ssgtc
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Post by ssgtc on Nov 1, 2020 22:40:14 GMT
June 3, 1958
Canberra, Australian Capital Territory, Australia
The Royal Australian Navy Fleet Air Arm reviews the list of proposed fighters being considered by the Air Force. They had themselves just completed a review of their fighter force and found it sorely lacking. The Hawker Sea Hawks that flew off of Melbourne were almost completely outclassed by Indonesia's fighters along with threats further afield such as the fighters being fielded by North Korea and North Vietnam. If Australia was to maintain their position as a regional power, they would need to upgrade their aircraft.
Of the offered aircraft, only the American offerings from Vought, Grumman and McDonnell were carrier capable. Unfortunately, the steam catapults on Melbourne were incapable of launching aircraft heavier than the Grumman F11F-1F Tiger. And its ability to even safely and consistently launch that aircraft was marginal, particularly in hot and humid weather. And of the aircraft that were suitable for carrier operations, the Tiger was by far the least capable aircraft. It lacked anything more than a gun ranging radar and short range sidewinder missiles. The other two designs under consideration were both armed with long range radar guided missiles and were both significantly faster and longer ranged.
The Navy was increasingly coming to the conclusion that they had erred in buying Melbourne from the United Kingdom. While being able to operate a modern angled deck carrier gave Australia enormous prestige, the limitations of the British Light Fleet carrier were quickly becoming more and more apparent. The Royal Australian Navy needed a new carrier.
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lordroel
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Post by lordroel on Nov 2, 2020 3:45:38 GMT
May 12, 1958
Jakarta, Java, IndonesiaAllen Pope had been kept secured in Cipinang Prison since his trial and conviction in November. Six months in this flea infested hellhole was enough to drive anyone mad. The Embassy had sent over a liaison a few times to ensure that he wasn't being mistreated, but as a whole, everyone seemed to have forgotten about him. The sun was high in the sky judging by the sticky heat in his cell when the guards opened the door and escorted him out into the yard. When he entered the yard, his steps faltered and his eyes grew wide at what he saw. The guards beside him grabbed his arms and began dragging him toward the stake that was centered in the yard. In front of the single pole was a squad of Indonesian Army personnel with a Priest standing with them. Allen was in shock. His hands were tied behind his back and he was tied to the stake. The diplomats had promised him that they were trying to free him. That was the only though that was going through his head as he the blindfold went on and the orders were shouted and the rifles cracked. But they had promised... Well that is different than OTL but i excepted that to happen as relations with Indonesia ans the United States are colder than they where in OTL. |
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ssgtc
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Post by ssgtc on Nov 2, 2020 14:40:59 GMT
May 12, 1958
Jakarta, Java, IndonesiaAllen Pope had been kept secured in Cipinang Prison since his trial and conviction in November. Six months in this flea infested hellhole was enough to drive anyone mad. The Embassy had sent over a liaison a few times to ensure that he wasn't being mistreated, but as a whole, everyone seemed to have forgotten about him. The sun was high in the sky judging by the sticky heat in his cell when the guards opened the door and escorted him out into the yard. When he entered the yard, his steps faltered and his eyes grew wide at what he saw. The guards beside him grabbed his arms and began dragging him toward the stake that was centered in the yard. In front of the single pole was a squad of Indonesian Army personnel with a Priest standing with them. Allen was in shock. His hands were tied behind his back and he was tied to the stake. The diplomats had promised him that they were trying to free him. That was the only though that was going through his head as he the blindfold went on and the orders were shouted and the rifles cracked. But they had promised... Well that is different than OTL but i excepted that to happen as relations with Indonesia ans the United States are colder than they where in OTL. Exactly. Sukarno isn't as interested in maintaining relations with the US as he was in OTL. He was willing to turn a blind eye before, now he's not. And the general population is also increasingly turning against the US. Though that's not to say that the USSR or the Communists are popular. |
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Post by lordroel on Nov 2, 2020 15:51:08 GMT
June 3, 1958
Canberra, Australian Capital Territory, Australia
The Royal Australian Navy Fleet Air Arm reviews the list of proposed fighters being considered by the Air Force. They had themselves just completed a review of their fighter force and found it sorely lacking. The Hawker Sea Hawks that flew off of Melbourne were almost completely outclassed by Indonesia's fighters along with threats further afield such as the fighters being fielded by North Korea and North Vietnam. If Australia was to maintain their position as a regional power, they would need to upgrade their aircraft. Of the offered aircraft, only the American offerings from Vought, Grumman and McDonnell were carrier capable. Unfortunately, the steam catapults on Melbourne were incapable of launching aircraft heavier than the Grumman F11F-1F Tiger. And its ability to even safely and consistently launch that aircraft was marginal, particularly in hot and humid weather. And of the aircraft that were suitable for carrier operations, the Tiger was by far the least capable aircraft. It lacked anything more than a gun ranging radar and short range sidewinder missiles. The other two designs under consideration were both armed with long range radar guided missiles and were both significantly faster and longer ranged. The Navy was increasingly coming to the conclusion that they had erred in buying Melbourne from the United Kingdom. While being able to operate a modern angled deck carrier gave Australia enormous prestige, the limitations of the British Light Fleet carrier were quickly becoming more and more apparent. The Royal Australian Navy needed a new carrier. A Essex with F-4 Phantoms would be a good choice for the RAN Fleet Air Arm like here below.  |
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ssgtc
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Post by ssgtc on Nov 2, 2020 20:38:55 GMT
June 3, 1958
Canberra, Australian Capital Territory, Australia
The Royal Australian Navy Fleet Air Arm reviews the list of proposed fighters being considered by the Air Force. They had themselves just completed a review of their fighter force and found it sorely lacking. The Hawker Sea Hawks that flew off of Melbourne were almost completely outclassed by Indonesia's fighters along with threats further afield such as the fighters being fielded by North Korea and North Vietnam. If Australia was to maintain their position as a regional power, they would need to upgrade their aircraft. Of the offered aircraft, only the American offerings from Vought, Grumman and McDonnell were carrier capable. Unfortunately, the steam catapults on Melbourne were incapable of launching aircraft heavier than the Grumman F11F-1F Tiger. And its ability to even safely and consistently launch that aircraft was marginal, particularly in hot and humid weather. And of the aircraft that were suitable for carrier operations, the Tiger was by far the least capable aircraft. It lacked anything more than a gun ranging radar and short range sidewinder missiles. The other two designs under consideration were both armed with long range radar guided missiles and were both significantly faster and longer ranged. The Navy was increasingly coming to the conclusion that they had erred in buying Melbourne from the United Kingdom. While being able to operate a modern angled deck carrier gave Australia enormous prestige, the limitations of the British Light Fleet carrier were quickly becoming more and more apparent. The Royal Australian Navy needed a new carrier. A Essex with F-4 Phantoms would be a good choice for the RAN Fleet Air Arm like here below. It will be a consideration when the time comes to get down to hard numbers |
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Post by lordroel on Nov 4, 2020 18:30:02 GMT
A Essex with F-4 Phantoms would be a good choice for the RAN Fleet Air Arm like here below. It will be a consideration when the time comes to get down to hard numbers So how much would fit on a Essex, just a hypothetical question i asking. |
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ssgtc
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Post by ssgtc on Nov 5, 2020 0:09:35 GMT
It will be a consideration when the time comes to get down to hard numbers So how much would fit on a Essex, just a hypothetical question i asking. You could fit an air wing of 24xF-4s, 24xA-7s, 4xE-1/E-2s, 2xEA-7s, 4xKA-7s and 4xSH-3s. That comes out to 94.6 deck spots out of 106 total available spots. That is a crowded carrier, but it is also an extraordinarily powerful one. If you're worried about space, you can reduce the Phantom squadrons to 10 birds each and that puts you just over 87 spots. Swap the 24 Phantoms for 24 Crusaders and you're all the way down to 81.44 spots. That frees up enough space for you to add a third Corsair squadron and bring you to 95.72 spots. Or you can add another two electronic attack birds, 4 photo recon Crusaders and a COD or two. That would bring you to 98.3 spots. |
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Post by lordroel on Nov 5, 2020 4:00:14 GMT
So how much would fit on a Essex, just a hypothetical question i asking. You could fit an air wing of 24xF-4s, 24xA-7s, 4xE-1/E-2s, 2xEA-7s, 4xKA-7s and 4xSH-3s. That comes out to 94.6 deck spots out of 106 total available spots. That is a crowded carrier, but it is also an extraordinarily powerful one. If you're worried about space, you can reduce the Phantom squadrons to 10 birds each and that puts you just over 87 spots. That would be a nice orbat for the RAN. |
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ssgtc
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Post by ssgtc on Nov 5, 2020 13:23:37 GMT
You could fit an air wing of 24xF-4s, 24xA-7s, 4xE-1/E-2s, 2xEA-7s, 4xKA-7s and 4xSH-3s. That comes out to 94.6 deck spots out of 106 total available spots. That is a crowded carrier, but it is also an extraordinarily powerful one. If you're worried about space, you can reduce the Phantom squadrons to 10 birds each and that puts you just over 87 spots. That would be a nice orbat for the RAN. It would be a very powerful carrier. But the Phantom was a VERY thirsty bird. The Essex class had limited fuel and ammo storage, so operating Phantoms comes with a significant penalty in the number of sorties the carrier can generate before needing to UNREP. |
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Post by lordroel on Nov 5, 2020 14:27:25 GMT
That would be a nice orbat for the RAN. It would be a very powerful carrier. But the Phantom was a VERY thirsty bird. The Essex class had limited fuel and ammo storage, so operating Phantoms comes with a significant penalty in the number of sorties the carrier can generate before needing to UNREP. But a Essex class is the only carrier that Australia can get at the moment ore am i wrong. |
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ssgtc
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Post by ssgtc on Nov 5, 2020 15:07:29 GMT
It would be a very powerful carrier. But the Phantom was a VERY thirsty bird. The Essex class had limited fuel and ammo storage, so operating Phantoms comes with a significant penalty in the number of sorties the carrier can generate before needing to UNREP. But a Essex class is the only carrier that Australia can get at the moment ore am i wrong. The Essex class could be had at this time seeing as the US has, I think, 4-5 of them in reserve. They also have the two Saipan class in the Reserve Fleet. The UK is still building Hermes. She probably isn't avaliable, but could be if it gets the RN a bigger carrier instead. The Clemenceau class are being laid down at this time and Australia could possibly build one under license. The British are also beginning to sketch out the CVA01 class if the RAN can wait 7-10 years. |
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Post by lordroel on Nov 5, 2020 15:10:32 GMT
But a Essex class is the only carrier that Australia can get at the moment ore am i wrong. The Essex class could be had at this time seeing as the US has, I think, 4-5 of them in reserve. They also have the two Saipan class in the Reserve Fleet. The UK is still building Hermes. She probably isn't avaliable, but could be if it gets the RN a bigger carrier instead. The Clemenceau class are being laid down at this time and Australia could possibly build one under license. The British are also beginning to sketch out the CVA01 class if the RAN can wait 7-10 years. Could Australia order a new carrier from the United kingdom to be build there. |
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Post by ssgtc on Nov 5, 2020 15:49:23 GMT
The Essex class could be had at this time seeing as the US has, I think, 4-5 of them in reserve. They also have the two Saipan class in the Reserve Fleet. The UK is still building Hermes. She probably isn't avaliable, but could be if it gets the RN a bigger carrier instead. The Clemenceau class are being laid down at this time and Australia could possibly build one under license. The British are also beginning to sketch out the CVA01 class if the RAN can wait 7-10 years. Could Australia order a new carrier from the United kingdom to be build there. Ordering a new carrier from the UK means CVA-01. Which is nothing more than a few doodles and rough outlines on size at this point. Should they go that route, the RAN would likely have significant design input into the ship as they would be jointly funding its development with the UK. And while that gets the RAN a carrier that's good for probably 50 years, by the time the design is finalized, it's going to be at least 1965 or more likely 1970 before she enters service. |
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Post by lordroel on Nov 5, 2020 16:13:52 GMT
Could Australia order a new carrier from the United kingdom to be build there. Ordering a new carrier from the UK means CVA-01. Which is nothing more than a few doodles and rough outlines on size at this point. Should they go that route, the RAN would likely have significant design input into the ship as they would be jointly funding its development with the UK. And while that gets the RAN a carrier that's good for probably 50 years, by the time the design is finalized, it's going to be at least 1965 or more likely 1970 before she enters service. And by that time they could get a Essex with a upgrade for a lot cheaper than a newly build carrier. |
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ssgtc
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Post by ssgtc on Nov 5, 2020 18:46:52 GMT
Ordering a new carrier from the UK means CVA-01. Which is nothing more than a few doodles and rough outlines on size at this point. Should they go that route, the RAN would likely have significant design input into the ship as they would be jointly funding its development with the UK. And while that gets the RAN a carrier that's good for probably 50 years, by the time the design is finalized, it's going to be at least 1965 or more likely 1970 before she enters service. And by that time they could get a Essex with a upgrade for a lot cheaper than a newly build carrier. Surprisingly, the SCB-27C/125A upgrade wasn't much cheaper than CVA-01. It wasn't much faster either. On average, it took 26-28 months to complete from the time the ship entered dry dock. For comparison, USS Ranger (CV-61) was laid down on August 4,1954 and commissioned just 3 years later on August 10,1957. The big drivers will be cost, time frame and expected service life. An Essex is cheaper to buy initially and probably cheaper to operate (at least if the crew numbers on Wiki are accurate for CVA-01 being 3,250 plus air wing). And they can have the carrier in service in less than 3 years from the time they order it. CVA-01 will take at least 7 years to design, build and trial before entering service and could take as many as 12 years to enter service. On the flip side, an Essex has an expected service life of about 20 years so the RAN will need a replacement around 1980, unless they SLEP the Essex to get it to about 1990/1995. CVA-01 has an expected service life of at least 35 years, getting the RAN to about 2000/2005 on their initial investment and a SLEP will get the ship to about 2020. Basically, there are a lot of moving parts that they need to figure out. And one last thing, there's also the technology angle they need to consider. Will a ship built with 1940s technology and updated with 1950s technology be survivable until 1980 when it can be replaced with the most modern carrier money can buy? Or do they buy a carrier built with 1950s/1960s technology and hope it stays relevant until the new millennium? |
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