www.andreazuvich.com/history/jacobean-jacobites-and-jacobinsThe first real hiccup where I found myself questioning the story’s plausibilty was in the final days of the Walsh presidency, when he’s allowing base after base to fall into the hands of the enemy without lifting a finger. The question blaring through my mind as I read this was “why aren’t the Republicans impeaching him?” They have the numbers to do it, and every reason to - what was stopping them? They put their bets on the Cabinet coup but after that failed, I just couldn’t see a reason why they’d sit out the final week as he allows the rebels to seize nuclear weapons without trying to rush through another impeachment like Padley’s. The wartime chapters on the DAR’s side could have benefited from the addition of a rival character or two for Fuller. On the US side we get the sense that there are many different people butting heads over strategy. On the DAR’s side, not so much. We know the politicians keep putting the brakes on him and forcing him to divert forces to their own areas of interest. However, there’s no one who’s actually questioning the fundamentals of his strategy, which, had it not been for the Glowworm miracle play, would have swiftly led them to total defeat. And before the full effects of Glowworm were unleashed, there would have been plenty of reason for someone to question what he was doing, particular if that someone wasn’t in the know about the plans for the virus. These rivals could have pointed out that a static defense would be be doomed to fail given the numbers on the other side, and advocated some more desperate alternative strategies (rattling the nuclear saber, seeking Russian and/or Chinese intervention, concentrating their forces for a blitz into Texas rather than dispersing them to defend the whole front). Fuller having to fend off these challenges and fight to maintain the confidence of both his subordinates and his superiors would be exciting and also answer the reader’s questions about why these other strategies weren’t pursued. Characters like Oakes and Cruz that arrive late in the game could benefit from a few minor appearances early on to establish them as a presence who will become more important later on. There’s a dropped plot thread where you hinted repeatedly at something deeply malicious we didn’t know yet about Lee Mitchell. We never had a chance to find out what that was. The US seems to fold a little too easily once the Glowworm disaster has struck. More scenes where it’s established that the US has thrown every resource it has (and reached out to every feasible ally) into finding a way to contain the virus, and that none of this is working, would have helped sell it better. There’s also no hint that the US ever tried to strike back with another virus of its own. If I were the President I’d have been screaming at the NSA to bring me another virus or create some knockoff version of Glowworm that could bypass the DAR’s countermeasures. Now of course, they might just not have been able to do this - but if there was a possibility they might come up with something if we can just hold on a few months longer, then the US would absolutely have reason to remain in the war. Only once the DAR’s counter-offensive was rolling deep into Texas or closing on the Mississippi with progress on a cure or a counter virus still going nowhere would it seem a good idea to throw in the towel. I enjoyed Pierce’s seizure of power as a twist in the story (one of many great surprises throughout), but I didn’t quite buy how it was done. MAR is the national icon of the DAR, she can’t simply be disappeared and then turned over to the enemy with no explanation. This situation does of course have its echoes with Stalin and Trotsky, but for it to really work, MAR needs to get the same treatment as Trotsky - she needs to be loudly denounced as a traitor and framed for unforgivable crimes. Pierce may be a villain, but he still needs the people of the West to believe that he’s their hero. The most obvious case he can make to the public is that MAR and her accomplices and the Council were plotting to surrender the country, making a deal with the enemy for clemency in exchange. He can also frame her for crimes of his own (embezzling public funds and dealing with Carrillo). I would have enjoyed a scene of MAR having to come to terms with her fall from power and trying to beg and plead her way out to Pierce or anyone else she can get a hold of. I also don’t understand why Pierce would let Eastern Colorado remain in the hands of the enemy when his armies have become more or less unstoppable. For that matter, there’s Hawaii too. The US Navy’s warships are crippled, while the DAR can try to scrape together a fleet centered around one of the two carriers they have in the dockyards. It could still be logistically unfeasible, but I imagine the thought would at least cross the mind of a politician who doesn’t have a deep grasp of military operations (perhaps Fuller would have to explain that no, it’s probably not going to work). If you’re set on East Colorado remaining with the US, we need to know why Pierce chooses peace immediately rather than pressing his advantage even further. Perhaps because the DAR is running out of money, or running out of fuel, or because they’re worried if they wait too long, the US actually will find a cure to Glowworm on their own and recover. The AIA is another loose thread hanging at the end. Green is dead, and Reed is wishing he was, but last we saw they had just pulled off another successful attack, and we know how good these types of organizations tend to endure and recover even after their ringleaders get killed. Generally speaking, the final act of the story seems rushed, in comparison to the lovingly drawn out buildup at the beginning. The story still feels like it has a lot of life left in it, like it was not ready to end where it did. I can perfectly understand author fatigue setting in after spending so long on it (and perhaps having other projects you were eager to move on to). If you ever decide to extend it further though, I would be very excited to see where it led. The intent of the story is to give way to how the American century finally ends, first starting with the defeat at the hands of the Chinese in the defense of Taiwan, and next the Second American Civil War. Yes, I agree the Taiwan conflict being 40 hours long is too quick. The author's intent was to give a free hand to all of America's enemies in this dystopic story. Sadly, he has left this site and he may not be returning anymore.
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bigvic
Seaman
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Post by bigvic on Mar 19, 2022 4:40:57 GMT
Interesting TL
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lordroel
Administrator
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Post by lordroel on Mar 29, 2022 16:41:13 GMT
It was, also winner of the 2022 L. Sprague de Camp Awards - Best Alternate History Timeline.
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gillan1220
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I've been depressed recently. Slow replies coming in the next few days.
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Post by gillan1220 on Jul 25, 2022 8:57:56 GMT
The Sino-American War happened in Chapter 4 or 5.
China vs United States - Who Will Win WW3? || Military Army Comparison
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