stevep
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Post by stevep on Jan 12, 2020 12:57:04 GMT
'2012 Western US To 1972'.
Pretty much the usual chaos and disorder. Possibly increased by it being the height of the cold war and the fact that a black President standing for re-election [or at least that would have been the plan if Obama doesn't come along] is potentially countered by a Nixon who -depending on the date - is about to/already has organised the Watergate bugging. If its not occurred yet the 2012 west has prove of something the President intended, which he may well deny, and there are serious moral and legal complications here.
As well as the cold war the US involvement in protecting S Vietnam is pretty much at its height but is likely to be quickly curtailed as I can't see the 2010 west US, who would be needed for most of the support for it, giving it any backing.
An additional impact on 'history' is that if he's in location then the Governor of Califiornia in 1972, one R Regan, has disappeared.
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Zyobot
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Post by Zyobot on Jan 14, 2020 20:58:03 GMT
'2004 Western US To 1984', with President George W. Bush and his cabinet also coming along for the ride to represent uptimer America. Beyond the typical shock and awe of an en-masse time travel ISOT, having two Republican presidents potentially running for reelection would make for quite an interesting race. There would, of course, be Democrats who run as well, but Dubya and Gipper competing for the GOP nomination would be quite a match-up.
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Zyobot
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Post by Zyobot on Jan 16, 2020 0:48:13 GMT
'Mitt Romney SI To Barack Obama On January 1st, 2013'.
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lordroel
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Post by lordroel on Jan 16, 2020 3:50:02 GMT
'Mitt Romney SI To Barack Obama On January 1st, 2013'. As always, that will be a shock to the person and the people around him.
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Zyobot
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Post by Zyobot on Jan 16, 2020 16:48:16 GMT
'Mitt Romney SI To Barack Obama On January 1st, 2013'. As always, that will be a shock to the person and the people around him. True. Maybe while we're at it, Obama should wake up in Romney's body as well so that Romney's body doesn't become a corpse and Obama's consciousness doesn't dissolve into oblivion. In a way, though, I suppose that Romney has gotten what he wants--but with the caveat that he now has to pose as Obama, become accustomed to life in the White House and probably compromise or downplay his inevitably more right-wing policies to avoid raising too many eyebrows.
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lordroel
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Post by lordroel on Jan 16, 2020 16:51:46 GMT
As always, that will be a shock to the person and the people around him. True. Maybe while we're at it, Obama should wake up in Romney's body as well so that Romney's body doesn't become a corpse and Obama's consciousness doesn't dissolve into oblivion. In a way, though, I suppose that Romney has gotten what he wants--but with the caveat that he now has to pose as Obama, become accustomed to life in the White House and probably compromise or downplay his inevitably more right-wing policies to avoid raising too many eyebrows. While still remain married to his new/old wife.
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Zyobot
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Post by Zyobot on Jan 16, 2020 16:53:40 GMT
True. Maybe while we're at it, Obama should wake up in Romney's body as well so that Romney's body doesn't become a corpse and Obama's consciousness doesn't dissolve into oblivion. In a way, though, I suppose that Romney has gotten what he wants--but with the caveat that he now has to pose as Obama, become accustomed to life in the White House and probably compromise or downplay his inevitably more right-wing policies to avoid raising too many eyebrows. While still remain married to his new/old wife. He'd most likely have to, to preserve optics and avoid a deluge of sensationalist media attention when it's probably the last thing he needs. Because so long as these outlets are invested in his divorce case, what else could they pick up about "Obamney's" eyebrow-raising new quirks?
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Zyobot
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Post by Zyobot on Jan 17, 2020 22:07:48 GMT
'2009 George W. Bush To 1999'. As in, Dubya the night after ceding the presidency to Barack Obama wakes up as his younger self on January 1st, 1999--giving him time to kick off his first presidential campaign and potentially revise how he goes about doing so. Maybe he'll try to win both the electoral and popular vote this time around so that his win is still perceived as indisputable by even the strongly anti-Electoral College elements of the country.
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stevep
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Post by stevep on Jan 18, 2020 10:24:01 GMT
Try a British one. What if James Callaghan, from say the late 1990's but anyway before his death in 2005 was restored to his 1978 body with full knowledge of events to come? I suspect at the very least instead of his stupid 'waiting at the church' statement he goes for an election in the autumn and very likely wins. Which of course means he has to deal with the winter of discontent although he will have foreknowledge of it and also being the Labour leader might have less problems with the unions. It should at least prevent Thatcherism rising to power for a few years, so that with North Sea Oil coming in it might be used more constructive rather than paying for mass unemployment.
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lordroel
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Post by lordroel on Jan 18, 2020 10:32:39 GMT
Try a British one. What if James Callaghan, from say the late 1990's but anyway before his death in 2005 was restored to his 1978 body with full knowledge of events to come? I suspect at the very least instead of his stupid 'waiting at the church' statement he goes for an election in the autumn and very likely wins. Which of course means he has to deal with the winter of discontent although he will have foreknowledge of it and also being the Labour leader might have less problems with the unions. It should at least prevent Thatcherism rising to power for a few years, so that with North Sea Oil coming in it might be used more constructive rather than paying for mass unemployment. How would he deal with the Falklands, in OTL he had the Royal Navy in 1977 do Operation Journeyman, if he stays on as PM in 1982, and he knows what will happen, will he do a second Operation Journeyman.
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stevep
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Post by stevep on Jan 18, 2020 10:56:29 GMT
Try a British one. What if James Callaghan, from say the late 1990's but anyway before his death in 2005 was restored to his 1978 body with full knowledge of events to come? I suspect at the very least instead of his stupid 'waiting at the church' statement he goes for an election in the autumn and very likely wins. Which of course means he has to deal with the winter of discontent although he will have foreknowledge of it and also being the Labour leader might have less problems with the unions. It should at least prevent Thatcherism rising to power for a few years, so that with North Sea Oil coming in it might be used more constructive rather than paying for mass unemployment. How would he deal with the Falklands, in OTL he had the Royal Navy in 1977 do Operation Journeyman, if he stays on as PM in 1982, and he knows what will happen, will he do a second Operation Journeyman.
I suspect he would as it worked before and it might well work again. Although if he avoided Thatcher's cuts to the RN - which he might well do based both on the desire to maintain employment in related industries and because he knows it 'happened' OTL - then the regime might well be deterred from making any such attack. If not the RN is likely to be in a better condition to respond. Possibly 'knowing' that no Soviet attack occurs - although he will have to consider butterflies - there are some cuts in the army to balance the military budget instead although without Thatcher's tax cuts and forced mass unemployment there should be less stress on the budget.
Of course if the regime in Argentina is desperate enough they might still try something although it could be against Chile rather than Britain given the disputes over their southern border. With both countries being right wing military dictatorships that could require some careful handling by the US.
If Thatcher didn't become PM would it affect things much in the US? She was seen as a new style type of hard right politician and in some ways a forerunner for Reagan so is it possibly that he isn't the Republican candidate. Or possibly Callaghan is able to influence Carter enough in some way that the Terhan hostage crisis is avoided although that could be difficult.
Of course if Labour wins in 1978, which seemed very likely at the time and with a bit of foreknowledge on his part the still likely Labour split is with the hard left breaking away to form its own socialist party instead of the moderates forming the SDP as OTL. Probably means that Labour has at least some time out of power in the 80's but is likely to be less damaging to them overall. The Liberals will make markedly less progress. A Tory government elected in say 83/84 is likely to be less extreme than Thatcher was, due to a more moderate Labour and the defeat in 78 so you could have the continuation of the post-war consensus for a longer period. Hopefully it will be reforming rather than reactionary. There were definite needs for changes but not in the backwards and highly destructive direction that Britain went under Thatcher and her successors.
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lordroel
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Post by lordroel on Jan 18, 2020 10:59:21 GMT
How would he deal with the Falklands, in OTL he had the Royal Navy in 1977 do Operation Journeyman, if he stays on as PM in 1982, and he knows what will happen, will he do a second Operation Journeyman. I suspect he would as it worked before and it might well work again. Although if he avoided Thatcher's cuts to the RN - which he might well do based both on the desire to maintain employment in related industries and because he knows it 'happened' OTL - then the regime might well be deterred from making any such attack. If not the RN is likely to be in a better condition to respond. Possibly 'knowing' that no Soviet attack occurs - although he will have to consider butterflies - there are some cuts in the army to balance the military budget instead although without Thatcher's tax cuts and forced mass unemployment there should be less stress on the budget. Of course if the regime in Argentina is desperate enough they might still try something although it could be against Chile rather than Britain given the disputes over their southern border. With both countries being right wing military dictatorships that could require some careful handling by the US. If Thatcher didn't become PM would it affect things much in the US? She was seen as a new style type of hard right politician and in some ways a forerunner for Reagan so is it possibly that he isn't the Republican candidate. Or possibly Callaghan is able to influence Carter enough in some way that the Terhan hostage crisis is avoided although that could be difficult. Of course if Labour wins in 1978, which seemed very likely at the time and with a bit of foreknowledge on his part the still likely Labour split is with the hard left breaking away to form its own socialist party instead of the moderates forming the SDP as OTL. Probably means that Labour has at least some time out of power in the 80's but is likely to be less damaging to them overall. The Liberals will make markedly less progress. A Tory government elected in say 83/84 is likely to be less extreme than Thatcher was, due to a more moderate Labour and the defeat in 78 so you could have the continuation of the post-war consensus for a longer period. Hopefully it will be reforming rather than reactionary. There were definite needs for changes but not in the backwards and highly destructive direction that Britain went under Thatcher and her successors.
What was his stance on Defense, cuts ore keeping it as it was.
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stevep
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Post by stevep on Jan 18, 2020 11:26:36 GMT
I suspect he would as it worked before and it might well work again. Although if he avoided Thatcher's cuts to the RN - which he might well do based both on the desire to maintain employment in related industries and because he knows it 'happened' OTL - then the regime might well be deterred from making any such attack. If not the RN is likely to be in a better condition to respond. Possibly 'knowing' that no Soviet attack occurs - although he will have to consider butterflies - there are some cuts in the army to balance the military budget instead although without Thatcher's tax cuts and forced mass unemployment there should be less stress on the budget. Of course if the regime in Argentina is desperate enough they might still try something although it could be against Chile rather than Britain given the disputes over their southern border. With both countries being right wing military dictatorships that could require some careful handling by the US. If Thatcher didn't become PM would it affect things much in the US? She was seen as a new style type of hard right politician and in some ways a forerunner for Reagan so is it possibly that he isn't the Republican candidate. Or possibly Callaghan is able to influence Carter enough in some way that the Terhan hostage crisis is avoided although that could be difficult. Of course if Labour wins in 1978, which seemed very likely at the time and with a bit of foreknowledge on his part the still likely Labour split is with the hard left breaking away to form its own socialist party instead of the moderates forming the SDP as OTL. Probably means that Labour has at least some time out of power in the 80's but is likely to be less damaging to them overall. The Liberals will make markedly less progress. A Tory government elected in say 83/84 is likely to be less extreme than Thatcher was, due to a more moderate Labour and the defeat in 78 so you could have the continuation of the post-war consensus for a longer period. Hopefully it will be reforming rather than reactionary. There were definite needs for changes but not in the backwards and highly destructive direction that Britain went under Thatcher and her successors.
What was his stance on Defense, cuts ore keeping it as it was.
Must admit that I don't know the details. Labour tended to push for more defence cuts but as I say Thatcher cut the navy pretty savagely in her 1st few years. Things could change with Callaghan's foreknowledge, plus the resources available as the North sea enters large scale production but he's also limited by political possibilities. I would suspect that defence cuts in such a TL might be a bit deeper than OTL. The most dangerous thing is that even a moderate Labour might be pushed into not replacing Polaris although if the centre holds there should be enough of a political consensus to get some form of Trident produced. [The CND fanatics will of course kick up a storm and do the usual lies about it but they should still be defeated, hopefully more completely with a stronger centre in British politics.]
The big thing is that without the Thatcher slump in the 80's there should be a fair bit more money around and also more social cohesion and national identity. A fair bit more will be spent on trying to revive elderly industries, which is only likely to work in a few cases and on infrastructure spending, which is overall going to be a lot more effective. At the same time we're not going to have things like the financial deregulation which enabled the fiscal system to virtually monopolise influence in Parliament and make massive amounts of money for itself, generally at the expense of the bulk of the population. Your likely to see some deregulation and privatisation but less then OTL. Britain is likely to maintain more of a mixed economy and better living standards for most of the population - presuming no drastic disasters. If/when there are equivalents of the 2008 crash Britain is likely to suffer a lot less as the financial sector won't have the same death grip on the economy and political power/influence. Overall without the shocks of the 80's you might have a more socially conservative Britain but not necessarily so. All very difficult to tell what will happen over 40+ years.
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Zyobot
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Post by Zyobot on Jan 19, 2020 13:31:42 GMT
‘2050 Australia To 1950’. Maybe it can give NATO a hand in the Korean War once it regathers its bearings.
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stevep
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Post by stevep on Jan 19, 2020 15:48:26 GMT
‘2050 Australia To 1950’. Maybe it can give NATO a hand in the Korean War once it regathers its bearings.
That of course assumes that 2050 Australia is still a predominantly western looking democratic state.
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