stevep
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Post by stevep on Nov 22, 2019 11:44:05 GMT
‘Xi Jinping To 1949 Mao Zedong’. I imagine that the PRC may very well be better off with a more sane and economically literate chairman at the helm ITTL—however tyrannical he may still be by Western, liberal-democratic standards.
Well definitely more economically literate. Have to wait a while to see about sane as Xi is starting to look rather Maoist in his ego and lust for power. 
I wonder how he would handle the Korean war. Probably intervene as OTL but might not stay fighting as long before agreeing to negotiation. He might also be willing to go along with Khrushchev in denouncing Stalin as a way of winning over moderates to some levels of reform or he might want to take Mao's hard line route to secure his position as the leader of hard line communism.
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Zyobot
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Post by Zyobot on Nov 22, 2019 14:24:28 GMT
‘Xi Jinping To 1949 Mao Zedong’. I imagine that the PRC may very well be better off with a more sane and economically literate chairman at the helm ITTL—however tyrannical he may still be by Western, liberal-democratic standards.
Well definitely more economically literate. Have to wait a while to see about sane as Xi is starting to look rather Maoist in his ego and lust for power.
I wonder how he would handle the Korean war. Probably intervene as OTL but might not stay fighting as long before agreeing to negotiation. He might also be willing to go along with Khrushchev in denouncing Stalin as a way of winning over moderates to some levels of reform or he might want to take Mao's hard line route to secure his position as the leader of hard line communism.
Hmm, interesting predictions. Even though I concur that Xi is likely to consolidate his own power and maintain his hold as much as possible, might he seriously contemplate adopting Deng Xiaoping’s economic reforms early as to give China an early boost? Either way, I’m guessing that he’s not nearly deranged or overzealous enough to implement the Great Leap Forward again, at least the iteration that Mao oversaw. And I’d guess the same would apply to OTL Cultural Revolution. |
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stevep
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Post by stevep on Nov 22, 2019 18:29:04 GMT
Well definitely more economically literate. Have to wait a while to see about sane as Xi is starting to look rather Maoist in his ego and lust for power.
I wonder how he would handle the Korean war. Probably intervene as OTL but might not stay fighting as long before agreeing to negotiation. He might also be willing to go along with Khrushchev in denouncing Stalin as a way of winning over moderates to some levels of reform or he might want to take Mao's hard line route to secure his position as the leader of hard line communism.
Hmm, interesting predictions. Even though I concur that Xi is likely to consolidate his own power and maintain his hold as much as possible, might he seriously contemplate adopting Deng Xiaoping’s economic reforms early as to give China an early boost? Either way, I’m guessing that he’s not nearly deranged or overzealous enough to implement the Great Leap Forward again, at least the iteration that Mao oversaw. And I’d guess the same would apply to OTL Cultural Revolution.
Hopefully not but then like Mao his primary concern was maintaining his own [monopoly] power and that seems to have been the basis for the Cultural Revolution for instance. Mao cared less for its impact on China than that it enabled him to isolate and remove from power the people who had largely sidelined him after the Great Leap Backwards.
He could try something like Deng's reforms a bit earlier although it really needed the disastrous results of communism, and possibly the threat of a return under the gang of 4, to persuade the party hierarchy that such reforms were necessary. As such it might need some sort of problems 1st, although if he is wise enough he would seek to get something like that in.
I'm basing my opinion on the way he seems to have bypassed the sort of checks and balances that Deng and the others brought in from ~1980 to gain a centralisation of power which seems to be reaching Mao type levels, as well as an intent to be emperor for life. Coupled with the corruption, of all sorts, that such a position almost always brings.
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Zyobot
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Post by Zyobot on Nov 23, 2019 19:05:35 GMT
‘1978 Baby Boomers To 2008’. I wonder how the 2008 election will turn out with all of the downtimer Boomers having been sent to the twenty-first century, among a host of other things.
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Zyobot
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Post by Zyobot on Nov 25, 2019 2:29:07 GMT
‘2004 GW Bush SI To 1964 LBJ’.
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Zyobot
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Post by Zyobot on Nov 26, 2019 15:23:12 GMT
‘Back in the USSA America, Britain And Russia To OTL 1980’. The Cold War has just taken a game-changing turn, I can tell you that much.
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lordroel
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Post by lordroel on Nov 26, 2019 15:25:27 GMT
‘ Back in the USSA America, Britain And Russia To OTL 1980’. The Cold War has just taken a game-changing turn, I can tell you that much. China of OTL might need to worry a bit, seems that the Russian Empire of Back in the USSA America is that universe version of OTL United Kingdom, but then a lot bigger. |
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Zyobot
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Post by Zyobot on Nov 26, 2019 15:33:00 GMT
‘ Back in the USSA America, Britain And Russia To OTL 1980’. The Cold War has just taken a game-changing turn, I can tell you that much. China of OTL might need to worry a bit, seems that the Russian Empire of Back in the USSA America is that universe version of OTL United Kingdom, but then a lot bigger. Good point. Was the PRC not already on the way to adopting capitalistic reforms, though, or am I mistaken? Because maybe a liberal-democratic Russia’s presence would encourage it to do so out of concern for its own safety—maybe also the pro-human rights, pro-checks and balances legislation that we didn’t get by opening up trade with China IOTL. Eastern European communist states are probably screwed as well, not only due to the new Russia containing much of their lands within its own territory, but also because of possible occupation or at least pressure to cease with their socialism. There’s also the newly ISOTed UK, which—if I’m correct—presides over a surviving, superpower British Empire that serves as the premier champion of liberal-democratic capitalism rather than America (which is it’s TL’s main communist strongman). |
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lordroel
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Post by lordroel on Nov 26, 2019 15:44:11 GMT
China of OTL might need to worry a bit, seems that the Russian Empire of Back in the USSA America is that universe version of OTL United Kingdom, but then a lot bigger. Good point. Was the PRC not already on the way to adopting capitalistic reforms, though, or am I mistaken? Because maybe a liberal-democratic Russia’s presence would encourage it to do so out of concern for its own safety—maybe also the pro-human rights, pro-checks and balances legislation that we didn’t get by opening up trade with China IOTL. Eastern European communist states are probably screwed as well, not only due to the new Russia containing much of their lands within its own territory, but also because of possible occupation or at least pressure to cease with their socialism. There’s also the newly ISOTed UK, which—if I’m correct—presides over a surviving, superpower British Empire that serves as the premier champion of liberal-democratic capitalism rather than America (which is it’s TL’s main communist strongman). Do not know, also i do not see what China in the USSA universe is, but if it is located next to the Russian Empire then it might be something like France ore Germany. |
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Zyobot
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Post by Zyobot on Nov 26, 2019 20:32:15 GMT
Good point. Was the PRC not already on the way to adopting capitalistic reforms, though, or am I mistaken? Because maybe a liberal-democratic Russia’s presence would encourage it to do so out of concern for its own safety—maybe also the pro-human rights, pro-checks and balances legislation that we didn’t get by opening up trade with China IOTL. Eastern European communist states are probably screwed as well, not only due to the new Russia containing much of their lands within its own territory, but also because of possible occupation or at least pressure to cease with their socialism. There’s also the newly ISOTed UK, which—if I’m correct—presides over a surviving, superpower British Empire that serves as the premier champion of liberal-democratic capitalism rather than America (which is it’s TL’s main communist strongman). Do not know, also i do not see what China in the USSA universe is, but if it is located next to the Russian Empire then it might be something like France ore Germany. Yeah, I'm not quite sure how Back in the USSA China is faring, either. However, this DeviantArt member named QuantumBranching speculated how such a world might look (albeit with some of his own amendments to the storyline). Here's the actual map they devised, if you're interested:  |
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Zyobot
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Post by Zyobot on Nov 28, 2019 21:51:09 GMT
‘2019 Western US To 1979’.
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Zyobot
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Post by Zyobot on Nov 30, 2019 17:54:21 GMT
'WI People Didn't Need To Eat?'
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Zyobot
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Post by Zyobot on Dec 1, 2019 18:35:58 GMT
How about an ‘Anarcho-Capitalist Asia-Pacific’? I believe I suggested that in my reverse Cold War thread from a while ago, which no one seemed to comment on all that much. Which is weird, considering how far out there an Asia that embraces stateless, laissez-faire markets and the non-aggression principle probably is.
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Zyobot
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Post by Zyobot on Dec 2, 2019 19:34:26 GMT
‘2020 Eastern Europe To 1950’. Boy, how I can imagine that the Kremlin would like to be greeted by a Warsaw Pact that has done a one-eighty by adopting capitalism and representative government. And is now armed with technology and military capabilities seventy years ahead of the USSR’s own.
How the uptimers get along with their liberal-neighbors, as well as the United States at this time, ought to generate its own share of ripple effects going forwards. It does, however, seem that NATO has made itself some new friends.
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stevep
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Post by stevep on Dec 2, 2019 19:49:28 GMT
‘2020 Eastern Europe To 1950’. Boy, how I can imagine that the Kremlin would like to be greeted by a Warsaw Pact that has done a one-eighty by adopting capitalism and representative government. And is now armed with technology and military capabilities seventy years ahead of the USSR’s own. How the uptimers get along with their liberal-neighbors, as well as the United States at this time, ought to generate its own share of ripple effects going forwards. It does, however, seem that NATO has made itself some new friends.
That could get scary. The new eastern Europe is a good way ahead technologically and will have some western forces in place as well presumably while the Soviets have lost not only their buffer but a lot of their front line forces. However force levels in the ISOT area, compared with ~1950 levels are very small, as they are in much of western Europe. I suspect Stalin won't be very happy and you could well see some sort of attempt to 'restore order' which is likely to lead to a wider clash. The Soviets will lose in the end I suspect, especially given a western/allied nuclear monopoly but it could be messy.
After this things again get chaotic as the newcomers inform everybody how things developed in their TL. The idea of all the social changes to come as well as the shift of economic power to post-Mao China will be a shock to the west while the 'future' of China is going to have impacts there.
If its in 1950 then if not already under way you could see a communist invasion of S Korea, which in this case with a crisis, if not all out war in Europe could initially succeed but then lead to a bigger clash after the situation in Europe is resolved.
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