stevep
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Post by stevep on Aug 22, 2020 13:48:54 GMT
I would agree with that. Stefano's pages on the flight deck cruiser Show design H1, with a 216 ft flight deck, might be the least plausible of all....
Regards,
Think i starting to think why anybody would design a Flying-Deck Cruiser, not a good idea.
Would agree. Its neither fish nor fowl. You have a ship that is both a poor carrier and a poor surface ship. Also the idea of any action in which the main guns are used - unless possibly shore bombardment against a coastline which can't fire back - means its too close to any surface opponent to make it very vulnerable.
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1bigrich
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Post by 1bigrich on Aug 22, 2020 18:02:45 GMT
Also firing those main guns and doing flight operations at the same time is not a good idea i think.
The first time Lexington fired her guns to port, she crushed the ribs of a Northrop torpedo bomber on her deck.
Regards,
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lordroel
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Post by lordroel on Aug 22, 2020 18:33:09 GMT
Also firing those main guns and doing flight operations at the same time is not a good idea i think. The first time Lexington fired her guns to port, she crushed the ribs of a Northrop torpedo bomber on her deck. Regards,
These things, they belong on a destroyer ore cruiser, not a carrier.  |
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stevep
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Post by stevep on Aug 23, 2020 10:08:39 GMT
The first time Lexington fired her guns to port, she crushed the ribs of a Northrop torpedo bomber on her deck. Regards,
These things, they belong on a destroyer ore cruiser, not a carrier.
Only on a cruiser or larger. But definitely not on a carrier. If something able to fire back gets into range of 8" guns the carrier is in for a bad time.  |
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lordroel
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Post by lordroel on Aug 23, 2020 17:17:39 GMT
These things, they belong on a destroyer ore cruiser, not a carrier. Only on a cruiser or larger. But definitely not on a carrier. If something able to fire back gets into range of 8" guns the carrier is in for a bad time. So those guns are for self defense up to a enemy destroyer. Are these the main guns that are shown on the designs: |
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stevep
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Post by stevep on Aug 24, 2020 14:55:11 GMT
Only on a cruiser or larger. But definitely not on a carrier. If something able to fire back gets into range of 8" guns the carrier is in for a bad time. So those guns are for self defense up to a enemy destroyer. Are these the main guns that are shown on the designs:
No the Lexington and Saratoga actually had 4 twin 8" turrets. Which is while I mentioned cruisers earlier as i think the largest gun a destroyer ever mounted was 6", considerably smaller and that was a pretty overloaded design.
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lordroel
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Post by lordroel on Aug 24, 2020 15:03:30 GMT
So those guns are for self defense up to a enemy destroyer. Are these the main guns that are shown on the designs: No the Lexington and Saratoga actually had 4 twin 8" turrets. Which is while I mentioned cruisers earlier as i think the largest gun a destroyer ever mounted was 6", considerably smaller and that was a pretty overloaded design. A i was referring to the first post on the first page of the thread. |
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stevep
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Post by stevep on Aug 24, 2020 17:40:04 GMT
No the Lexington and Saratoga actually had 4 twin 8" turrets. Which is while I mentioned cruisers earlier as i think the largest gun a destroyer ever mounted was 6", considerably smaller and that was a pretty overloaded design. A i was referring to the first post on the first page of the thread.
OK sorry. Misunderstood.
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lordroel
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Post by lordroel on Aug 24, 2020 18:40:50 GMT
A i was referring to the first post on the first page of the thread. OK sorry. Misunderstood.
I would see use for the Flying-Deck Cruiser using Vought O2U Corsair biplane scout and observation aircraft as spotter aircraft, do we know if they had radio onboard planes in 1930. |
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stevep
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Post by stevep on Aug 25, 2020 10:48:32 GMT
I would see use for the Flying-Deck Cruiser using Vought O2U Corsair biplane scout and observation aircraft as spotter aircraft, do we know if they had radio onboard planes in 1930.
I know they have radio for broadcasting in WWI, although in the early days they were so heavy and cumbersome it limited what they could do. IIRC there was problems with hunting down was it the Emden in that E Africa river as the planes struggled and have heard similar stories from attempt to give guidance to naval bombardment at Gallipoli.
In terms of a/c receiving radios I read a bit a long while ago that, at least for single seater fighters, it was just about coming in by the Battle of Britain. Think there were problems getting wavelengths suitable for the small receivers that such a/c could carry. If accurate that would mean such a/c in ~1930 could send messages to ships but not receive radio messages themselves.
Steve
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lordroel
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Post by lordroel on Aug 25, 2020 14:12:10 GMT
I would see use for the Flying-Deck Cruiser using Vought O2U Corsair biplane scout and observation aircraft as spotter aircraft, do we know if they had radio onboard planes in 1930. I know they have radio for broadcasting in WWI, although in the early days they were so heavy and cumbersome it limited what they could do. IIRC there was problems with hunting down was it the Emden in that E Africa river as the planes struggled and have heard similar stories from attempt to give guidance to naval bombardment at Gallipoli.
In terms of a/c receiving radios I read a bit a long while ago that, at least for single seater fighters, it was just about coming in by the Battle of Britain. Think there were problems getting wavelengths suitable for the small receivers that such a/c could carry. If accurate that would mean such a/c in ~1930 could send messages to ships but not receive radio messages themselves. Steve
Seems you are right, according to Wikipedia: In 1912 the Royal Flying Corps had begun experimenting with "wireless telegraphy" in aircraft. Lieutenant B.T James was a leading pioneer of wireless (radio) in aircraft. In the spring 1913, he had begun to experiment with radios in a B.E.2a. James brought the science of wireless in aircraft to a high state of efficiency before he was shot down and killed by anti-aircraft fire on 13 July 1915.
In April 1915 Captain J.M. Furnival was the first person to hear a voice from the ground when Major Prince said “If you can hear me now it will be the first time speech has ever been communicated to an aeroplane in flight.” In June 1915 the world's first air-to-ground voice transmission took place at Brooklands (England) over about 20miles (ground-to-air was initially by morse but it is believed two-way voice communications was being achieved by July 1915). In early 1916 the Marconi Company (England) started production of air-to-ground radio transmitters/receivers which were used in the war over France.
In 1917 AT&T invented the first American air-to-ground radio transmitter. They tested this device at Langley Field in Virginia and found it was a viable technology. In May 1917, General George Squier of the U.S. Army Signal Corps contacted AT&T to develop an air-to-ground radio with a range of 2,000 yards. By July 4 of that same year AT&T technicians achieved two-way communication between pilots and ground personnel. This allowed ground personnel to communicate directly with pilots using their voice instead of morse code. Though few of these devices saw service in the war, they proved this was a viable and valuable technology worthy of refinement and advancement therefore further models had this technology installed into Biplanes on airstrips in France 1919.
Following World War I new technology was developed to increase the range and performance of the radios being used to communicate with planes in the air. It was not until 1930 however that airborne radios were reliable enough and had enough power to make them viable to be standard in all planes. Until this point only planes designated for scout missions required radios. The operating distance of radios increased much slower than the distance planes were able to travel. This resulted in planes messages having to bounce from airfield to airfield in order to get to its intended recipient. As the speed of planes increased this resulted in a plane reaching its destination before the message that it was on its way arrived at the airfield. |
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stevep
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Post by stevep on Aug 25, 2020 14:14:31 GMT
I know they have radio for broadcasting in WWI, although in the early days they were so heavy and cumbersome it limited what they could do. IIRC there was problems with hunting down was it the Emden in that E Africa river as the planes struggled and have heard similar stories from attempt to give guidance to naval bombardment at Gallipoli.
In terms of a/c receiving radios I read a bit a long while ago that, at least for single seater fighters, it was just about coming in by the Battle of Britain. Think there were problems getting wavelengths suitable for the small receivers that such a/c could carry. If accurate that would mean such a/c in ~1930 could send messages to ships but not receive radio messages themselves. Steve
Seems you are right, according to Wikipedia: In 1912 the Royal Flying Corps had begun experimenting with "wireless telegraphy" in aircraft. Lieutenant B.T James was a leading pioneer of wireless (radio) in aircraft. In the spring 1913, he had begun to experiment with radios in a B.E.2a. James brought the science of wireless in aircraft to a high state of efficiency before he was shot down and killed by anti-aircraft fire on 13 July 1915.
In April 1915 Captain J.M. Furnival was the first person to hear a voice from the ground when Major Prince said “If you can hear me now it will be the first time speech has ever been communicated to an aeroplane in flight.” In June 1915 the world's first air-to-ground voice transmission took place at Brooklands (England) over about 20miles (ground-to-air was initially by morse but it is believed two-way voice communications was being achieved by July 1915). In early 1916 the Marconi Company (England) started production of air-to-ground radio transmitters/receivers which were used in the war over France.
In 1917 AT&T invented the first American air-to-ground radio transmitter. They tested this device at Langley Field in Virginia and found it was a viable technology. In May 1917, General George Squier of the U.S. Army Signal Corps contacted AT&T to develop an air-to-ground radio with a range of 2,000 yards. By July 4 of that same year AT&T technicians achieved two-way communication between pilots and ground personnel. This allowed ground personnel to communicate directly with pilots using their voice instead of morse code. Though few of these devices saw service in the war, they proved this was a viable and valuable technology worthy of refinement and advancement therefore further models had this technology installed into Biplanes on airstrips in France 1919.
Following World War I new technology was developed to increase the range and performance of the radios being used to communicate with planes in the air. It was not until 1930 however that airborne radios were reliable enough and had enough power to make them viable to be standard in all planes. Until this point only planes designated for scout missions required radios. The operating distance of radios increased much slower than the distance planes were able to travel. This resulted in planes messages having to bounce from airfield to airfield in order to get to its intended recipient. As the speed of planes increased this resulted in a plane reaching its destination before the message that it was on its way arrived at the airfield.
Thanks. Good summary. Sounds like it was possible to get ground to air messages faster than I thought. Possibly either my info/memory is wrong or possibly I was thinking of air to air transmissions.
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lordroel
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Post by lordroel on Aug 25, 2020 14:16:45 GMT
Seems you are right, according to Wikipedia: In 1912 the Royal Flying Corps had begun experimenting with "wireless telegraphy" in aircraft. Lieutenant B.T James was a leading pioneer of wireless (radio) in aircraft. In the spring 1913, he had begun to experiment with radios in a B.E.2a. James brought the science of wireless in aircraft to a high state of efficiency before he was shot down and killed by anti-aircraft fire on 13 July 1915.
In April 1915 Captain J.M. Furnival was the first person to hear a voice from the ground when Major Prince said “If you can hear me now it will be the first time speech has ever been communicated to an aeroplane in flight.” In June 1915 the world's first air-to-ground voice transmission took place at Brooklands (England) over about 20miles (ground-to-air was initially by morse but it is believed two-way voice communications was being achieved by July 1915). In early 1916 the Marconi Company (England) started production of air-to-ground radio transmitters/receivers which were used in the war over France.
In 1917 AT&T invented the first American air-to-ground radio transmitter. They tested this device at Langley Field in Virginia and found it was a viable technology. In May 1917, General George Squier of the U.S. Army Signal Corps contacted AT&T to develop an air-to-ground radio with a range of 2,000 yards. By July 4 of that same year AT&T technicians achieved two-way communication between pilots and ground personnel. This allowed ground personnel to communicate directly with pilots using their voice instead of morse code. Though few of these devices saw service in the war, they proved this was a viable and valuable technology worthy of refinement and advancement therefore further models had this technology installed into Biplanes on airstrips in France 1919.
Following World War I new technology was developed to increase the range and performance of the radios being used to communicate with planes in the air. It was not until 1930 however that airborne radios were reliable enough and had enough power to make them viable to be standard in all planes. Until this point only planes designated for scout missions required radios. The operating distance of radios increased much slower than the distance planes were able to travel. This resulted in planes messages having to bounce from airfield to airfield in order to get to its intended recipient. As the speed of planes increased this resulted in a plane reaching its destination before the message that it was on its way arrived at the airfield. Thanks. Good summary. Sounds like it was possible to get ground to air messages faster than I thought. Possibly either my info/memory is wrong or possibly I was thinking of air to air transmissions. So do you also agrea that scout planes is the best choice for the Flying-Deck Cruiser design as they can not carry much in plane numbers. |
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stevep
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Post by stevep on Aug 25, 2020 15:18:48 GMT
Thanks. Good summary. Sounds like it was possible to get ground to air messages faster than I thought. Possibly either my info/memory is wrong or possibly I was thinking of air to air transmissions. So do you also agrea that scout planes is the best choice for the Flying-Deck Cruiser design as they can not carry much in plane numbers.
It would depend on the circumstances but probably in most cases I suspect. Possibly a few strike a/c if they were on any role hunting raiders say but scouting for the cruiser and any other ships its operating with. Another alternative if they think they may come under air attack would be some fighters but even a number of such cruisers wouldn't really have enough capacity to provide realistic air cover against either land based air or a fleet carrier.
It might be that using such a cruiser in a task force, away from any carrier units or air threat, could mean less other cruisers and larger units need to carry a/c and associated facilities, such as catapults, deck hangers etc themselves, saving space and tonnage that could be used elsewhere. However of course this makes those units dependent on having either a FDC or a full CV to supply scouting resources.
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