simon darkshade
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Post by simon darkshade on Jul 21, 2021 11:42:17 GMT
British Army Air Defence 1967/68:
As a result of some of the exercises of 1963 onwards, the discussions of 1964 in ANJ and the 1967 Defence White Paper, the British Army has made some notable changes to its air defence arrangements by the late 1960s.
Missiles
Firstly, the English Electric Thunderbird has been replaced by the Thunderbird 2, which provides for an incremental improvement in performance and is fielded on a mobile tracked vehicle or on a 8x8 lorry. It has a range of 50 miles, a speed of Mach 3.8 and a maximum altitude of 75,000ft. Each division has an organic force of 24 launcher vehicles, which each have 2 ready to fire missiles.
Secondly, the PT.428 Rapier is deployed with the divisional ADR fielding 32 octuple launchers. Range is 25,000 yards, speed is Mach 3.75 and maximum altitude is 40,000ft. It is augmented in short range air defence is provided by the Armstrong-Whitworth EG.324 Sabre, which engages targets between 800 and 8000 yards and to a height of 20,000ft at a speed of Mach 4.5; 64 quad launchers are fielded. The latter has a role/mission closer to the @ Rapier.
There is an aim to replace the latter two missiles with a single type and a more advanced project to replace both Thunderbird and Bloodhound with a common missile for mobile and fixed air defence.
Guns
AA Guns are now attached directly at Battalion level as follows:
24 x twin 42mm Marksman: 2/Battalion
72 x quad 25mm Sharpshooter: 6/Battalion
Each division is scheduled to have 24 x 3.75” Vickers Whirlwind SPAAGs attached by 1970.
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Post by simon darkshade on Jul 22, 2021 5:37:25 GMT
British Army Anti-Tank Capabilities 1967/68
In the same context as the modernisation and improvement of air defences, there has been several changes to anti tank defences/warfare. This will look at the weapons and vehicles attached to infantry and armoured units, which are the second main line of defence, behind the main one - other tanks. RAF ground attack aircraft such as the Gloster Lion and the development of RFC attack helicopters is a separate matter, but they play their own parts.
Individual Weapons
The 75mm Rocket L1A1 is the lightest man portable AT weapon, suitable for side and rear shots, particularly against older tanks. The Longbow rocket launcher provides a much more effective punch.
Crew Served Weapons
Recoilless Rifles
The L2 Battalion Anti Tank gun is a 125mm recoilless rifle firing a specially modified HESH or HEAT rounds out to 2500 yards. The more mobile variant of the above with its gun shield removed is the L5 WOMBAT. It is carried on Austin Champions or Land Rovers, but a project for an automatic belt fed version mounted on a light self propelled vehicle is underway. In either case, 4 weapons are deployed with Anti-Tank Platoons at battalion level. They are each equipped with an arcane automatic ranging and sighting device.
Light and Medium ATGMs
The first generation Vickers Vigilant is now found only in the TA and will be replaced by 1975. The Fairey Swingfire medium ATGM is deployed at battalion level with infantry Guided Weapons Platoons and in the FV 438 (4 in every armoured regiment and mechanised battalion). It has a faster initial firing speed due to advanced wire guidance experience. It is considered to be a close second to the US TOW.
There is a gap for a shorter range/light fire and forget missile like the M47 Dragon, the German Draufgänger or the French MILAN.
Heavy and Superheavy ATGMs
The Hawker-Siddeley Javelin general purpose missile is deployed with teams of 4 quad launchers at brigade level and, with its considerably long range, doesn’t have a precise equivalent either Eastern nor Western.The Hawker Siddeley Maelstrom, carried by the FV-440 Strongbow, is also deployed at brigade level with four vehicles, each with 2 missiles. It has a 10” diameter warhead and can inflict the degree of damage that Malkara could a decade earlier on conventional tank armour. It is, however, something of a developmental dead end. Maelstrom is nicknamed ‘The Kitchen Sink’.
There are some classified projects underway for the testing of 75mm, 90mm and 125mm anti-tank guns, possibly for postulated airborne armoured or light self-propelled vehicles.
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simon darkshade
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Post by simon darkshade on Aug 8, 2021 11:22:43 GMT
In the spirit of the Tokyo Games, I give you Olympic Sports of Dark Earth:
Diving
Swimming
Water Polo
Canoeing
Rowing
Gymnastics
Weightlifting
Equestrian: Dressage, Showjumping, Eventing
Sailing
Athletics (including Tug of War and Armoured Run)
Chariot Racing
Pentathlon
Triathlon
Boxing
Wrestling: Freestyle and Greco-Roman
Fencing: Foil, Sabre, Epee and Free Sword
Jousting
Shooting
Archery
Hockey
Cycling: Road and Track
Basketball
Polo
Cricket
Tennis
Soccer
Rugby
Lacrosse
Cannon shooting
Gliding
Martial Arts: Eastern and Western open (no set categories and similarity to Pankration)
Hare and Hounds
Fell Running
Melee
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lordroel
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Post by lordroel on Aug 8, 2021 11:39:47 GMT
In the spirit of the Tokyo Games, I give you Olympic Sports of Dark Earth: Cannon shooting So no Field gun competition. |
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simon darkshade
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Post by simon darkshade on Aug 8, 2021 11:55:50 GMT
No, that is rather more suited to the Royal Tournament and military tattoos than an international sporting competition.
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lordroel
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Post by lordroel on Aug 8, 2021 12:01:21 GMT
In the spirit of the Tokyo Games, I give you Olympic Sports of Dark Earth: Fell Running Had to look it up, seems it exist in real life. |
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Post by simon darkshade on Aug 8, 2021 12:27:44 GMT
It provides for a cross-country/hill running mix, with a bit of rough terrain thrown in for good measure.
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stevep
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Post by stevep on Aug 8, 2021 21:17:22 GMT
In the spirit of the Tokyo Games, I give you Olympic Sports of Dark Earth: Diving Swimming Water Polo Canoeing Rowing Gymnastics Weightlifting Equestrian: Dressage, Showjumping, Eventing Sailing Athletics (including Tug of War and Armoured Run) Chariot Racing Pentathlon Triathlon Boxing Wrestling: Freestyle and Greco-Roman Fencing: Foil, Sabre, Epee and Free Sword JoustingShooting Archery Hockey Cycling: Road and Track Basketball Polo Cricket Tennis Soccer Rugby Lacrosse Cannon shootingGliding Martial Arts: Eastern and Western open (no set categories and similarity to Pankration) Hare and HoundsFell Running Melee
Well there are certain ones that stand out as distinctly different. Presumably Armoured Run - involves running in some sort of armour - possibly even a 'classical' medieval suit? Which raises all sorts of questions on rules for what are valid suits and how do you handicap for size say, since a taller person while be carrying more armour all other things being the same. Jousting - I can see that fitting in with the more aristocratic mindset of DE. Cannon shooting - I can see that being a skill but how you make it a sport does seem a bit of a stretch. Are those old fashioned cannons, with basic sold shot balls? Hare and Hounds - Presumably the winner is the one who catches the Hare? Melee - Some sort of combat free for all?
Steve
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simon darkshade
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Post by simon darkshade on Aug 9, 2021 7:07:16 GMT
Steve,
The Armoured Run is a variation on the ancient Hoplitodromos, using late 19th century armour as the nearest equivalent.
Jousting is quite keenly contested, in the manner of some renewed medieval jousting competitions.
Cannon shooting was an exhibition sport in 1900 at Paris in @.
Hare and Hounds is a more sophisticated variant with victory to the successful hare.
Melee, coming in mounted and foot, comes from the feature of High Medieval tournaments.
Simon
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stevep
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Post by stevep on Aug 9, 2021 16:33:42 GMT
Steve, The Armoured Run is a variation on the ancient Hoplitodromos, using late 19th century armour as the nearest equivalent. Jousting is quite keenly contested, in the manner of some renewed medieval jousting competitions.
Cannon shooting was an exhibition sport in 1900 at Paris in @.Hare and Hounds is a more sophisticated variant with victory to the successful hare. Melee, coming in mounted and foot, comes from the feature of High Medieval tournaments. Simon
Well that shows how amazing reality can be.  |
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lordroel
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Post by lordroel on Aug 9, 2021 16:41:24 GMT
In the spirit of the Tokyo Games, I give you Olympic Sports of Dark Earth: Diving Swimming Water Polo Canoeing Rowing Gymnastics Weightlifting Equestrian: Dressage, Showjumping, Eventing Sailing Athletics (including Tug of War and Armoured Run) Chariot Racing Pentathlon Triathlon Boxing Wrestling: Freestyle and Greco-Roman Fencing: Foil, Sabre, Epee and Free Sword Jousting Shooting Archery Hockey Cycling: Road and Track Basketball Polo Cricket Tennis Soccer Rugby Lacrosse Cannon shooting Gliding Martial Arts: Eastern and Western open (no set categories and similarity to Pankration) Hare and Hounds Fell Running Melee Only for Humans with no magical powers ore are there different categories. |
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simon darkshade
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Post by simon darkshade on Aug 9, 2021 16:48:45 GMT
There isn’t any restriction to humans per se, but they are generally better suited. Use of magic is strictly forbidden, as is cheating through drugs.
Steve, in the 14 years I’ve been actively creating Dark Earth, I have come to very much the same conclusion.
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Post by simon darkshade on Aug 15, 2021 2:16:32 GMT
British Army Missiles 1967/68
As a further result of early 1960s exercises and doctrinal evolution, the rocket and missile strike force of the British Army has seen considerable change. At divisional, corps and field army level, organic missile units provide for extensive reach and firepower, both atomic and conventional. There is considerable interest in the latter mission in cold war conflicts, as enemy forces lack the ability to counter ballistic missile strikes and bombardment.
Unguided Rockets
The 1950s era Red Rover unguided rocket, like the US Honest John, has been retired from active service in favour of guided missiles, which give far greater accuracy at an increased cost. There are some batteries remaining in the TA, but they are scheduled to be retired by 1970. A proposal to utilise the legacy stocks for a specialised defence system was cancelled due to cost.
Tactical Missiles
A requirement for a brigade level missile with a range of 35+ miles, high accuracy and a heavy warhead was issued in 1966. It’s intended use is for striking precise time sensitive targets, with a secondary role for counter battery operations, but has attracted some criticism that advances in gun and multiple rocket systems make such a weapon party superfluous. Nevertheless, there has been some interest in cooperation in the development of a promising French missile currently in the early stages of testing.
At divisional level, a guided weapons regiment of 24 Robin Hood ballistic missiles is deployed, but this weapon is now considered to be obsolescent. It is to be replaced by a licenced version of the American MGM-52 Lance missile, with either a nuclear (1-25kt variable yield), chemical, thermobaric or conventional 500lb warhead. The range of 75 miles is considered adequate for now, but the improved variant now under development is seen as very attractive.
Short Range Ballistic Missiles
The English Electric Blue Water has proved extremely popular and effective in service as a corps general support missile. General plans are to increase the strength of GW regiments, provide them with more reloads and increase its range from 160 miles up to 250. It comes with a variable nuclear warhead of 50-250kt, conventional 1000lb, chemical or biological warhead. It has been purchased by a number of allied nations. Current deployment is one regiment of 40 per corps, with this to rise by 1970. There is some consideration of a purely conventional version for avoidance of unnecessary escalation.
At Army level, the de Havilland Black Rock has a range of 625 miles and a 1 Mt/2500lb/chemical warhead. It provides general support, theatre strike and long range counterstrike capacity. One specific purpose is the countering of Soviet weapons in Eastern Europe that threaten to upset the strategic balance in Europe. It is also in the process of being deployed in the Far East and Australia as part of the deterrence of Indonesia. India has an order for 200 conventional missiles. Current deployment is 100 with BAOR, 56 with UKLF and 36 in the Far East/Australia
Medium Range Ballistic Missiles
The Saunders-Roe Gold Crown is an army group level weapon deploying in Germany. It has a range of 1250 miles with a role of striking airfields, bridges, railyards, troop concentrations and missile bases. It would seem to be partly superfluous to cursory examination, but is also intended for a role in the Middle East, Africa and India. It carries a 2.5 Mt warhead, but there are plans for conventional versions with a specialised 4000lb warhead, a cluster warhead or a thermobaric version. A total of 80 Missiles are currently deployed, with a further 40 on order and options for additional procurement.
The Hawker-Siddeley White Knight is the Army’s longest range missile, carrying a 5 Mt warhead out to a range of 2500 miles. It’s role is to counter Soviet and Chinese MRBMs in Europe and Asia; some also say that at the same time, one of its major purposes is to ensure that the RAF does not have complete control of the nuclear theatre role.
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stevep
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Post by stevep on Aug 15, 2021 9:55:42 GMT
British Army Missiles 1967/68 As a further result of early 1960s exercises and doctrinal evolution, the rocket and missile strike force of the British Army has seen considerable change. At divisional, corps and field army level, organic missile units provide for extensive reach and firepower, both atomic and conventional. There is considerable interest in the latter mission in cold war conflicts, as enemy forces lack the ability to counter ballistic missile strikes and bombardment. Unguided Rockets The 1950s era Red Rover unguided rocket, like the US Honest John, has been retired from active service in favour of guided missiles, which give far greater accuracy at an increased cost. There are some batteries remaining in the TA, but they are scheduled to be retired by 1970. A proposal to utilise the legacy stocks for a specialised defence system was cancelled due to cost. Tactical Missiles A requirement for a brigade level missile with a range of 35+ miles, high accuracy and a heavy warhead was issued in 1966. It’s intended use is for striking precise time sensitive targets, with a secondary role for counter battery operations, but has attracted some criticism that advances in gun and multiple rocket systems make such a weapon party superfluous. Nevertheless, there has been some interest in cooperation in the development of a promising French missile currently in the early stages of testing. At divisional level, a guided weapons regiment of 24 Robin Hood ballistic missiles is deployed, but this weapon is now considered to be obsolescent. It is to be replaced by a licenced version of the American MGM-52 Lance missile, with either a nuclear (1-25kt variable yield), chemical, thermobaric or conventional 500lb warhead. The range of 75 miles is considered adequate for now, but the improved variant now under development is seen as very attractive. Short Range Ballistic Missiles The English Electric Blue Water has proved extremely popular and effective in service as a corps general support missile. General plans are to increase the strength of GW regiments, provide them with more reloads and increase its range from 160 miles up to 250. It comes with a variable nuclear warhead of 50-250kt, conventional 1000lb, chemical or biological warhead. It has been purchased by a number of allied nations. Current deployment is one regiment of 40 per corps, with this to rise by 1970. There is some consideration of a purely conventional version for avoidance of unnecessary escalation. At Army level, the de Havilland Black Rock has a range of 625 miles and a 1 Mt/2500lb/chemical warhead. It provides general support, theatre strike and long range counterstrike capacity. One specific purpose is the countering of Soviet weapons in Eastern Europe that threaten to upset the strategic balance in Europe. It is also in the process of being deployed in the Far East and Australia as part of the deterrence of Indonesia. India has an order for 200 conventional missiles. Current deployment is 100 with BAOR, 56 with UKLF and 36 in the Far East/Australia Medium Range Ballistic Missiles The Saunders-Roe Gold Crown is an army group level weapon deploying in Germany. It has a range of 1250 miles with a role of striking airfields, bridges, railyards, troop concentrations and missile bases. It would seem to be partly superfluous to cursory examination, but is also intended for a role in the Middle East, Africa and India. It carries a 2.5 Mt warhead, but there are plans for conventional versions with a specialised 4000lb warhead, a cluster warhead or a thermobaric version. A total of 80 Missiles are currently deployed, with a further 40 on order and options for additional procurement. The Hawker-Siddeley White Knight is the Army’s longest range missile, carrying a 5 Mt warhead out to a range of 2500 miles. It’s role is to counter Soviet and Chinese MRBMs in Europe and Asia; some also say that at the same time, one of its major purposes is to ensure that the RAF does not have complete control of the nuclear theatre role.
Impressive array of capacities. Also a good awareness that Europe isn't the only region that matters to Britain here.
Love that last line. Traditional inter-service rivalry you can always rely on.
One thought that occurred. With Britain and presumably France having substantial theatre nukes based in west/central Europe as well as the US does NATO have much in the way of agreed procedures on no 1st use? Suspect all three powers - as well as Germany and A-H - have fears about being drawn into a nuclear holocaust because one of their other allies get twitchy fingers or lose control at a local level.
Steve
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simon darkshade
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Post by simon darkshade on Aug 15, 2021 13:14:19 GMT
Steve,
It is very much driven by what you refer to here - having at least four other theatres beyond Europe.
Interservice rivalry is just as pronounced in larger forces as in the smaller ones.
Regarding not opening fire without notifying the others, there is a general understanding and protocol between the USA, Britain and France regarding theatre weapons of all sorts. Matters haven't got to the stage of imminent threat of war to test this since 1956, when things came very close to pressing the button; indeed, it was only avoided by the preemptive British nuclear strike on Plesetsk and the death of Stalin.
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