insect
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Post by insect on Jan 15, 2020 7:03:06 GMT
What would it take to make Australia a world player in the international stage?
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Post by simon darkshade on Jan 15, 2020 7:47:14 GMT
A lot of extra population to begin with: six more than the current 25 million, perhaps.
Feeding such would be not be a problem. We’ve got the resources and the wealth. Water would be an issue.
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James G
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Post by James G on Jan 15, 2020 8:19:13 GMT
Bigger population, highly unstable neighbours to bring about history of interference, another threatening superpower... and probably some big bombs.
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stevep
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Post by stevep on Jan 15, 2020 16:02:20 GMT
Possibly an higher technology culture which develops rather than still being largely dependent on primary products. Maybe including a broad development of assorted forms of aquaculture with farming, energy generation, housing extra? Such steps would help in increasing the political and economic power of the state as well as helping to maintain a larger population and probably also a military.
Could also have it including other areas, such as New Zealand, New Guinea, other related islands, again boosting resource and population bases and possibly some intervention in an Indonesia that either has fallen apart or never taken off. Say it helps support independence/autonomy for areas such as E Timor, possibly say Bali, Singapore etc if the region has really gone to pot. Also say establishing a friendly and welcome influence in much of Polynesia as well as Melanesia.
Probably still not going to be a superpower for more than a fleeting period as even then it's unlikely to match the population and size of areas such as the US, China, Russia, Europe and possibly India and unlikely all of them will be failed or struggling areas.
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lordroel
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Post by lordroel on Jan 15, 2020 16:06:50 GMT
Would Australia not being part of the Commonwealth also be a thing.
Also superpower Australia should include New Zeeland and Papua New Guinea.
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stevep
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Post by stevep on Jan 15, 2020 16:13:11 GMT
Would Australia not being part of the Commonwealth also be a thing. Also superpower Australia should include New Zeeland and Papua New Guinea.
A more developed and connected Commonwealth even if largely centred around the white settler dominions and some smaller areas could definitely be a claimant for superpower status but Australia would only be a part of that so would that really fit the OP base for Australia [+ probably related areas] to be a superpower itself.
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Post by simon darkshade on Jan 15, 2020 17:14:05 GMT
We don’t really rely on primary industry per se. Mining is a large export industry and agriculture is not insignificant, but it isn’t like the sea when the country rode on the sheep’s back. There was quite the strong secondary industry sector until the reforms of the 80s sounded its death knell.
NZ has never really industrialised, so doesn’t really add anything to Australia in terms of resources or capacity. PNG has resources, but nothing really vital to the sinews of power. The South Pacific islands are already part of the Australian sphere, but, again, don’t bring anything to the party.
What is it that makes a superpower?
Economic strength of at least $5 trillion
Military capacity, budgets and the will to use it
Nuclear weapons
A goodly sized population for manpower, labour, markets
A great array of resources
A continental land mass or equivalent
Hard power and influence, including on global councils
Plentiful energy
Strong political leadership
Being at the cutting edge of technology
Industrial capacity
Solid trade fundamentals
Australia has lots of these, but is handicapped by a very small population and the non-suitability of large swathes of the continent for any productive use.
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Zyobot
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Post by Zyobot on Jan 15, 2020 17:21:50 GMT
We don’t really rely on primary industry per se. Mining is a large export industry and agriculture is not insignificant, but it isn’t like the sea when the country rode on the sheep’s back. There was quite the strong secondary industry sector until the reforms of the 80s sounded its death knell. NZ has never really industrialised, so doesn’t really add anything to Australia in terms of resources or capacity. PNG has resources, but nothing really vital to the sinews of power. The South Pacific islands are already part of the Australian sphere, but, again, don’t bring anything to the party. What is it that makes a superpower? Economic strength of at least $5 trillion Military capacity, budgets and the will to use it Nuclear weapons A goodly sized population for manpower, labour, markets A great array of resources A continental land mass or equivalent Hard power and influence, including on global councils Plentiful energy Strong political leadership Being at the cutting edge of technology Industrial capacity Solid trade fundamentals Australia has lots of these, but is handicapped by a very small population and the non-suitability of large swathes of the continent for any productive use. So, I suppose in that case, the real challenge is how to massively enlarge the population and compensate for unproductive swaths of the continent? From what I'm seeing thus far, those seem to be the missing ingredients needed for this specific recipe. |
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Post by simon darkshade on Jan 15, 2020 17:26:28 GMT
Fitting in 125 million extra people would be challenging, to put it mildly. The key issue would be water, followed by radically changing the population density of the Eastern Seaboard/the area from Brisbane around to Adelaide.
The population could be higher, certainly, through steps such as the Kimberly being opened up earlier, but probably not enough for superpower level.
An inland sea could work.
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stevep
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Post by stevep on Jan 16, 2020 12:29:17 GMT
Fitting in 125 million extra people would be challenging, to put it mildly. The key issue would be water, followed by radically changing the population density of the Eastern Seaboard/the area from Brisbane around to Adelaide. The population could be higher, certainly, through steps such as the Kimberly being opened up earlier, but probably not enough for superpower level. An inland sea could work.
That last bit was one thing I was thinking as well.  There was a large inland lake/small sea in the past which might have helped but how useful that might have been as its likely to be rather salty? Or a much wetter climate possibly but that would require ASB intervention/time travel/very advanced technology and would have impacts across the world. |
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lordroel
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Post by lordroel on Jan 16, 2020 15:45:53 GMT
Fitting in 125 million extra people would be challenging, to put it mildly. The key issue would be water, followed by radically changing the population density of the Eastern Seaboard/the area from Brisbane around to Adelaide. The population could be higher, certainly, through steps such as the Kimberly being opened up earlier, but probably not enough for superpower level. An inland sea could work. Like this.  |
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stevep
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Post by stevep on Jan 16, 2020 16:04:18 GMT
Fitting in 125 million extra people would be challenging, to put it mildly. The key issue would be water, followed by radically changing the population density of the Eastern Seaboard/the area from Brisbane around to Adelaide. The population could be higher, certainly, through steps such as the Kimberly being opened up earlier, but probably not enough for superpower level. An inland sea could work. Like this. 
That's showing up as a broken link to me. Don't know about anyone else?
Suspect you mean the Lake_Eyre_basin? See map. Didn't realise some of the areas was below sea level so don't know if a canal to flood it would be practical or how large the resulting lake would be? Plus probably some fairly dramatic ecological impacts. Plus reading a bit more of the link there would need to be a lot of water flowing to simply exceed evaporation.
Steve
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lordroel
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Post by lordroel on Jan 16, 2020 16:07:35 GMT
Like this.
That's showing up as a broken link to me. Don't know about anyone else? Suspect you mean the Lake_Eyre_basin? See map. Didn't realise some of the areas was below sea level so don't know if a canal to flood it would be practical or how large the resulting lake would be? Plus probably some fairly dramatic ecological impacts. Plus reading a bit more of the link there would need to be a lot of water flowing to simply exceed evaporation. Steve
Have change the link, can you see it now, ore do i need to search for a bigger inner sea. |
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stevep
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Post by stevep on Jan 17, 2020 11:44:39 GMT
That's showing up as a broken link to me. Don't know about anyone else? Suspect you mean the Lake_Eyre_basin? See map. Didn't realise some of the areas was below sea level so don't know if a canal to flood it would be practical or how large the resulting lake would be? Plus probably some fairly dramatic ecological impacts. Plus reading a bit more of the link there would need to be a lot of water flowing to simply exceed evaporation. Steve
Have change the link, can you see it now, ore do i need to search for a bigger inner sea.
OK can see that now. Sorry about the delay but got gaming yesterday. If that would be viable, i.e. all that area is below sea level so a link to the ocean would flood it then, while damaging to the current ecology it could probably moderate the climate a lot and enable markedly more people to be viably supported in Australia.
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lordroel
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Post by lordroel on Jan 17, 2020 11:46:37 GMT
Have change the link, can you see it now, ore do i need to search for a bigger inner sea. OK can see that now. Sorry about the delay but got gaming yesterday. If that would be viable, i.e. all that area is below sea level so a link to the ocean would flood it then, while damaging to the current ecology it could probably moderate the climate a lot and enable markedly more people to be viably supported in Australia.
Then what if this was how Australia would look like, its a 1827 map of Australia and depicts a 'Great River' and a 'Supposed Sea' that both proved nonexistent, so could this help Australia in the long run.  |
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There was a large inland lake/small sea in the past which might have helped but how useful that might have been as its likely to be rather salty? Or a much wetter climate possibly but that would require ASB intervention/time travel/very advanced technology and would have impacts across the world.