Real time Discusion thread

stevep
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Real time Discusion thread Nov 19, 2021 11:07:27 GMT lordroel likes this

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Post by stevep on Nov 19, 2021 11:07:27 GMT

lordroel ,

On today's WWI thread you have a detailed report on the capture of Monastir but a few sections further down you have another section headed "Macedonian front" with a couple of sentences, one of which is about the capture of Monastir so there's a duplication.

Further down on the post there is a section on the costs of the battle of the Somme for the RFC

The maintenance of air superiority has come at a high cost though. 972 aircraft have been lost either destroyed or missing, though 173 were rebuilt and used again. 222 aircrew have been killed, 151 wounded and 132 taken prisoner. An additional 268 were put out of action by accidents.

Just to clarify is that additional 268 were a/c or people. Assuming the former but not clear as the details on crew losses are between this and the earlier details on a/c losses.

On today's WWII post you have

The Red Army unleashed Operation Uranus, a counter-attack on the German Forces at Stalingrad causing total surprise and mayhem. The attack was planned in strict secrecy by Zhukov and was aimed initially at the weakest links in the Axis positions - The Romanian forces north and south of the city. The attacking Soviet units under the command of General Nikolai Vatutin consisted of 3 complete companies, the 1st Guards Army, 5th Tank Army and 21st Army, including a total of 18 infantry divisions, 8 tank brigades, 2 motorized brigades, 6 cavalry divisions and 1 anti-tank brigade.

I suspect that should be armies?

- Or possibly considering the comments below the map, fronts?

Near the bottom of the post you have.

NEW GUINEA CAMPAIGN

In Papua New Guinea, forward elements of the Australian 25th Brigade, Maroubra Force, encounter the Japanese 1 mile S of Gona while the Australian 16th Brigade, Maroubra Force, makes contact with the Japanese just outside Soputa. After establishing contact with Australians near Popondetta, the 126th Infantry Regiment, U.S. 32d Infantry Division, heads for Buna hut, since the Japanese appear to be concentrated west of the Girua River, and is directed to assist Major General George A. Vasey's Australian 7th Division instead. Major General Edwin Harding, Command General 32d Infantry Division, thus loses half his assault force; the left flank of Task Force Warren is left exposed. The 1st and 3d Battalions of the 128th Infantry Regiment, Warren Force, attack in parallel columns, the 1st Battalion from Boero and the 3d Battalion from Simemi. Both meet accurate Japanese fire from concealed positions and suffer heavy casualties; a maximum gain of 200 yards is made on right along the coast.

Think there's a small typo here and that should be but rather than hut.

Steve

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Real time Discusion thread Nov 19, 2021 11:15:27 GMT stevep likes this

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Post by lordroel on Nov 19, 2021 11:15:27 GMT

Nov 19, 2021 11:07:27 GMT stevep said:

lordroel ,

On today's WWI thread you have a detailed report on the capture of Monastir but a few sections further down you have another section headed "Macedonian front" with a couple of sentences, one of which is about the capture of Monastir so there's a duplication.

Further down on the post there is a section on the costs of the battle of the Somme for the RFC

The maintenance of air superiority has come at a high cost though. 972 aircraft have been lost either destroyed or missing, though 173 were rebuilt and used again. 222 aircrew have been killed, 151 wounded and 132 taken prisoner. An additional 268 were put out of action by accidents.

Just to clarify is that additional 268 were a/c or people. Assuming the former but not clear as the details on crew losses are between this and the earlier details on a/c losses.

On today's WWII post you have

The Red Army unleashed Operation Uranus, a counter-attack on the German Forces at Stalingrad causing total surprise and mayhem. The attack was planned in strict secrecy by Zhukov and was aimed initially at the weakest links in the Axis positions - The Romanian forces north and south of the city. The attacking Soviet units under the command of General Nikolai Vatutin consisted of 3 complete companies, the 1st Guards Army, 5th Tank Army and 21st Army, including a total of 18 infantry divisions, 8 tank brigades, 2 motorized brigades, 6 cavalry divisions and 1 anti-tank brigade.

I suspect that should be armies?

- Or possibly considering the comments below the map, fronts?

Near the bottom of the post you have.

NEW GUINEA CAMPAIGN

In Papua New Guinea, forward elements of the Australian 25th Brigade, Maroubra Force, encounter the Japanese 1 mile S of Gona while the Australian 16th Brigade, Maroubra Force, makes contact with the Japanese just outside Soputa. After establishing contact with Australians near Popondetta, the 126th Infantry Regiment, U.S. 32d Infantry Division, heads for Buna hut, since the Japanese appear to be concentrated west of the Girua River, and is directed to assist Major General George A. Vasey's Australian 7th Division instead. Major General Edwin Harding, Command General 32d Infantry Division, thus loses half his assault force; the left flank of Task Force Warren is left exposed. The 1st and 3d Battalions of the 128th Infantry Regiment, Warren Force, attack in parallel columns, the 1st Battalion from Boero and the 3d Battalion from Simemi. Both meet accurate Japanese fire from concealed positions and suffer heavy casualties; a maximum gain of 200 yards is made on right along the coast.

Think there's a small typo here and that should be but rather than hut.

Steve

That is a lot of stuff i need to edit it seems, dam the trolls have broken a record for most stuff to be edit in one update.

This is my mod color, when its this color, you know

stevep
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Real time Discusion thread Dec 10, 2021 13:52:23 GMT lordroel likes this

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Post by stevep on Dec 10, 2021 13:52:23 GMT

lordroel ,

One point please on today's WWII post.

Eastern Front

The German's counterattack at Belyi succeeded in cutting off the Soviet's 41st Army, destroying the only success Zhukov had enjoyed in Operation 'Mars'. Little ground is gained at Rzhev by the small German counterattack. Despite the failure of his operation, he doggedly ordered fresh formations thrown into the meat grinder ay Rhzev.

Is that referring to Zhukov or the German commander of the counter attack at Rzhev? Suspect the former but its unclear and could be either.

Steve

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Real time Discusion thread Dec 10, 2021 14:23:11 GMT stevep likes this

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Post by lordroel on Dec 10, 2021 14:23:11 GMT

Dec 10, 2021 13:52:23 GMT stevep said:

lordroel ,

One point please on today's WWII post.

Eastern Front

The German's counterattack at Belyi succeeded in cutting off the Soviet's 41st Army, destroying the only success Zhukov had enjoyed in Operation 'Mars'. Little ground is gained at Rzhev by the small German counterattack. Despite the failure of his operation, he doggedly ordered fresh formations thrown into the meat grinder ay Rhzev.

Is that referring to Zhukov or the German commander of the counter attack at Rzhev? Suspect the former but its unclear and could be either.

Steve

A thanks for the sporting, will edit Zhukov name into the it.

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Real time Discusion thread Dec 19, 2021 16:49:57 GMT lordroel likes this

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Post by stevep on Dec 19, 2021 16:49:57 GMT

lordroel ,

On today's WWII post you have :

Battle of the Mediterranean

While escorting a convoy to Benghazi, Libya, the British corvette HMS 'Snapdragon' is bombed and sunk off Bizerte, Tunisia, by German aircraft.

North African campaign

Rain curtailed most aerial operations in Tunisia, although A-20s and DB-7s, with fighter escort, hit the marshalling yards at Sfax. A Ju 88 was destroyed by US 33rd FG P-40s near Sfax. Escorting a convoy to Benghazi, the corvette 'Snapdragon' was bombed and sunk off the port by German aircraft.

Sounds like the troll composing the post really, really didn't like poor Snapdragon.

Otherwise looks fine.

Steve

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Real time Discusion thread Dec 19, 2021 17:00:58 GMT stevep likes this

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Post by lordroel on Dec 19, 2021 17:00:58 GMT

Dec 19, 2021 16:49:57 GMT stevep said:

lordroel ,

On today's WWII post you have :

Battle of the Mediterranean

While escorting a convoy to Benghazi, Libya, the British corvette HMS 'Snapdragon' is bombed and sunk off Bizerte, Tunisia, by German aircraft.

North African campaign

Rain curtailed most aerial operations in Tunisia, although A-20s and DB-7s, with fighter escort, hit the marshalling yards at Sfax. A Ju 88 was destroyed by US 33rd FG P-40s near Sfax. Escorting a convoy to Benghazi, the corvette 'Snapdragon' was bombed and sunk off the port by German aircraft.

Sounds like the troll composing the post really, really didn't like poor Snapdragon.

Otherwise looks fine.

Steve

Seems you are right stevep, the troll in question will as punishment go to a medieval eye doctor.

In the mean time i will edit it myself.

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stevep
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Real time Discusion thread Dec 20, 2021 10:54:18 GMT

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Post by stevep on Dec 20, 2021 10:54:18 GMT

lordroel ,

On today's WWI post most of it looks OK but it starts off with:

Western Front: Falkenhayn Proposes Battle of Attrition at Verdun

With the exception of a brief gas attack at Ypres in the past week, the German Army in December 1915 had sat idle on the Western Front since May, content to hold off British and French attacks while it battered Russia and Serbia in the East. But Erich von Falkenhayn, the Chief-of-Staff, had only ever grudgingly given support to the Eastern Front upon the success of his commanders there. He felt that the war could only be finished in the West. On December 20, he proposed a plan to the Kaiser.

The city of Verdun was chosen by Louis XIV’s brilliant military engineer the Marquis de Vauban as the vital linchpin of the French border. In 1792 it held up the Prussian Army on the way to Paris for two days; its fall caused panic and massacre in revolutionary Paris. In 1870 it had capitulated to the Prussians after a six-week siege. In 1914, when Joffre ordered the Socialist General Maurice Sarrail to withdraw from Verdun as part of his wider plan, Sarrail had refused, believing Verdun was still the key to guarding the border. Throughout 1915, the Germans had been entrenched only ten miles away from the center of the town, but Joffre had continually stripped the fortresses guarding Verdun of their heavy guns and their trained garrisons.

Falkenhayn planned to make Verdun the German Army’s main objective for 1916. But his plan had little to say about Verdun’s strategic importance. What Falkenhayn wanted to do, as he confided in the Crown Prince’s Chief of Staff on a train at Montmedy, was to “bleed France white”. This would be a battle of attrition from start to finish. The Crown Prince was disquieted when he heard the plan. The Kaiser, on the other hand, was enthusiastic. He, like Falkenhayn, felt confident the war would end at Verdun.

I think this is out by a year as this was his plan in late 1915 for 1916. - Has one of the trolls hit the brandy before they used the time machine.

On today's WWII post you have:

Air War over Europe

101 B-17s and B-24s of the USAAF were sent to bomb the Luftwaffe servicing base at Romilly-sur-Seine near Paris, 100 miles further inland than any other target attacked by the Allies. 12 Squadrons of RAF and USAAF Spitfires escorted the bombers but turned back near Rouen. After the escorts left, the bomber formations were intercepted by nearly 200 Fw 190s from the 3 Gruppen of JG 26 and III./JG 2 who attacked head-on. The US 91st BG endured nearly one hour of attacks from III./JG 26 and lost 2 B-17s. Lt. Stammberger of 9./JG 26, attacking with Hptm. Egon Mayer's III./JG 2, watched as a B-17's rear section broke off and flipped end over end to the ground. Lt. Stammberger then attacked a B-17 from the 397th BS and destroyed it;

Possibly this should be "attacked by the Americans" as Bomber Command has been hitting targets deep into Germany and even N Italy? It would fit with the problem of the escort having turned back and the Luftwaffe then being able to swamp them. Surprising how durable the big bombers were under such conditions so full merit to their designers and the brave men aboard them.

Steve

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Real time Discusion thread Dec 20, 2021 19:03:12 GMT

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Post by lordroel on Dec 20, 2021 19:03:12 GMT

Dec 20, 2021 10:54:18 GMT stevep said:

lordroel ,

On today's WWI post most of it looks OK but it starts off with:

Western Front: Falkenhayn Proposes Battle of Attrition at Verdun

With the exception of a brief gas attack at Ypres in the past week, the German Army in December 1915 had sat idle on the Western Front since May, content to hold off British and French attacks while it battered Russia and Serbia in the East. But Erich von Falkenhayn, the Chief-of-Staff, had only ever grudgingly given support to the Eastern Front upon the success of his commanders there. He felt that the war could only be finished in the West. On December 20, he proposed a plan to the Kaiser.

The city of Verdun was chosen by Louis XIV’s brilliant military engineer the Marquis de Vauban as the vital linchpin of the French border. In 1792 it held up the Prussian Army on the way to Paris for two days; its fall caused panic and massacre in revolutionary Paris. In 1870 it had capitulated to the Prussians after a six-week siege. In 1914, when Joffre ordered the Socialist General Maurice Sarrail to withdraw from Verdun as part of his wider plan, Sarrail had refused, believing Verdun was still the key to guarding the border. Throughout 1915, the Germans had been entrenched only ten miles away from the center of the town, but Joffre had continually stripped the fortresses guarding Verdun of their heavy guns and their trained garrisons.

Falkenhayn planned to make Verdun the German Army’s main objective for 1916. But his plan had little to say about Verdun’s strategic importance. What Falkenhayn wanted to do, as he confided in the Crown Prince’s Chief of Staff on a train at Montmedy, was to “bleed France white”. This would be a battle of attrition from start to finish. The Crown Prince was disquieted when he heard the plan. The Kaiser, on the other hand, was enthusiastic. He, like Falkenhayn, felt confident the war would end at Verdun.

I think this is out by a year as this was his plan in late 1915 for 1916. - Has one of the trolls hit the brandy before they used the time machine.

On today's WWII post you have:

Air War over Europe

101 B-17s and B-24s of the USAAF were sent to bomb the Luftwaffe servicing base at Romilly-sur-Seine near Paris, 100 miles further inland than any other target attacked by the Allies. 12 Squadrons of RAF and USAAF Spitfires escorted the bombers but turned back near Rouen. After the escorts left, the bomber formations were intercepted by nearly 200 Fw 190s from the 3 Gruppen of JG 26 and III./JG 2 who attacked head-on. The US 91st BG endured nearly one hour of attacks from III./JG 26 and lost 2 B-17s. Lt. Stammberger of 9./JG 26, attacking with Hptm. Egon Mayer's III./JG 2, watched as a B-17's rear section broke off and flipped end over end to the ground. Lt. Stammberger then attacked a B-17 from the 397th BS and destroyed it;

Possibly this should be "attacked by the Americans" as Bomber Command has been hitting targets deep into Germany and even N Italy? It would fit with the problem of the escort having turned back and the Luftwaffe then being able to swamp them. Surprising how durable the big bombers were under such conditions so full merit to their designers and the brave men aboard them.

Steve

Seems i need to fix my trolls mistakes, again, will edit it out, thanks for the spotting as always stevep.

This is my mod color, when its this color, you know

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Real time Discusion thread Dec 21, 2021 13:55:06 GMT

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Post by stevep on Dec 21, 2021 13:55:06 GMT

Dec 20, 2021 19:03:12 GMT lordroel said:

Dec 20, 2021 10:54:18 GMT stevep said:

lordroel ,

On today's WWI post most of it looks OK but it starts off with:

I think this is out by a year as this was his plan in late 1915 for 1916. - Has one of the trolls hit the brandy before they used the time machine.

On today's WWII post you have:

Possibly this should be "attacked by the Americans" as Bomber Command has been hitting targets deep into Germany and even N Italy? It would fit with the problem of the escort having turned back and the Luftwaffe then being able to swamp them. Surprising how durable the big bombers were under such conditions so full merit to their designers and the brave men aboard them.

Steve

Seems i need to fix my trolls mistakes, again, will edit it out, thanks for the spotting as always stevep .

No problem. Your doing a huge task with those projects and they provide a good basic history of the conflicts. Just helping with the odd point where something slips through the cracks.

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Real time Discusion thread Dec 21, 2021 14:27:53 GMT

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Post by stevep on Dec 21, 2021 14:27:53 GMT

lordroel ,

Just noticed I think you misunderstood what I said about yesterday's WWI post. Your changed the date I highlighted from 1915 to 1916 but that wasn't the problem. The issue was that this was his plan in Dec 1915 for the following year, i.e. a big battle of attrition around Verdun. I.e. its already occurred and has only recently finished as you reported with Nivelle's apparent successes in its last stages a few days back.

I.e. the problem is that the section shouldn't be in the post for 20-12-1916 as it was probably already posted a year earlier, which was the correct date for it.

Sorry for any confusion.

Steve

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Real time Discusion thread Dec 21, 2021 14:57:34 GMT stevep likes this

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Post by lordroel on Dec 21, 2021 14:57:34 GMT

Dec 21, 2021 14:27:53 GMT stevep said:

lordroel ,

Just noticed I think you misunderstood what I said about yesterday's WWI post. Your changed the date I highlighted from 1915 to 1916 but that wasn't the problem. The issue was that this was his plan in Dec 1915 for the following year, i.e. a big battle of attrition around Verdun. I.e. its already occurred and has only recently finished as you reported with Nivelle's apparent successes in its last stages a few days back.

I.e. the problem is that the section shouldn't be in the post for 20-12-1916 as it was probably already posted a year earlier, which was the correct date for it.

Sorry for any confusion.

Steve

A seems I made a mistake as a troll, I will edit it.

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Real time Discusion thread Dec 25, 2021 22:07:01 GMT lordroel and Zyobot like this

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Post by stevep on Dec 25, 2021 22:07:01 GMT

lordroel ,

In today's WWII post there is a duplicate.

CAPE ST. GEORGE, NEW BRITAIN

Submarine Seadragon (SS-194) damages Japanese transport Nankai Maru off Cape St. George, New Britain, 05°05'S, 152°28'E; escorting destroyer Uzuki, after depth-charging Seadragon (and claiming destruction of her quarry) is then damaged in collision with the damaged Nankai Maru. Despite enemy optimism, Seadragon emerges unscathed from her adventure.

OFF THE COAST OF CAPE ST. GEORGE, NEW BRITAIN

Submarine Seadragon (SS-194) damages Japanese transport Nankai Maru off Cape St. George, New Britain, 05°05'S, 152°28'E; escorting destroyer Uzuki, after depth-charging Seadragon (and claiming destruction of her quarry) is then damaged in collision with the damaged Nankai Maru. Despite enemy optimism, Seadragon emerges unscathed from her adventure.

Steve

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Real time Discusion thread Dec 25, 2021 22:08:09 GMT via mobile stevep likes this

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Post by lordroel on Dec 25, 2021 22:08:09 GMT

Dec 25, 2021 22:07:01 GMT stevep said:

lordroel ,

In today's WWII post there is a duplicate.

CAPE ST. GEORGE, NEW BRITAIN

Submarine Seadragon (SS-194) damages Japanese transport Nankai Maru off Cape St. George, New Britain, 05°05'S, 152°28'E; escorting destroyer Uzuki, after depth-charging Seadragon (and claiming destruction of her quarry) is then damaged in collision with the damaged Nankai Maru. Despite enemy optimism, Seadragon emerges unscathed from her adventure.

OFF THE COAST OF CAPE ST. GEORGE, NEW BRITAIN

Submarine Seadragon (SS-194) damages Japanese transport Nankai Maru off Cape St. George, New Britain, 05°05'S, 152°28'E; escorting destroyer Uzuki, after depth-charging Seadragon (and claiming destruction of her quarry) is then damaged in collision with the damaged Nankai Maru. Despite enemy optimism, Seadragon emerges unscathed from her adventure.

Steve

Thanks for the spotting as always, will edit it.

This is my mod color, when its this color, you know

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Real time Discusion thread Dec 27, 2021 12:24:39 GMT lordroel likes this

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Post by stevep on Dec 27, 2021 12:24:39 GMT

lordroel , & all

On today's WWI post

United States: Colonel House Arranges Secret Telegram Channel for German Ambassador

Despite the German government’s cool reception to Wilson’s peace note, the German Ambassador in Washington, Count Bernstorff, was very much in favor, and hoped to get his government to send Wilson their peace terms. Bernstorff knew a failure of the peace initiative would lead to a resumption of the submarine campaign, which would in turn lead to American entry into the war.

Part of German Foreign Minister Zimmermann’s reluctance to deal with the Americans, as he would tell Bernstorff, was “American indiscreetness and intermeddling.” Bernstorff, meeting with Wilson’s advisor Col. House on December 27, attempted to find a solution that would decrease both of these. Wilson proposed that he would limit himself to bringing the belligerents together and organizing a league of nations, and would stay out of the negotiations for the peace, as long as Germany would tell him their proposed terms, in confidence. Bernstorff liked this idea, but was worried as to how the peace terms would make their way from Zimmermann to Wilson in complete confidence; using normal American State Department channels (i.e. through the American Embassy in Berlin) was not acceptable “because there were so many leaks there.”

House proposed that Zimmermann could use the State Department’s telegraph cable to send messages to Bernstorff, in German code, preventing prying eyes at the State Department from reading their contents. Wilson signed off on this measure the next day.

Secretary of State Lansing was infuriated by this arrangement. Not only was he being cut out of the negotiations altogether, this arrangement violated America’s duties as a neutral country. America was allowed to keep her cable from Berlin to Washington (via Allied countries) because they were being used to conduct their own diplomatic business, not Germany’s. Although it was intended for the purpose of transmitting peace aims, there was no way of knowing what the Germans would actually transmit. Lansing would have to be personally ordered by the President to allow the messages to be sent every time Bernstorff wanted to send or receive a message from Berlin.

Now what could go wrong with that. Its not as if the Germans would abuse this privilege to do something stupid is it?

Steve

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Real time Discusion thread Dec 27, 2021 14:52:31 GMT

Quote

Post by lordroel on Dec 27, 2021 14:52:31 GMT

Dec 27, 2021 12:24:39 GMT stevep said:

lordroel , & all

On today's WWI post

United States: Colonel House Arranges Secret Telegram Channel for German Ambassador

Despite the German government’s cool reception to Wilson’s peace note, the German Ambassador in Washington, Count Bernstorff, was very much in favor, and hoped to get his government to send Wilson their peace terms. Bernstorff knew a failure of the peace initiative would lead to a resumption of the submarine campaign, which would in turn lead to American entry into the war.

Part of German Foreign Minister Zimmermann’s reluctance to deal with the Americans, as he would tell Bernstorff, was “American indiscreetness and intermeddling.” Bernstorff, meeting with Wilson’s advisor Col. House on December 27, attempted to find a solution that would decrease both of these. Wilson proposed that he would limit himself to bringing the belligerents together and organizing a league of nations, and would stay out of the negotiations for the peace, as long as Germany would tell him their proposed terms, in confidence. Bernstorff liked this idea, but was worried as to how the peace terms would make their way from Zimmermann to Wilson in complete confidence; using normal American State Department channels (i.e. through the American Embassy in Berlin) was not acceptable “because there were so many leaks there.”

House proposed that Zimmermann could use the State Department’s telegraph cable to send messages to Bernstorff, in German code, preventing prying eyes at the State Department from reading their contents. Wilson signed off on this measure the next day.

Secretary of State Lansing was infuriated by this arrangement. Not only was he being cut out of the negotiations altogether, this arrangement violated America’s duties as a neutral country. America was allowed to keep her cable from Berlin to Washington (via Allied countries) because they were being used to conduct their own diplomatic business, not Germany’s. Although it was intended for the purpose of transmitting peace aims, there was no way of knowing what the Germans would actually transmit. Lansing would have to be personally ordered by the President to allow the messages to be sent every time Bernstorff wanted to send or receive a message from Berlin.

Now what could go wrong with that. Its not as if the Germans would abuse this privilege to do something stupid is it?

Steve

No, the Germans are saints, they would never be that stupid to send something somebody might intercept and use against them.

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Post by stevep on Nov 19, 2021 11:07:27 GMT

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