ssgtc
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Post by ssgtc on Oct 13, 2020 17:20:08 GMT
Well, the answer is, it depends. In a vacuum, Indonesia has the better fighters. The Sea Hawk tops out at 600MPH. The MiG-15UTIs can do 688, while the MiG-17s can do 711. It's really probably going to come down to training As the RED Baron remarked. "It's not the crate. It's the MAN in the crate."
IMNSHO, that goes for the supporting techs as in Logistics always is the deciding factor in the long run.
Great story. I'm way back at 4 and enjoying it immensely.
Glad you're enjoying it!!
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oscssw
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Post by oscssw on Oct 13, 2020 17:29:48 GMT
I don't buy that claim and here is why. Many Soviet medium and high-ranking officers wanted to gain favour with the Soviet dictator Josef Stalin (well known for killing or deporting Soviet generals who failed in accomplish his wishes), and one way to do so was to inflate the score of the MiG regiments in Korea.
The Soviet pilots earn 1,500 additional rubles for every air victory they were credited with. It is quite likely that there were many false claims, just for the money.
The gun camera images of the MiG-15 were of such poor quality, that the Russian gun camera analysts decided that if a US plane appeared in a pic, then they would credit a "kill," even when they did not notice shell strikes, smoke, or an ejection.
If you add to such factors the usual over-claiming -in good faith, but over-claiming in the end- of any war, then we can understand why the Soviet 64th IAK claimed the unbelievable figure of 1,106 UN aircraft destroyed in the Korean War. (532 of them in the so called "Honcho Period," when only 142 Allied aircraft were actually downed by the Soviet MiG-15 pilots). So, I see most of those scores with a lot of skepticism, e.g: Mikhail Ponomaryev was credited with 11 kills, but when we analyze the dates of his claims, only 2 matched with admitted US losses! And he is not the only one.
Actually, the United States credits him with more kills than the Soviets did. The Soviets gave him credit for 22 kills while the USAF believes he scored 25 kills. ssgtc please provide a reference. I'd love to read the origin of that claim.
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ssgtc
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Post by ssgtc on Oct 13, 2020 17:35:58 GMT
Actually, the United States credits him with more kills than the Soviets did. The Soviets gave him credit for 22 kills while the USAF believes he scored 25 kills. ssgtc please provide a reference. I'd love to read the origin of that claim. Apologies. I got him and Yevgeny Pepelyaev crossed. He was credited with 19 kills by Russian sources and 20-23 kills by Western sources.
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ssgtc
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Post by ssgtc on Oct 15, 2020 19:58:22 GMT
February 1, 1958 Canberra, Australian Capital Territory, Australia
The process of winnowing the wheat from the chaff begins at the ministry of defense. Multiple aircraft are submitted for each specification issued. To meet the fighter specification, the United Kingdom offered the English Electric Lightning while Hawker submitted their proposed P.1121 design and Saunders-Roe their SR.177 both of which had been suspended as a result of the Defense White Paper. France offered a modified Dassault Mirage III that could be fitted with a Rolls Royce Avon engine. From Sweden, Saab offered their Draken. While from the United States, a virtual avalanche of designs were offered. From Republic Aviation, the F-105 Thunderchief was offered. From Lockheed came a proposal for their F-104 Starfighter. Vought offered three different versions of their Crusader while McDonnell Aircraft submitted their in development F4H Phantom II. Convair submitted a proposal to supply the RAAF with their F-106 Delta Dart pending government approval to export the design. The final design offered was from Grumman for their proposed Super Tiger. The work of narrowing down the options promised to be long and tiring.
Much as the fighter specification had, the bomber specification also resulted in a plethora of designs being submitted. North American offered their A3J Vigilante while McDonnell and Vought both offered modified versions of their Phantom and Crusader fighter entrants. Boeing and General Dynamics each submitted a design that was little more than speculation and doodling. Boeing concurrently offered an updated version of their B-47 subsonic bomber. Republic submitted their F-105 in a bid to fill both the fighter and bomber specification. While Convair, again subject to government approval, offered the B-58 Hustler.
The United Kingdom submitted a rough proposal from BAC for a high speed penetrator that would meet the offered specification. They also proposed supplying the Avro Vulcan, which met all the Australian requirements with the exception of speed. The final submission offered was from France who proposed supplying their Dassault Mirage IV. The Royal Australian Air Force would have their hands full for many months trying to narrow down their options.
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ssgtc
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Post by ssgtc on Oct 15, 2020 19:59:49 GMT
List of Offered Aircraft
Fighter Specification
United Kingdom
English Electric Lightning Hawker P.1121 Saunders-Roe SR.177
France
Dassault Mirage IIIO
Sweden
Saab 35 Draken
United States
Republic F-105 Thunderchief F-104 Starfighter Vought F8U-1 Crusader I Vought F8U-2 Crusader II Vought F8U-3 Crusader III McDonnell F4H-1 Phantom II Convair F-106 Delta Dart Grumman F11F-2
Bomber Specification
United Kingdom
TSR-2 Avro Vulcan
France
Dassault Mirage IV
United States
Republic F-105 Thunderchief Convair B-58 Hustler North American A3J Vigilante Boeing Unnamed tactical bomber proposal (OTL F-111 proposal) General Dynamics Unnamed tactical bomber proposal (OTL F-111 Aardvark) Boeing B-47 Stratojet McDonnell F4H-1 Phantom II Vought F8U-3
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lordroel
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Post by lordroel on Oct 15, 2020 20:14:04 GMT
List of Offered Aircraft
Fighter SpecificationUnited KingdomEnglish Electric Lightning Hawker P.1121 Saunders-Roe SR.177 FranceDassault Mirage IIIO SwedenSaab 35 Draken United StatesRepublic F-105 Thunderchief F-104 Starfighter Vought F8U-1 Vought F8U-2 Vought F8U-3 McDonnell F4H-1 Phantom II Convair F-106 Delta Dart Grumman F11F-2 Bomber SpecificationUnited KingdomTSR-2 Avro Vulcan FranceDassault Mirage IV United StatesRepublic F-105 Thunderchief Convair B-58 Hustler North American A3J Vigilante Boeing Unnamed tactical bomber proposal (OTL F-111 proposal) General Dynamics Unnamed tactical bomber proposal (OTL F-111 Aardvark) Boeing B-47 Stratojet McDonnell F4H-1 Phantom II Vought F8U-3 For the bombers i go for this lady. But then again, this one also look good.
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ssgtc
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Post by ssgtc on Oct 15, 2020 20:59:20 GMT
List of Offered Aircraft
Fighter SpecificationUnited KingdomEnglish Electric Lightning Hawker P.1121 Saunders-Roe SR.177 FranceDassault Mirage IIIO SwedenSaab 35 Draken United StatesRepublic F-105 Thunderchief F-104 Starfighter Vought F8U-1 Vought F8U-2 Vought F8U-3 McDonnell F4H-1 Phantom II Convair F-106 Delta Dart Grumman F11F-2 Bomber SpecificationUnited KingdomTSR-2 Avro Vulcan FranceDassault Mirage IV United StatesRepublic F-105 Thunderchief Convair B-58 Hustler North American A3J Vigilante Boeing Unnamed tactical bomber proposal (OTL F-111 proposal) General Dynamics Unnamed tactical bomber proposal (OTL F-111 Aardvark) Boeing B-47 Stratojet McDonnell F4H-1 Phantom II Vought F8U-3 For the bombers i go for this lady. But then again, this one also look good. TSR-2 is barely on the drawing board at this point. It's still a contender, but once the RAAF starts getting more detailed information about projected in service dates, it may be too far out
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lordroel
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Post by lordroel on Oct 16, 2020 8:26:12 GMT
For the bombers i go for this lady. But then again, this one also look good. TSR-2 is barely on the drawing board at this point. It's still a contender, but once the RAAF starts getting more detailed information about projected in service dates, it may be too far out So the TSR-2 is out of the running then, then i go for the Vulcan still and my second option would be the McDonnell F4H-1 Phantom II.
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ssgtc
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Post by ssgtc on Oct 16, 2020 9:52:21 GMT
TSR-2 is barely on the drawing board at this point. It's still a contender, but once the RAAF starts getting more detailed information about projected in service dates, it may be too far out So the TSR-2 is out of the running then, then i go for the Vulcan still and my second option would be the McDonnell F4H-1 Phantom II. Not automatically out of the running. Just that its development time will be considered as a factor. It really depends on how quickly the RAAF wants a replacement in service.
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lordroel
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Post by lordroel on Oct 16, 2020 9:55:39 GMT
So the TSR-2 is out of the running then, then i go for the Vulcan still and my second option would be the McDonnell F4H-1 Phantom II. Not automatically out of the running. Just that its development time will be considered as a factor. It really depends on how quickly the RAAF wants a replacement in service. Well i would say as fast as possible due Indonesia getting armed to the teeth with Soviet and Chinese made hardware on all fronts.
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ssgtc
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Post by ssgtc on Oct 16, 2020 11:15:56 GMT
Not automatically out of the running. Just that its development time will be considered as a factor. It really depends on how quickly the RAAF wants a replacement in service. Well i would say as fast as possible due Indonesia getting armed to the teeth with Soviet and Chinese made hardware on all fronts. Yes and no. Right now, their aircraft are at least equal to what the Indonesians are flying, so it's not extremely urgent. And while Indonesia has started to show that they just might be more competent than they've been given credit for, the RAAF and FAA both feel that the superior training of their pilots will see them win any engagement
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lordroel
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Post by lordroel on Oct 16, 2020 11:20:27 GMT
the RAAF and FAA both feel that the superior training of their pilots will see them win any engagement Why have a feeling i have heard that before.
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ssgtc
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Post by ssgtc on Oct 16, 2020 15:34:55 GMT
the RAAF and FAA both feel that the superior training of their pilots will see them win any engagement Why have a feeling i have heard that before. Because it's the same trope that every western air force used when talking about fighting Asian air forces.
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lordroel
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Post by lordroel on Oct 16, 2020 15:36:51 GMT
Why have a feeling i have heard that before. Because it's the same trope that every western air force used when talking about fighting Asian air forces. I had to think about the north Vietnamese pilot when typing this, that is why i agree, never underestimate a pilot from what ever country he comes from until you have flown against them in combat as that will determine how good they are.
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ssgtc
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Post by ssgtc on Oct 20, 2020 13:53:21 GMT
February 4, 1958 Newport News, VA
The keel of the future USS Enterprise is laid at Newport News Shipbuilding in Shipway 11. The first nuclear powered aircraft carrier in the world, she is projected to complete in late 1960 at a cost of approximately three hundred million dollars. While work commences on Enterprise, the workmen of Newport News begin preparing to lay down her sister in a little less than a year. In a first for Newport News Shipbuilding, America will be built in a graving dock and floated out upon completion instead of being built on a traditional inclined shipway.
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