lordroel
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Post by lordroel on Nov 30, 2020 17:37:38 GMT
What a lovely 3-view, thanks for sharing. Sleek jet, really. Shame it never got a chance. There was a Hawker Hunter been given a similar treatment, the P.1083. And exact same fate - canned, scrapped without flying (facepalm). You mean this P.1083.  |
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archibald
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Post by archibald on Dec 4, 2020 13:33:41 GMT
This very one, yes.
See ? Great Britain had everything on hand to get a serie of good aircraft designs like France did. Dassault and non-Dassault combat aircraft, and everything else - cargo, airliners, bombers, attack, helicopters, space program, ballistic missiles, aircraft carriers...
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lordroel
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Post by lordroel on Dec 4, 2020 15:04:08 GMT
This very one, yes. See ? Great Britain had everything on hand to get a serie of good aircraft designs like France did. Dassault and non-Dassault combat aircraft, and everything else - cargo, airliners, bombers, attack, helicopters, space program, ballistic missiles, aircraft carriers... And of course also politics that could shoot down all these nice projects. |
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archibald
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The PRC was standing on the edge of an abyss. And Mao said "let's make a Great Leap Forward"
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Post by archibald on Dec 4, 2020 17:05:47 GMT
The British economy was in advanced state of decay, right from 1945... this was the elephant in the room, indeed.
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archibald
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The PRC was standing on the edge of an abyss. And Mao said "let's make a Great Leap Forward"
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Post by archibald on Dec 6, 2020 15:34:09 GMT
It is well known that the RAF scorned the Buccaneer for an entire decade (1958-1968) "because it is subsonic". And then the amusing irony, they got plenty of Buccaneers from the RN. Least known is the very similar Vautour - Mirage IVA similar, dysfunctional relationship. The Vautour was a formidable aircraft, as proven by what the IDF/AF did of it (including shooting down Hunters, flying to near Egypt-Sudan border on one engine to save fuel, and back... )
When the Israeli pilots come training in France in 1958, they were shocked to see how the Vautour big potential was ignored, ill used.
For France, it was very much a jet-powered A-26 Invader, Norden bombsight included (facepalm).
Yet, when in 1956 bombers were needed for the Force de Frappe, not only was the Mirage IVA created from nothing, but even SNCASO disowned the SO-4050 Vautour to create the SO-4060 "because they must be supersonic". Yet range of the Vautour was so good, it was nearly used as tanker for the Mirage IVs... instead of C-135FR ! The Vautours lasted until 1978 but were never upgraded.
Had Israel aircraft industry started a decade earlier, instead of Nesher / Kfir derived from the Mirage, the Israelis would have loved a massive upgrade of the Vautour. With turbofans to extend the range further, and all kind of advanced avionics and weapons - just like they do, today. The end result ? potentially, something equal or better than a Buccaneer S.2.
I recently discovered that the surviving Vautours had been cleared to carry the same nukes as the Mirage IV - AN-11, AN-21, AN-22.
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archibald
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The PRC was standing on the edge of an abyss. And Mao said "let's make a Great Leap Forward"
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Post by archibald on Dec 14, 2020 11:02:58 GMT
Thirty three. What is remarquable is that "33" is also the numbers of years between 1946 and 1979 - the advent of Maggie Thatcher.
While I have a grudge against the Iron Lady, I readily acknowledge that, for all heir flaws, what she did amounted to... let's call this "a hefty dose of REALISM".
Thatcher, for good or worse, brought an end to many damaging illusions that could have send GB into a wall.
And that's includes aerospace, my domain of interest.
Now, back to "33 years / 33 mistakes / 1946 - 1979"
Remarquably, that's exactly one "aerospace mistake" per year !
That would make a pretty good title for a TL LMAO
"One year, one mistake: a better fate for the British aerospace industry - 1946 - 1979"
(this suppose that aerospace matters don't butterflies Maggie ascent to power in 1979, but hey, it's GB - politics always prevail over aerospace !)
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stevep
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Post by stevep on Dec 14, 2020 15:57:52 GMT
Thirty three. What is remarquable is that "33" is also the numbers of years between 1946 and 1979 - the advent of Maggie Thatcher.
While I have a grudge against the Iron Lady, I readily acknowledge that, for all heir flaws, what she did amounted to... let's call this "a hefty dose of REALISM". Thatcher, for good or worse, brought an end to many damaging illusions that could have send GB into a wall. And that's includes aerospace, my domain of interest. Now, back to "33 years / 33 mistakes / 1946 - 1979" Remarquably, that's exactly one "aerospace mistake" per year ! That would make a pretty good title for a TL LMAO "One year, one mistake: a better fate for the British aerospace industry - 1946 - 1979" (this suppose that aerospace matters don't butterflies Maggie ascent to power in 1979, but hey, it's GB - politics always prevail over aerospace !)
Trying not to derail the thread but would say she introduced a number of far more damaging illusions. Such as a neglect of the national interest and the welfare of the population is fine and leaving everything to short term market private interests. The 70's were a dire time in many ways but there were still hope for something better and a stronger nation, as well as the potential boost from North Sea Oil but all this was thrown away in the 80's and since. I fear its going to take a very long time to recover the ground lost since 1979, even when we have a government willing to try and make things better.
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ukron
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Post by ukron on Jan 4, 2021 16:01:41 GMT
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lordroel
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Post by lordroel on Jan 4, 2021 16:11:32 GMT
If they had some before the 1989 then most likely they would have reverse engineer them, the J-10 the PLAAF has now would look like a Chinese Mirage 2000. |
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