lordroel
Administrator
Posts: 67,964 
Likes: 49,365
|
Post by lordroel on Feb 17, 2020 15:58:16 GMT
Do we now what names the G3s might had, in my No Washington Naval Treaty; An alternate Word War i once worked upon i had then named Saints class battlecruiser with then being named: HMS Saint Andrew, HMS Saint Patrick and HMS Saint Lucia but then i discovered that the N3-class battleship also might used those names. But i also have heard the G3s might have become the Invincible class with their names being: Invincible, Indomitable, Inflexible & Indefatigable. From the sources I have read, going back to old issues of Warship from the 1970s, the I class names are the ones with more evidence. And for the N3 class the Saints names i presume. |
|
stevep
Fleet admiral
Posts: 24,832
Likes: 13,222
|
Post by stevep on Feb 17, 2020 15:59:42 GMT
I have used the same name on there since 2007. I've never been too active on there save for my own writings and a few bursts, such as the G3 discussion of 2011/2012. Do we now what names the G3s might had, in my No Washington Naval Treaty; An alternate Word War i once worked upon i had then named Saints class battlecruiser with then being named: HMS Saint Andrew, HMS Saint Patrick and HMS Saint Lucia but then i discovered that the N3-class battleship also might used those names. But i also have heard the G3s might have become the Invincible class with their names being: Invincible, Indomitable, Inflexible & Indefatigable.
I've heard both options for the G3's but think also the saints for the N3's. Suspect the more likely of the two would be something based on the I class - which does have the option of having more than the initial 4 would I would definitely approve of. Not sure about St Lucia but have seen suggests that 4 N3's would be built and named for the 4 patron saints, i.e. Andrew, David, George and Patrick.
PS ninjied by Simon.
|
|
|
|
Post by simon darkshade on Feb 17, 2020 16:01:53 GMT
That is the indication I have read, with the caveat that such details are a bit less clear for the N3s.
|
|
lordroel
Administrator
Posts: 67,964
Likes: 49,365
|
Post by lordroel on Feb 17, 2020 16:01:58 GMT
Do we now what names the G3s might had, in my No Washington Naval Treaty; An alternate Word War i once worked upon i had then named Saints class battlecruiser with then being named: HMS Saint Andrew, HMS Saint Patrick and HMS Saint Lucia but then i discovered that the N3-class battleship also might used those names. But i also have heard the G3s might have become the Invincible class with their names being: Invincible, Indomitable, Inflexible & Indefatigable. I've heard both options for the G3's but think also the saints for the N3's. Suspect the more likely of the two would be something based on the I class - which does have the option of having more than the initial 4 would I would definitely approve of. Not sure about St Lucia but have seen suggests that 4 N3's would be built and named for the 4 patron saints, i.e. Andrew, David, George and Patrick. PS ninjied by Simon.
Four names would means also one for Ireland then. |
|
|
|
Post by simon darkshade on Feb 17, 2020 16:04:39 GMT
St. George for England, St. Andrew for Scotland, St. David for Wales and St. Patrick for Ireland are the indications I've come across, given their role as patron saints of the relevant countries.
|
|
lordroel
Administrator
Posts: 67,964
Likes: 49,365
|
Post by lordroel on Feb 17, 2020 16:06:14 GMT
St. George for England, St. Andrew for Scotland, St. David for Wales and St. Patrick for Ireland are the indications I've come across, given their role as patron saints of the relevant countries. Was Ireland not after 1920 sorta independent from the UK ore am i wrong. |
|
|
|
Post by simon darkshade on Feb 17, 2020 16:09:39 GMT
In the words of youths these days, "it's complicated". It was the middle of the Anglo-Irish War, which continued until mid 1921.
|
|
lordroel
Administrator
Posts: 67,964
Likes: 49,365
|
Post by lordroel on Feb 17, 2020 16:12:26 GMT
Okay going back to topic, looking at the N3 class battleship i wonder, if they are build, would that mean the 2 Nelson-class battleship who are described as cut-down N3s be build.
|
|
|
|
Post by simon darkshade on Feb 17, 2020 16:21:30 GMT
No, they would not be built without the WNT. Nelson and Rodney were compromise designs built to fit under 35,000 tons.
|
|
lordroel
Administrator
Posts: 67,964
Likes: 49,365
|
Post by lordroel on Feb 17, 2020 16:27:52 GMT
No, they would not be built without the WNT. Nelson and Rodney were compromise designs built to fit under 35,000 tons. So we would have 4 G3-class battlecruisers and 4 N3-class battleships for the Royal Navy. The 2 Nelson-class battleship would as you have said not be build, anymore Royal Navy ships i missed that where planned to be build but where cancelled due the Washington Naval Treaty. |
|
|
|
Post by simon darkshade on Feb 17, 2020 16:36:00 GMT
My thinking on what the RN would field:
Battlecruisers: Hood, Renown, Repulse, Tiger, Lion, Princess Royal
Battleships: 4 x G3, 4 x N3, 5 x R, 5 x QE, 4 x Iron Duke, 3 x KGV
A follow up class of 4 would replace the KGVs in the late 20s/early 30s, followed by replacement class of 6 ships for the Iron Dukes and 3 older 13.5” BCs in the mid 1930s (KGV analogue) and a further replacement class for the Rs (Lion analogue) in the late 1930s/early 1940s.
That would all depend on finance, foreign threats, political will and other requirements. Without the WNT holiday, not only will there be the “missing class” from the late 1920s, but also less of a reduction of industrial capacity.
|
|
|
|
Post by simon darkshade on Feb 17, 2020 16:36:49 GMT
No, they would not be built without the WNT. Nelson and Rodney were compromise designs built to fit under 35,000 tons. So we would have 4 G3-class battlecruisers and 4 N3-class battleships for the Royal Navy. The 2 Nelson-class battleship would as you have said not be build, anymore Royal Navy ships i missed that where planned to be build but where cancelled due the Washington Naval Treaty. The eight G3/N3 are considered as the Cherry Trees. |
|
stevep
Fleet admiral
Posts: 24,832
Likes: 13,222
|
Post by stevep on Feb 17, 2020 17:12:51 GMT
My thinking on what the RN would field: Battlecruisers: Hood, Renown, Repulse, Tiger, Lion, Princess Royal Battleships: 4 x G3, 4 x N3, 5 x R, 5 x QE, 4 x Iron Duke, 3 x KGV A follow up class of 4 would replace the KGVs in the late 20s/early 30s, followed by replacement class of 6 ships for the Iron Dukes and 3 older 13.5” BCs in the mid 1930s (KGV analogue) and a further replacement class for the Rs (Lion analogue) in the late 1930s/early 1940s. That would all depend on finance, foreign threats, political will and other requirements. Without the WNT holiday, not only will there be the “missing class” from the late 1920s, but also less of a reduction of industrial capacity.
Depending on the political situation I'm doubtful that the RN would keep the 13.5" ships, at least the BBs once the new builds were in place. If they were already scrapping all the 12" ships I can't see them keeping so many 13.5" ones while building 8 large new units. At least not unless things are very tense internationally which I suspect not in the 20's.
Personally I would prefer another 4 G3s rather than the 4N3s. They would not only provide commonality but also their higher speed would make them both strategically and tactically more useful in a future conflict.
|
|
lordroel
Administrator
Posts: 67,964
Likes: 49,365
|
Post by lordroel on Feb 17, 2020 17:13:22 GMT
So we would have 4 G3-class battlecruisers and 4 N3-class battleships for the Royal Navy. The 2 Nelson-class battleship would as you have said not be build, anymore Royal Navy ships i missed that where planned to be build but where cancelled due the Washington Naval Treaty. The eight G3/N3 are considered as the Cherry Trees. And for the United States navy it would be the 6 South Dakota-class battleships (1920) and 6 Lexington-class battlecruisers. I know about the 4 Amagi-class battlecruisers and the 2 Tosa-class battleships and 4 Kii-class battleships (did i miss any others) So what did the French and Italians cancelled because of the treaty. |
|
stevep
Fleet admiral
Posts: 24,832
Likes: 13,222
|
Post by stevep on Feb 17, 2020 17:14:55 GMT
So we would have 4 G3-class battlecruisers and 4 N3-class battleships for the Royal Navy. The 2 Nelson-class battleship would as you have said not be build, anymore Royal Navy ships i missed that where planned to be build but where cancelled due the Washington Naval Treaty. The eight G3/N3 are considered as the Cherry Trees.
I'm normally heard that as being the title for the Nelson's as they were 'cut down' from the G3 designs by the treaty.
|
|
