stevep
Fleet admiral
Posts: 24,843 
Likes: 13,229
|
Post by stevep on Aug 6, 2020 18:27:29 GMT
If it isn't decided its not a constructive loss, i.e. too damaged to be worth repairing and completing. While it sounds like an accident I wonder if there will be suspicion of sabotage?
Seems to me it is just a worker who let a burning cigarette without knowing it, we have seen it a couple of weeks ago with the USS Bonhomme Richard fire how something like that can happen. 
I didn't say it was sabotage. I said some people might suggest it was sabotage, especially with increased cold war tension. A subtle difference.  |
|
lordroel
Administrator
Posts: 68,007
Likes: 49,410
|
Post by lordroel on Aug 6, 2020 18:29:41 GMT
Seems to me it is just a worker who let a burning cigarette without knowing it, we have seen it a couple of weeks ago with the USS Bonhomme Richard fire how something like that can happen. I didn't say it was sabotage. I said some people might suggest it was sabotage, especially with increased cold war tension. A subtle difference. Well there will always be people who think it is a Soviet spy ore saboteur who did this, until it is shown that somebody was just stupid. |
|
ssgtc
Sub-lieutenant
Posts: 496
Likes: 740
|
Post by ssgtc on Aug 7, 2020 12:32:12 GMT
May 12, 1957
Washington, DC, USA
Admiral Aleigh Burke, the Chief of Naval Operations sighed heavily. The fire in Brooklyn on the Independence had thrown a huge wrench into the Navy's plans. The initial damage reports were sitting on his desk and they weren't good. The best case estimate was a two year delay in completing the ship. The worst case was that she was a total constructive loss. They wouldn't know which it would end up being for at least another month. This was just one more problem pilled on top of all the other mundane issues he dealt with on a daily basis.
No one seemed to be on the same page as anyone else anymore. Congress wanted the Navy to reduce expenditures, his Fleet Commanders wanted more money for training, his Type Commanders wanted more new ships built and more older ones overhauled. In February he had finally worked out a deal where the planned overhaul of Lake Champlain was cancelled and instead the money would be used for training while Congress agreed not to delay, or outright cancel, awarding the contract for Enterprise, whose projected costs were continuing to climb. In his opinion, trading an Essex class for a new nuclear powered supercarrier was more than fair.
But now, with Independence delayed by at least two years he was having to juggle everything again. He needed the extra deck that Indy would have given him. His Fleet Commanders would howl about their extra training funds disappearing, but he really didn't have a choice. Lake Champlain's SCB-125A refit was back on. He'd have to go back to the drawing board to find a way to keep Congress from killing Enterprise before she could even be born. Calling for his aides to get in his office, he began rifling through their options.
|
|
ssgtc
Sub-lieutenant
Posts: 496
Likes: 740
|
Post by ssgtc on Aug 7, 2020 12:32:50 GMT
June 3, 1957
Moscow, Russian Soviet Socialist Republic
A formal, wide ranging treaty is reached between Indonesia and the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics whereby the USSR agrees to provide technical assistance and information on oil exploration and production as well as arms to aid Indonesia in modernizing their economy and armed forces. In return, the USSR will receive preferential status for trade goods such as oil, natural gas, tin, copper and rubber. The groundwork for this treaty was laid during the May 1st meeting between Indonesian President Sukarno and the Soviet Ambassador to Indonesia, D.A. Zhukov. In return for these concessions to the Soviet Union, the USSR had agreed to support Indonesia diplomatically and militarily. Their use of their Security Council Veto to kill the resolution against Indonesia the previous month had been a "good faith" gesture to seal the deal.
Due to the ongoing transition in Indonesia from the "Liberal Democracy" system to President Sukarno's "Guided Democracy" system, President Sukarno himself is not in attendance and the agreement is signed by his Foreign Minister, Subandrio. An official State Visit by President Sukarno is proposed by Soviet Foreign Minster Andrei Gromyko to take place later in the year. Mr Subandrio also suggests a return visit to Indonesia by Premier Bulganin.
The rapid negotiations for the new treaty take some in the West by surprise, though both the American and British Intelligence services had predicted Indonesia's move further into the Soviet camp more than a month earlier. In the halls of the United States Department of State and the Central Intelligence Agency, analysts and regional experts are hurriedly consulted and called into meetings to provide suggestions on moving Indonesia out of the Soviet Camp.
|
|
ssgtc
Sub-lieutenant
Posts: 496
Likes: 740
|
Post by ssgtc on Aug 7, 2020 12:33:30 GMT
June 4, 1957
Beijing, People's Republic of China
A treaty similar to the one signed with the USSR, though far less comprehensive in scope, is signed between Indonesia and the People Republic of China. This treaty is almost entirely military in nature. In return for supplying advanced combat aircraft, the PRC will receive raw materials as payment in kind. Once the aircraft are paid in full, Indonesia agrees to grant China the same preferential trade status as the USSR.
While the Ambassador signed the formal treaty, the Indonesian Military Attache was signing the contract with the Shenyang Aircraft Corporation for the purchase of sixty Shenyang F-5 day fighters. The F-5 was a license produced copy of the Soviet MiG-17F made in Shenyang, China. The fighter is a highly maneuverable and faster development of the earlier MiG-15. Known as the Fresco in the West, the F-5 is planned to be the backbone of the Indonesian Air Force for years to come. The first F-5 will be delivered to Indonesia in August.
|
|
ssgtc
Sub-lieutenant
Posts: 496
Likes: 740
|
Post by ssgtc on Aug 7, 2020 12:34:00 GMT
June 4, 1957
Prague, Czechoslovakia
The Indonesian Ambassador signs a contract with the Government of Czechoslovakia for the purchase of twenty-four MiG-15UTI jet trainers and their associated spare parts. Deliveries are to begin by the end of July. The purchase of MiG-15s draws heavily on Indonesian hard currency reserves, but the drain is expected to only be temporary as the sale of oil and raw materials to the Soviet Bloc will provide a steady stream of hard currency for the treasury.
|
|
lordroel
Administrator
Posts: 68,007
Likes: 49,410
|
Post by lordroel on Aug 7, 2020 12:38:52 GMT
June 4, 1957 Prague, Czechoslovakia The Indonesian Ambassador signs a contract with the Government of Czechoslovakia for the purchase of twenty-four MiG-15UTI jet trainers and their associated spare parts. Deliveries are to begin by the end of July. The purchase of MiG-15s draws heavily on Indonesian hard currency reserves, but the drain is expected to only be temporary as the sale of oil and raw materials to the Soviet Bloc will provide a steady stream of hard currency for the treasury. Are these from Czechoslovakia stock like former Czechoslovak Air Force aircraft ore newly build. |
|
ssgtc
Sub-lieutenant
Posts: 496
Likes: 740
|
Post by ssgtc on Aug 7, 2020 12:44:24 GMT
They are new build aircraft. And technically, they're CS-102s as they're license built examples.
|
|
lordroel
Administrator
Posts: 68,007
Likes: 49,410
|
Post by lordroel on Aug 7, 2020 12:50:41 GMT
June 4, 1957 While the Ambassador signed the formal treaty, the Indonesian Military Attache was signing the contract with the Shenyang Aircraft Corporation for the purchase of sixty Shenyang F-5 day fighters. The F-5 was a license produced copy of the Soviet MiG-17F made in Shenyang, China. The fighter is a highly maneuverable and faster development of the earlier MiG-15. Known as the Fresco in the West, the F-5 is planned to be the backbone of the Indonesian Air Force for years to come. The first F-5 will be delivered to Indonesia in August. So instead of the Soviet build Mig-17F, Indonesia buys the Chinese copy of it, is it because they are cheaper than their Soviet version. |
|
archibald
Ensign
The PRC was standing on the edge of an abyss. And Mao said "let's make a Great Leap Forward"
Posts: 359
Likes: 364
|
Post by archibald on Aug 7, 2020 13:44:42 GMT
Nice to see this TL here !
|
|
ssgtc
Sub-lieutenant
Posts: 496
Likes: 740
|
Post by ssgtc on Aug 7, 2020 13:48:43 GMT
June 4, 1957 While the Ambassador signed the formal treaty, the Indonesian Military Attache was signing the contract with the Shenyang Aircraft Corporation for the purchase of sixty Shenyang F-5 day fighters. The F-5 was a license produced copy of the Soviet MiG-17F made in Shenyang, China. The fighter is a highly maneuverable and faster development of the earlier MiG-15. Known as the Fresco in the West, the F-5 is planned to be the backbone of the Indonesian Air Force for years to come. The first F-5 will be delivered to Indonesia in August. So instead of the Soviet build Mig-17F, Indonesia buys the Chinese copy of it, is it because they are cheaper than their Soviet version. They've got a few reasons. They are slightly cheaper, China is willing to accept payment "in kind" (oil and resources for aircraft which saves a lot of hard currency), and Indonesia isn't tied solely to the USSR for equipment. |
|
lordroel
Administrator
Posts: 68,007
Likes: 49,410
|
Post by lordroel on Aug 7, 2020 13:51:06 GMT
So instead of the Soviet build Mig-17F, Indonesia buys the Chinese copy of it, is it because they are cheaper than their Soviet version. They've got a few reasons. They are slightly cheaper, China is willing to accept payment "in kind" (oil and resources for aircraft which saves a lot of hard currency), and Indonesia isn't tied solely to the USSR for equipment. So it seems, next would be nice to see a couple of Tupolev Tu-4s ore Tupolev Tu-16s. |
|
archibald
Ensign
The PRC was standing on the edge of an abyss. And Mao said "let's make a Great Leap Forward"
Posts: 359
Likes: 364
|
Post by archibald on Aug 7, 2020 15:43:31 GMT
OTL Indonesia got Tu-16 and this (rightly) made the Australians pretty nervous...
|
|
archibald
Ensign
The PRC was standing on the edge of an abyss. And Mao said "let's make a Great Leap Forward"
Posts: 359
Likes: 364
|
Post by archibald on Aug 7, 2020 17:17:50 GMT
|
|
ssgtc
Sub-lieutenant
Posts: 496
Likes: 740
|
Post by ssgtc on Aug 7, 2020 17:19:26 GMT
Say what the will about the Soviets, they built some damn good looking aircraft |
|
